@GrizzlyTrollton said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

Recognizing that America has a pretty filthy history is "hate speech". Got it. All he can do is ask for it's removal. He can't demand it with any effectiveness. He has no power in this situation. You merely want the mods to silence him. Is he advocating for the genocide of Americans? I don't remember reading any of that in his post. You people are literally acting ridiculous over this. That's why the reaction is comical.

Every country has a pretty filthy history. Learn from it and move on.

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

It seems pretty fitting for a 4th of July celebration. It's not really trying to make a political statement, it's just what Japanese devs thought would be fitting for a 4th of July event.

Does the intent matter?

Yes.

@zaffy2005 said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Princesse-Jen Pretty much my reaction, too. Like their entire research "process" involved typing "Murica" into a Reddit search and based all their conclusions on the memes that popped up. Buddy of mine and I always joke about how meme-worthy Japanese interpretations of other cultures tend to be. Now, to be fair, the same can be said of pretty much any and every other culture trying to mimic another. Without true, lived experience (or at least a ton of research into those who have it) all anyone really has to work with is stereotypes and generalizations. Which leaves us with the choice of getting butthurt over it, or just laughing at how absurdly ridiculous it is.

Yeah, as stated before this stuff was in the game all they way back in 2012 and was made by the Japanese developers. They probably thought it would be a nice gesture for US players.

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

how brainwashed do you have to be to see a giant statue of liberty and go "hmm, nothing political here", lmao

It seems pretty fitting for a 4th of July celebration. It's not really trying to make a political statement, it's just what Japanese devs thought would be fitting for a 4th of July event.

@uponapyre said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Morgothryuzaki Politics are entwined with vidogames... with everything.

No they're not. They only become entwined when people try to force them to be entwined.

@KLB600 said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Doam-Burger

tying an MMO to the real world in such a way that they've done has always been a bad idea. Other MMO's celebrate the 4th with fireworks or tie it to an ingames nation of freedom when you tie it to the real world you bring in real world problems.

Most MMO's also don’t have you fighting the YAMAMOTO in a Gundam/mecha and being transported into an alternate universe to find out that what you have been infect playing is an MMO now do they?

I don't understand why people bring up this example of "Most MMO's" or "Staying Consistent with the lore." When PSO2 and SEGA JP have already made it apparent that they are not operating by the conventions set by "Most MMO's." The problem is you people keep looking at this point in a vacuum.

1. The reason why most MMO's Don't do this, is because most MMO's are Asian games so its Asia market first with Westerners usually being an after thought. PSO2 doesn’t seem to be of this mind so its quite appreciative.

2. Most MMO's are trying to stick with a consistency within their ingame lore , that’s why most will substitute Ingame symbolism for real world iconography. PSO2 however does not take its self seriously, its incredibly tongue in cheek, it completely breaks the 4th wall with Episode 4. If you go into a game knowing you are going to be predisposed to this, then at this point taking offense is no ones fault but your own.

3. Sega are operating on a region by region bases, they want each region to have its own set identity. And I for one think this is nothing but a good thing. I am confused why people are apt for the same rigid boring cookie cutter experience that "Most MMO's" have been giving for over 2 decades?

Any arguments over lore and realism should be thrown out the window with this scene:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPQAeeSN848&t=42m30s

@Pulptenks said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@DDDDLife said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

Its really sad How they want to run these Forums as if it were Facebook or something. One persons opinion matters, While others is just taken by the wayside, even though it is the MAJORITY!

Yet what's funny for real is while all this nonsense is allowed. GM send me messaged because I stated opinions.

Like moderate one way, or don't at all.

Honestly this thread should have just been locked a long time ago.

@Doam-Burger said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

The game itself is the one who brought politics into itself you don't see events like this in any other MMO for a very clear reason. Thus its very short sided to be bashing someone for bringing politics in when the game itself is the one breaking the rule. So people are free to express themselves as for feedback from the GM's tying an MMO to the real world in such a way that they've done has always been a bad idea. Other MMO's celebrate the 4th with fireworks or tie it to an ingames nation of freedom when you tie it to the real world you bring in real world problems. You also damage the community splitting it between those who who follow blindly without thought and those that question which is also bad because it galvanzes a side into bashing any type of feedback.

PSO has had real world holidays in it all the way back to the Dreamcast games. If I remember correctly there was even a 4th of July lobby on Gamecube, Xbox, and Blue Burst. This event and it's data has been in PSO2 since it came out in Japan in 2012. It was just never activated for the Japanese servers.

This was just the Japanese devs saying "Hey we've put in data for all these Japanese centric holidays and events, so let's be nice and give the US players something too." If I remember correctly there's also data in the game for holidays like Thanksgiving and what not.

@Legacy2610

@Nuebot said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

Yes that book is political, that doesn't mean all books are political. And if you think Episode 4 is going to be political then you're in for a disappointment.

Then provide me with an example of something with zero political message, because PSO2 is already about a military force (the arks) and any military is, I'm afraid to say, political.

Ok here's Episode 4's story for you, please tell me the political message from it:

• lol, the game is real and we want you to investigate these oddly behaving ARKZ who are just random noobs playing PSO2
• OMG the one player on Earth had her character come to life! Let's treat him like a little brother so we have that nice Oniichan/Oneechan dynamic.
• Xion's clone (Mother) was dumped on the moon years ago and is trying to use Earth as her personal army to get revenge on the Photoners.
• OMG our little brother is actually Dark Falz.
• Oh hey the one character is having an Evangelion Moment and has come out of her depression and now has a power up!
• But it was useless as Mother kidnapped our little brother and merged with him to become Mother Brain.
• You team up with this group called Earth Guide being lead by a man called Adam to take out Mother Brain.
• You defeat Mother Brain.
• Surprise! Mother Brain was actually the good guy! The bad guy was Adam who has now become God.
• God decides to reset earth.
• God sends you back to Naberius because you're not from Earth and it would be cruel to reset you.
• Hey you know how Earth people got on the ARKZ ship through PSO2? What if we use PSO2 to get back to Earth!
• You pop out of one of the character's PS Vita and through the power of love and friendship you kill God.
• The End.
• Epilogue you get to fight this creepy smiling but well endowed god lady for bragging points.

Now, is there really a deep political message in that or is it just nonsensical Anime Tropes strung together for entertainment? Also notice how I didn't mention the Yamato, it's because it's so insignificant to the plot that it's not even worth mentioning.

@Nuebot said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

Oh this lazy cop out. Again no, not everything is political even in this example. Toliets for example weren't made to make a political statement, nor do you make one by buying one.

I literally said as such, perhaps you should read before responding. Because when you buy a toilet your money goes somewhere. Kohler, for example, one of the top toilet manufacturers has been under fire for discriminatory hiring practices, labor violations and environmental regulation issues. When you buy a Kohler - it's a support of them and what they do. So yes, even buying a toilet is a political actions. Just because you are ignorant doesn't mean the rest of the world is, and it doesn't mean anything is "forced" because you've never seen it before.

No that's you injecting politics into it. When I buy a toilet my thought isn't "What are the political views of the person who made this toilet?". It's "does this toilet have the flushing power to deal with all the crap I'm gonna literally throw at it?

@Nuebot said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

They're a necessity, not a political statement.

Except necessities are an entirely political subject. Housing and shelter, education, food and nutrition, sanitation and employment: these are some of the most political subjects possible. People take toilets for granted because they're often used to them just being there as a permanent fixture but it's a very real fact that many people even in America can't afford them or their city has no real sanitation budget or infrastructure and simply won't do anything to help them so simply going out and buying a toilet won't help either. So yes, basic human necessities (even toilets) are in fact, political too.

Not what I meant by necessity. By necessity I meant they weren't made to be political in nature, they were invented out of necessity. They weren't created to stimulate a discussion on the politics of fecal matter disposal. They were created as a cleaner way for us to poop. Nothing political there.

Any politics you get from your toliet are politics you put in it.

@Nuebot said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

And then there's another aspect your forgetting since you clearly think everything is purchased and comes from a store. What if I didn't buy those items? What if I made them out of necessity?

It's pretty hard to think of a necessity that would require you to make your own toilet that wasn't somehow the fault of infrastructure, to be frank. Perhaps a master toiletsmith who lived in isolation with no vehicle for travel and no internet to order one, yet somehow had functional plumbing but their toilet broke. But generally speaking if you're making something out of necessity then yeah that's a sign that the system is failing. Which is, unsurprisingly, a political matter.

Ever hear of a septic tank?

@Nuebot said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

What if I made them out of necessity?

No, I'm just making these things because they're nice to have and can make my life easier and more comfortable.

You just contradicted yourself flat out, I think I'm done replying.

You clearly missed the point being made.

@Nuebot said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

Art is about expression. That expression doesn't have to be political in nature. You saying all art is political is just you trying to force politics into things regardless of whether it's there or not.

Do you think Animal Farm was just a funny book about clever pigs? Please, find me an example of a work of art with zero political message, engagement, involvement or stance.

Yes that book is political, that doesn't mean all books are political. And if you think Episode 4 is going to be political then you're in for a disappointment.

@Nuebot

Capitalism is, in fact, political, yes. Consumerism is political. Products made, the choices made to buy them - entering into those systems even the choice of which brand to buy and why are all, on some level, political even if the choice comes down to mechanical specs vs. price or buying the cheapest most affordable one because one doesn't make enough money to buy a more preferable model. It doesn't have to be a grand statement to be political, but even the tactic engagement in the exchange of capital is a silent approval or acceptance.

Oh this lazy cop out. Again no, not everything is political even in this example. Toliets for example weren't made to make a political statement, nor do you make one by buying one. They were simply made as a clean way to dispose of our excrement. They're a necessity, not a political statement. And then there's another aspect your forgetting since you clearly think everything is purchased and comes from a store. What if I didn't buy those items? What if I made them out of necessity? Am I making a political statement when I make them? No, I'm just making these things because they're nice to have and can make my life easier and more comfortable.

Not everything is political. It only becomes political when pseudo-intellectuals like yourself try to make it political.

@Nuebot said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

Everything isn't political. It only becomes political if you force politics into it.

All art is political

Art is about expression. That expression doesn't have to be political in nature. You saying all art is political is just you trying to force politics into things regardless of whether it's there or not.

@Nuebot said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

Everything created by human hand is political.

So by that logic the following is political:

• The Chair your butt is sitting in right now
• Your toilet
• The food you eat
• Your Television Set
• Your computer
• Your house
• Your Washer and Dryer
• Your dishwasher
• Your car
• Your bed

Do you really want to stick to that silly idea or do you want to back up on that one a bit? I think we can all agree it's a bit silly to see politics in your toilet or your washing machine.

If I remember correctly the data for the 4th of July lobbies was in the Japanese client back in 2012 when the game came out. It was just never used in Japan. I think there's a few other US holiday lobbies in the game as well.

This was literally just the Japanese developers noticing the Non-Japanese player base for once and putting something in the game for us that they thought we'd like.

For an actual legitimate complaint about this event though, could someone at Sega at least try to get the music to properly loop in the lobbies instead of just repeating the whole track with a silent pause at the end of each loop? The track is from Phantasy Star Universe and you guys had properly looping versions of it for that game. PSO2 still uses ADX last I checked, so couldn't you guys just lift one of the properly looping ADX files from PSU and stick it in PSO2?

@Nuebot said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

No it doesn't. They're just settings and inanimate objects.

Except they're not. Symbols have meaning for a reason or else they wouldn't be used. The Yamato was chosen because of what it is and what it represents, or else they would have made up a fictional battle ship and called it something else. The stars and stripes were used because of what it is and what it represents, or else they would have made up a fictional flag for a fictional country and called it something else. The idea that things exist purely in a political void is a falsehood because everything - every piece of media - is political in some way, shape or form. People don't just "create politics" my dude; things aren't either political or not, you seem to think things are only political when they don't align with your political spectrum - but that's the thing. Everything is political and things don't stop being so when people aren't actively disagreeing with one another.

Even outside of episode 4 the game's story doesn't shy away from themes and concepts brought about by its creator's political and world views, as every work of fiction is. The game doesn't suddenly "get" political because one person takes issue with one event: it always was and always will be, willful ignorance isn't much of an excuse to demand other people stop talking about a subject.

If you think Episode 4 is going to be about politics then you're in for a disappointment. Episode 4 is nothing but a nonsensical roller coaster ride of anime tropes and nonsense. There's no symbolism or deeper meaning in it's story whatsoever. The Yamato isn't even that big of a deal in the plot and it's barely mentioned beyond "Oh hey this nerd made us fight a battleship."

Everything isn't political. It only becomes political if you force politics into it.

@SleeprunnerInc said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@SleeprunnerInc said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@TrekkiesUnite The GM's take in to consideration every single thing we say more or less.

Telling someone to get a thicker skin is not good feedback.

It's perfectly fine feedback in this context.

@SleeprunnerInc said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

Why post?

For attention?

That's the OP.

Not really mate.

It's quite childish for the most part.

And I'm pretty sure the GM would agree on that part as that's not really discussing the topic but just trying to tell them to shut up.

The topic itself is inherently loaded and flawed. It's entire purpose is to stir up drama and give the OP attention. It's for this reason that there's nothing to discuss and it should have just been thrown out.