Haha triggers goes brrrrr.
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Haha triggers goes brrrrr.
@Kamil118 You can run any content of any difficulty and compare contrast with and without. In my previous comment which I mentioned for you to run PD or Deus because they drop in large amount due to the set base loot the devs put up for them and also how much RDR% affects the drop amount which makes it easier to discern.
To clarify another thing, boss have a base drop count, it's technically correct that it will roll meseta if all categories fail, BUT this only happens if the drop amount is expected to go lower than the base drop count.
Which means if something like Loser on Normal for example, has a base drop quantity of 10, you will never get below 10 guaranteed drops without any boost. But with RDR, you can get a fluctuated amount of drop because the base has the RDR% added its formula and which gives a potential amount of based on the %. The amount will roll but you'll never see it being more than the potential amount and less than the base.
With daily boosts/prem/trig lead (which provides boost), you won't ever have 0% RDR unless you never gotten any of these. But it's possible to still make the observations.
To my interpretation, they already have the profound weapon. They're trying to confirm whether or not "Profound Rifle Ambixion" is the starting weapon. Otherwise they wouldn't be mentioning of Starquake series and the idea of augmenting it after all, so that they don't waste meseta starting on the wrong one.
Though @Jman I forgot to mention that when you go and click on the exchange, the exchange menu should have told them what Profound series weapon that's needed to enable it.
You're emphasizing on the process in which Satori already mentioned in when you're actually doing the exchange. But I don't believe that's what the OP is even asking. Though it definitely helps since the process of upgrading to Trialblazer series is the same as when you make any progressive endgame anyways. By using the actual weapon for that series as it has SSA slots and affix it, and have it as the main item for exchange.
A big tip is that with level, the meseta will eventually flow in. It's more or less expected that you should try to learn the mechanics of the game or have someone guide you.
Once you reach SH contents, you'll begin to have easier accessibility to excubes, which you can stock up. Gear-wise, the market right now is cheap and abundant enough that even a newbie can easily take advantage of, especially because 13* +35 fodders are affordable, there's even Ivlida units (usually accessible around level 48~51 depending on class) you can buy to invest in for the future as it is a progressive set (meaning it has upgrade tiers and higher upgrade options soon), not to mention the bonus atk/hp/pp it gives. For anyone new, the goal should be to reach XH contents, and use whatever you can get your hands on. Then gear up enough that you can clear XH contents at an adequate level.
It's more of the case that you lack the knowledge and guidance of how people make their meseta and also efficient ways people can mitigate costs or reduce time spent on X or Y.
Some of the ways people can start off making money is through alts, characters has their own gathering energy/co's/missions. This means you can use multiple characters (for free players it's a total of 3 characters), to makes use of the meseta from dailies/weeklies and also investing in gathering to make money out of rings.
There's a multitude of methods provided for even new players to make money. It's a matter of asking around and finding it.
There are also strategies used when affixing that mitigates the costs. While it takes time to plan, it's something that helps in the overall affix process.
@YagyuChan more or less, the person in question is misconstruing the entire notion of: Intended implementation that had shortsighted because of a particular quest, this being the Elder quest not balanced appropriately to prevent the situation at hand.
There's a reason why JP had their triggers locked behind SG. So when people saw triggers announced to be released in badge shop, it was free real estate because the triggers was exactly the same as the EQ.
@Kamil118 you dismissed that when the drop mechanics initiates rolling it rolls through all the categories until it hits one and if none passes you get nothing! Which is why drops have a variable differences in amount and can be inconsistent but the gap difference is minimal that when drops are gauged, it generally averages out accordingly.
I did established previously that bosses have a base loot that is affected by the multiplier of rdr. But have tried making the observations with and without boosts?
Quest specific drop you’re referring to are the guaranteed/chance items you get from clearing. Such as rising badges or an event specific drop, such as specific seasonal gears. This was a mechanic implemented after XH was release (which is post ep 4 era). It’s entirely separate from what normal drops are and is not counted in the normal loot category but can be affected by rdr depending on the item and enemy. I know you’re just repeating what you read but thoroughly try to understand what is being mentioned.
Giving an example, PD solo, you will be given union booster drop upon clear but this is an item separate from the loot table as it is the quest specific item you can gain from it which for PD is guaranteed. It is not inclusive towards the amount of possible rolls you get from the normal loot table count. It’s decided by the quest as difficulty affects its rates and quantity you gain from clearing.
That's an entirely different company/platforms which handles their issues differently. SE is more strict and by the book when it comes to their contents while SEGA is more laidback on most things. On the basis of how players in XIV get banned is irrelevant in which how SEGA judges players in PSO2 at what point where a ban should be enforced.
I find it more appropriate to use examples in PSO2 itself that has happened or concurrent in which SEGA handed out bans or didn't. Such as players using multiple accounts to abuse meseta gains, this is still something that has been a factor in the inflation of the market from the start, yet SEGA isn't banning or enforcing people not to do it. Since each account holds up to 2m+ from weeklies and daily offer 300~500k, this doesn't even account the drops, etc... The average multi-account with mules, players literally earns millions doing this just running dailies/weekles and going back and funding their main accounts via shop. Yet, there aren't rarely anything regarding people doing this getting banned in the numbers.
Usually, if it's something that affects the game both financially like how duping is, then SEGA will hand out bans.
I just want to clarify something here after reading this whole thread and see it not being brought up (unless I missed it in my skim). The deciding factor here is that this particular Elder Trigger didn't have to be done at XH+ for 100k~200k raw meseta and the return of 3-4 RWB1's per person per clear, at the cost of 8 RWB1's per host.
It was N difficulty, where practically everyone is able to kill Elder in under 1~5 seconds if we disregard the 30s teleporter countdown, that gave that much, there was no need to even do it at XH, and that IMO was the main issue.
To clarify things, I never stated or mention anything about running Elder on XH, and am well aware of the method in how people farmed him as it’s been talked about since triggers were announced. I only initially listed other possible and established methods people had for meseta that are also unlimited and already stated that I’m not implying these methods are better. So my point in even mentioning all these things in my initial post is to give implication that it’s just method in the same stature as these. Since the OP gave an exaggerated amount since clears on normal or even hard have a low base, to even get that amount per run on these difficulties requires the individual to stack other boosts that aren’t usually accessible through common means (such as weapons that utilizes multiple meseta boosts, ex boosts, etc,).
You can just refer to what uber said which explains regarding Elder method in the other thread similar to this:
No. It wasn't INSANELY broken, it was just a decent source of meseta that went infinite. It doesn't constitute a ban at all, but it does deserve to be fixed. It already has contributed to inflation based on market prices at the moment, just imagine what would have happened if bots found out.
@SeriPSO2 What I was talking about is step 7 of the drop rolling. It mentions that boss drops have 100% success rates on meseta drops when all other rolls fail. This means that when you kill a boss it will always have the same number of drops, including the meseta crystal drops and random items, which you can count to get how many items the boss drops. The issue with my statement was the fact, that XH quest have a separate drop table that's independent of the regular drop table which might not have 100% meseta drop rate. In this case you can't just count the number of items on the ground, since there is a chance that some drops might fail the meseta roll. I admitted to being wrong, but your reasoning for me being wrong is nonsense.
So what part exactly? If you feel that what I said is nonsense, point it out and make a sound argument against it.
Also to clarify meseta aren’t set to 100% in on any difficulty’s loot table, for XH and difficulties beyond that, it’s just set to a much lower probability to give other items more frequency of dropping. Hence why I say it’s more rare in XH and higher, but you will get it depending on the XH in rare occasion.
It’s been established already that all difficulties have their own drop table (just check quest records or even quest window if you feel compell that this is not true). Which is why you get different drop types to start with, for example, how there’s more availability of 10s and possibly 11~12 as you get to SH or getting specific gears starting from that difficulty and higher, etc.
The reason it stated XH and higher have their separate rules is because of their drop table consisting of what I already explained earlier, the chances of other items like weapons, units, capsules, or misc other than meseta being rolled are much higher than normal, in addition to higher rarities having higher probability being rolled on instead of lower rarities with RDR active. Some contents offer the ability to drop specific items such as weapon stones like Dragon or the upcoming Persona which could only be obtained in XH or higher difficulties.
Again, it’s not as if you cannot test it out yourself...You can run Elder on XH and see how similar the drop are, you will still get meseta being rolled but it’ll have less occurrence than on difficulty like VH. Or run any EQ content where you can fight bosses, and gauge it yourself. With and without RDR on, the concept of loot drop is still the same while its rules apply when rolling. And you yourself already provided evidence here when you ran PD by explaining your drops. You still rolled meseta, but instead of 1~9* weapons/units/misc being more common, it’s more 10s and 11~12weapons being the majority.
What are you getting at...? It literary just says "rare drop rate 2.5 times." Yes, when you use rare drop rate 150% your drop rate increases to 250%. That's 2.5 times rare drop rate.
It’s reference to the possible quantity too.
Look, if you’re just still going to continue to argue without even testing it yourself. Then it’s better off not even going further with this as you’re arguing on grounds you haven’t even understood in the first place. These conditions to test RDR effect in terms of quantity and types of drop isn’t difficult to demonstrate and anyone with access to boosts can replicate it.
Just run solo PD or Deus who are bosses that are known for being a pinata. Turn off auto-collect for meseta, do runs with and without boost (which is possible via drink menu) then compare. You’ll see units (possibly meseta too) and lower weapon rarities being more frequent without, while with boosts up, they’ll be more higher weapons in higher frequency. It’s also evident by how many cubes you’ll also get on average running with and without boosts.
So if you’re still going to keep arguing without making the observation first so that you can see for yourself, then this discussion isn’t going anywhere. As it’s very apparent to see the differences with or without boosts and how impactful it is in terms of drop,
@SeriPSO2 said in broken meseta farming nerf when?: The issue here is that RWB4 badges aren't limiting in the slightest, just like meseta is a non-issue when it comes to identifying items. Both of these are available in abundance to anyone who played the game for 2 hours. I would be honestly surprised if you played the game for more than 10 minutes a day for the last 2 months and didn't have 200 RWB4 badges laying in your storage if you haven't actively thrown them away.
You’re apparently not understanding or comprehending when I refer to something having its limiting factor. I’m referring to the notion in which something or an an activity has a constraint that can limit or restrict accessibility.
So in this case, limiting factors are the currencies used for specific things, passes for XQ, and badges for trigs. You’re too caught up in a single word that again, you miss the point. Though like said before, just because they have a limiting factor does not mean there isn’t a way the devs have absolutely limiting it as they provided ways players can do to offset it.
So the idea to bring up badge 4 and how they so far has handed those out is irrelevant to what I’m even talking about, as this is a reference to a concept. As it doesn’t disprove the notion that these trigs are still require badges to even do them (unless you leech).
Alright, i admit my mistake here. I was relying on this information https://pso2.swiki.jp/index.php?ドロップ条件まとめ which sources itself to article in famitsu in from august 2012. You can read there that boss enemies always will never fail to not roll meseta as loot. However i now read the whole thing and in クエスト固有ドロップ section, right at the end, it says that XH drops don't follow this rule, as it has additional stage completion drops, so I might have not seen the maximum possible amount of drops.
Meseta will be rolled nonetheless depending on the content as not all XH quests have the same rates on their loot tables and this will be more apparent in future release, XH just has lesser chance of raw meseta and favor more towards units, weapon, or capsules/misc, but it’s not to say that you won’t get raw meseta drops but it becomes a rare instance rather than a common one.
Yeah, 500% rdr isn't a lot, but that's what most f2p can afford outside pso2 day. All else I can think of is 10% RDR from the alliance tree and using 100% triboost instead of 50%, but at the same time you don't have free 50% ex triboost from turkey avialable all the time, so... 510% rdr is what you can get as f2p most of the time. 610% during pso2 day. So, back to how I did my run:
Before starting the run I emptied my inventory from all items that weren't consumables and all meseta. In total, i picked up around 60k meseta from the ground, all unidentifed items and all 10* or higher items. After identification I had 26 10* weapons and 11 12* ones. I converted the 10*\ ones into grinders and sold them, and 12* ones into lambda grinders. In the end, I had Hero crest, 290k meseta, 3 lambda grinders and 2 12* weapons outside the stuff I started the quest with.
Well, that pretty much explains it. Considering that you’ve dropped more 40 counts, though unluckily only were able to procured 26 actual cubes from the 10s due to double rolling more 12. But you’ve literally had over 40+ drops with all that boosts up because of the meseta value you listed since it’s still dropped in small value but in more quantities.
I think you gave me the wrong link since all the page you linked is about buff stacking and say nothing about how rdr actually works.
Because you’re not reading the subtext in red for the rare drop description in the item sections and only reading on boost mechanics.
Though, again, if you’re still incline to believe otherwise, do the test I explained previously, run with and without boosts to see it for yourself.
By that definition, if i try to solo a 12-man raid, is it still MPA? If so, then I believe calling this MPA is utterly pointless and doesn't represent a single aspect of the issue. When I refer to MPA I imply that more than 4 people participate in a given quest, not that more than 4 people can participate in it. When I use MPA I refer to a group of more than one party, not the property of the quest. Given quest might be MPA quest, but if I run it solo, I wouldn't say that I run MPA. When I run Elder I invite 3 of my friends to the party and lock the room so no other parties can join without a password.
I’m not exactly understanding what you’re getting at here. Soloing is solo whether it be in mpa content, 4-man, or solo content. I mean, you aren’t even running trains at that point since it’s just you, which would male it soloing an mpa content. So I’m confused as to why you up try to make a point out of it. I mean, if you’re running party in a mpa train even with a single party it’s still considering running a mpa train because of the capacity of players the quest holds, whether it be 8 or 12 man trigger/content.
Though you’re free to refer to such in whatever manner since it’s more or less that it doesn’t affect me in anyway.
Probably, after all, I took the idea from some random video that somebody posted on Reddit a day earlier, but I feel responsible for popularizing it.
Except it's been talked about once triggers were mentioned on PSO2 public/private discord servers. But whatever makes you happy I guess.
I think you are the one that is creating an issue where there is none. Neither extreme quests on PD are self-sustainable. To run extreme you need to farm cubes for passes when PD is inherently impossible to run at perpetuity because you will run out of triggers and badges at some point. With a party of 3, you can run boomer 24/7 if you just switch hosts every 2 hours and buy 99 triggers every 6. It's like saying that money is a limiting factor to identifying weapons, ignoring the fact that you can scrap identified 10*s for money.
In opposition, you're actually the one making an issue out of it by misinterpreting when I mentioned issue and end up blowing it out of disproportion. I made no implication that it was a literal issue, just that it had a cost/limiting factor to do it and possible things people can do as a work around for it. I clearly stated they are other methods people can do to run for meseta before and not comparing which is better. You inherently dismissed the fact that I acknowledged in my initial comment it was sustainable if the conditions are met.
So if you can answer my question, is it not true that you're limited to doing the trig as long as you have badges to spend on it? You are required to have meseta initially to even id items in the first place, so is that also not a limiting factor? You give the argument that you can scrap it but that irrelevant to the initial point that a currency is require to even do such actions in the first place, like running trigs or XQ, ID'ing items, etc.
You're reacting negatively entirely to some of the terms/words I used and not actually see the main point of my comment(s) here.
That's not how RDR works in this game. The number of drops is fixed, RDR can increase quality, but not quantity. At best it can turn meseta/trash drops into better items, but PD doesn't have that many drop slots, especially when you consider that like 1/3 of the times you get gonna be 12* instead of 10*. 40 with high rdr? Believable. 50? No. Also, I already ran a combined 500% rdr boost on that (50 daily+50 turkey+50 triboost+250 rdr+100% host triboost). You are also ignoring identification cost of unidentified items, which was 80k for that run. 290k was the total amount of cash I earned from that run after getting rid of all items. Admittedly I didn't include the value of 11 12*s I got tho.
Can you provide the source regarding that it only affects drop quality?
Since the actual process is it increase all the chances on the target's drop table in correlation to the boost you have up. That means the 1% on that specific 12* weapons with 500% makes it 6% chance of dropping. Then RDR rolls the quantity first, runs each drop through the categories (meseta, weapon, unit, disks, etc,) and then rarities, then another roll even more to decide the particular item. If you're anything aware of how loot tables are like in PSO2, every single item has their specific drop value which is why it's often repeated that RNG only increase chances of a 13* dropping but does not guarantee it. meseta and units tends to be favored when RDR is not present, which is why you see those more often if you do no have any RDR up. It's reflective in how people farm meseta in places like XQ Aquatics or even Elders where triboost/meseta boost is only used to increase the value of meseta drop(s). All mobs/bosses have a set base drop that is affected by RDR, there's a soft cap for the quantity that will have diminishing return for RDR, which means it requires more RDR to even make a noticeable difference.
You can even test it yourself: go into a boss content without any RDR, defeat the boss and break crystal and tell me how many items you have dropped. Then put on boosters and gauge the amount of drops you get in total. It increases to both the amount of items you can have dropped and also raises the drop chance of items on the loot table. Also, run something like Elder without RDR, you'll have majority to be meseta in form of drops instead of gears/misc, not to mention it'll be less. Test it on enemies too, see have RDR up and off, see how many drop meseta and how many drop items.
500% RDR isn't actually a lot, it is actually possible to get close to 50 drops if you utilize higher RDR. There's a reason why I stated the range of possible earning you can get. Also, you still haven't clarified how you got rid of the fodders? Was it sold in shop? Or was it taking into account the entire loot you had? As I was referencing the possible10~12* weapon drop is an excube, that is how the possible earning was gauged. This wasn't to include what you could earn by selling but rather the worth of items in cubes. Considering each excube is worth around 12k (because of grinder exchange). So in actuality, what was the entire amount of 10~12* you have?
Also, if you still want to believe that RDR doesn't affect drop quantity, here is the swiki page that explains how the process goes, while it is in Japanese, it can be Google Translated that can still be easily understable: scroll to RDR consumables
I think we are using a different definition of MPA, I was always using it as multi-party alliance, I guess you use it for multi-player alliance or something.
It's always referred in general for any mpa content that isn't 4-man that you're doing as they are contents that enables more than one party hence the mpa tag.
@Blade-Syphon Assuming I've been referring to only JP and asserting I'm only playing JP. I play on both EN/JP, mind you. Not to mention that only minor aspects on EN is different (such as badge exchanges, or players). Everything else should be the same as in JP in core aspects. Just because I still happen to use JP terms to relate to things because I'm more familiar with using those terms offends you doesn't mean I don't play on EN. While I play casually in EN doesn't dismiss anything I've said either.
It's not my fault that you're being incomprehensible towards the things I stated or mentioned and misconstrued the things I say when replying, I call things as I see it. But I'm fine with it since I know you're free to express yourself and entitled to your opinion. Though you should try to
@Kamil118 I don't exactly think you're the pioneer here with the elder method.
Also, I'll just say what I replied earlier, you're providing a solution to the issue. It doesn't take away that you're still needing badges for trigger just because you're running MPA trains that results in surplus of badges. Hence, the limiting factor is still there. Such goes with any content that has its specific currency to run, be it trigs, XQ, etc,
PD doesn't even have 50 drop slots, more reasonable amount of cubes is ~30 per run, which after identifiaction costs gives you ~300k per run. If you can kill solo PD in ~3 minutes, then sure, it is better meseta farm, but I don't think most players can do that. I even just did it to check how much I would get. Running 50% triboost, turkey and 250% droprate buff I got 26 cubes, and after selling everything I was left with 290k meseta.
It definitely is boring as hell to bully boomer.
I made no implication nor claimed it's a better meseta farming method, just an option that exist for meseta farming because you can liquidate the cubes.
PD has a base drop count of around 15~20 counts or so, with 250% rdr + 50% tri that will result in more. You'll eventually amount to close to 40 average cubes with higher RDR but the amount will fluctuate as it is still RNG based. So you running once to get 26 cube was entirely RNG based and to clarify, is that 290k from the net value of both the cubes/drops in total or something else such as items put up for sale,etc. As 26 cubes is around ~312k worth of meseta.
You don't need to run MPA train, 3-man party is enough to make it sustanable.
That's still consider a mpa train nonetheless as it is a mpa content in addition that it's not one person being the host/provider we're talking about here, it's 2 others (or possibly more) plus yourself to alleviate the cost of a single trig.
@Matt yes, if you have that condition met to recuperate the cost of the trigger but does not counter my point that constriction is still tied to how many badges you have to spare.
Just like how I explained that XQ aquatics could be run but the xtreme pass is still a constraint to run it as a method for meseta farming, while it can be counteracted by exchanging for passes.
Yes, running mpa train would most definitely result in a positive increase in badge amount, but what you’re explaining is a work around to counter the problem. It doesn’t invalidate that the initial point where the currency (which is the badges) is still the limiting factor.
There’s been numerous methods even before triggers were added to badge shop that people can do with the only real constraint being time,
Such as new players could grind in AQ and get both xp and photon boosters which could be npc’d for a significant amount.
There’s even XQ ruin/aquatics stage 41-45 people can run constantly (since xq passes are also tradable via excubes and handed out daily) for +100k a run with boosts.
While elder offers a faster way to get raw meseta drop, it’s constricted by the amount of badges you have on hand. So you can only run it as long as you have the badges to afford them.
Like Cloud mentioned, excubes conversion has always been a method used for meseta gain (12k per cube).
Even without something like elder, just look at PD solo trig which you cannrun for about 40~50 cubes which is around 480~600k in meseta value + the meseta from clear.
Elder seems good for raw meseta but you get more meseta value investing in other triggers for their drops as running something like Loser XH actually offers more for you generally than running elder. Since elder is kore for quick cash and not efficiency.
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