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@NonnoN i offered you help along with my suggestion that bouncer doesn need a buff according to people i know who play bouncer as main and who i asked on discord (you asked for the opinion of other bouncer so...) you should add to your original post the section that you are not asking for advice/help with your class and edit the "i want a damage buff for bouncer" entirely if thats not what you are asking for
I'd personally suggest taking Photon Blade Fever and Rapid Boost and converting them into passives. Not at the same power level as they currently are, of course, but make them react in some way that helps congeal gameplay styles around them. And importantly, free up that bar space for techniques.
After investing as much time into this game, and particularly into Bouncer, as I have - I firmly think that at least for Bouncer, the active stance and active skills should be reworked into something else entirely simply because sub-palette space is at a premium for a class that already pretty much has to cast techniques from their sub-palette anyway.
As it is currently, I have to have an entire sub-palette book dedicated just to Bouncer to have all of the things I need, and I'm still going to have to rework it a bit once again when complex PAs come out.
I do agree that for how it is currently, giving a streamlined way to swap between the two weapon types would be great - maybe holding the Weapon Action for a second (like holding the Hero PAs) to swap to the other weapon? Since that gets used a bunch anyway.
What parts of my various posts say that i'm asking on advice about how to play the class? I dont understand that.I opened that thread for the reason mentioned in the title: I'm Asking for a Bouncer Buff.
Thats the suggestion i'm proposing and i'm hoping people that actually play the class say what the think about that and what is wrong: for me is the damage that derives from various fixes that can be done or not. Damage is not just "big numbers" but as i said earlier if you just fix cooldown, swapping or basic % everything gave you in a way or another DPS (Damage per second) so, the Lazy way to approch that is just a fix of the basic % of weapon skill or basic damage of the class but, if the improvement come from other more complex ways like a rework of some mechanics i will be not displeased too.
Now that i clarified again that ( and again if u want to take my previous post as a quote do as you please but dont ignore the entire contest like the previous one, thats annoying) i dont seek advice since i think to know how to play my class.If you dont agree with the buff again thanks for your opinion.
@NonnoN said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
basic % everything gave you in a way or another DPS (Damage per second) so, the Lazy way to approch that is just a fix of the basic % of weapon skill or basic damage of the class
i dont seek advice since i think to know how to play my class
i'm not here for showing graphics or math but i can assure to you that without be a whale i think to have a good equip ( 200 S.atk Jupiter tullus and Trailblazer with 130 S.Atk each) with drink, alliance buff and shifta i cant reach 4m dps.
based on that i see that youre still asking for a flat damage % buff - wich is "easy" for the devs to do - but as i explained before....the damage youre dealing on the bear and comparing that damage of those 20 seconds with other classes does NOT show you the actual potential of your class - its just a tool to test wich weapons do the most dmg for your class etc - not a tool to compare the 20 second dps to other classes...you cant say based on that "i cant reach 4m damage on the bear" that your class is bad....you did not offer ANYTHING like video material or proof that your class is bad "even you know how to play it" - you base everything on that "4m you could not reach" and my suggestion is still - based on your low information about bouncer and based on the opinion i hear from people i play together with who main bouncer - i can say it doesn need a flat dmg % buff
now to the other section the "mechanical play" its possible to still recieve updates for pso2 (maybe even classes) so it might also be possible to add some new skill rings wich add more "spice" to the bouncer gameplay without touching the overall damage the class does too much - as i said in my very first reply (wich you probably missed) that i would suggest to add some qol (quality of life) changes (via skill rings) for bouncer
@JuggernautGTX I think you are missing OP point here.
This is not about HOW MUCH DAMAGE, and got nothing to do with Skills and player ability at playing the game. First of all you don't know if OP is good or not at the game. Also, is not helpful to a post in the In-Game Suggestion section, to not give suggestion.
As many people said, me included, the one thing that echoed trough is:"FIX THE GAMEPLAY".
Now if your Bo friends says there's no issue, good for him, can't help if people like convoluted Micromanagement of Sub palette and Weapon Palettes, but that dosn't make it ok, or good.
Bo gameplay compared to that of the other classes, in particular Scion, feels flawed.
Just a quick look at the skill tree shows why.
Highly situational Active Skill, like fields, meant more to help others then to help the Bo itself. The class got Tech access but no real way to exploit tech damage, 'cause os a bad caster.
Elemental and Break stances have weird conditionals compared even to other stance classes like Hu,Br or Fi. In the Bo Skill tree there's not a good stance.
Photon Blade fever is limitating, 'cause holdin a tech and cancel it is not that great, same with JetBoots.
Bo on it's own got good tools, but no way to use them without a sub class intervention, that fixes the mistakes made with it's design.
JetBoots in particular is a weapon with a limitating selection of PA, and Soaring Blades don't even use PA, outside of Kestrel Rampage for sustained damage.
Switching palettes costantly is not fun, and is convoluted. Requires a lot of shenaningans. No other class requires such a massive management of game resource.
In any case OP point is not about increase it's damage, but more about what can be done to the class to improve it:s gameplay.
On Global Server Bo is a popular class,nontheless. But there's a reason if in the last popularity poll, Su,Fi and Bo ranked on the last position.
The reason is altogh in specific situation the class pulls out very good numbers and the gameplay feels fun and rewarding, is undeniable that old classes, like Fi and Bo need a revision on the gameplay department.
Also, a flat damage buff is required as well, since Bo PA power, expecially compared to other classes leaves a lot or room for improvement.
Overall i think you should stop judging others and assume they are bad players.
Bo sadly requires the dev to rework it. The class damage feels underwhelming at times expecially seeing all you have to do and manage to take the best out of it's possibilities.
QoL changes, to weapon managent, easy weapon switching, quick cast mechanics for more then Just shifta and Deband and Zanverse, would be nice.
Also gameplay fluidity needs an improvement. Swap weapon on the fly requires you to step-cancel to avoid lag in the swap animation and avoid to be stuck without be able to do stuff for 2sec.
Overall, the class needs a rework that's why SEGA started a series of update to correct and fix issue with the low popularity class(wich btw are all the old classes) since most people on JP Main Scion.
@ElDiablo696175 i even suggested that he should edit his original post (like adding information/suggestions wich other people delivered) rather than having a short "i want more dps because i cant reach 4m at the practice bear" - and i can quote you that a 100 times that hes bothered by his low dmg on the teddy...people dont bother to read through the whole thread but rather the original post (especially GMs - they even told people to edit front pages because they cant read through everything in every post)
Yes every mechanics you wanna fix it will for sure influence your damage, because it is what every class do in this game, damage.
We will not defeat bosses by cuddling mini pony's. 
Ps: I edited my 1st post so you can rest assured that people, that be Mods or Devs can find what i mean. By the way before asking, yes i quoted my long post about the character tree and stuff.
I think it's basically what Noobie666 said, this is an 8 year old game that is basically at the end of it's life cycle, most class changes will be like the recent one on JP that just increase potency/duration/range or reduce recast/penalties but there won't be fundamental changes to how each class plays at this point.
The classes ARE being reworked - just it will be in NGS rather than PSO2. NGS is obviously being work on as the successor of PSO2 and if the NGS stream showed us anything today is that the base classes in NGS are definitely more fluid in game play compared to their counter parts in PSO2 and the ability to slot 2 diffferent weapons and PA on a single weapon pallette would solve some of the weapon switching problems that some people seems to have.
@HarmlessSyan Indeed, a lot of what I pointed out for the Bouncer was more of what I would like to see revised for New Genesis (and hopefully backported to the original game). I was definitely surprised to see that a lot of the Techer's issues that were pointed out in another thread were definitely made innate this time around without "compromising" what we know of the Techer whereas the Force and Fighter are still familiar but very different from what we are used to as a welcome change due to complaints I (and other players) would have against them.
The one feature I would definitely want would be faster weapon switching that would be along the lines of a "tap to swap" for both the subpalette and weapon palettes or at least something like the weapon wheel introduced in Devil May Cry 3's Switch Port where you can easily pick the weapon you want. The subpalette being usable like this (or things like "traps" for the Ranger if that is still a thing or picking elements for a Bouncer or Techer instead of having to swap subpalettes) would definitely be something I would like to see just so you have less down-time in having to scroll through the weapon palette menu and then to fiddle with the right buttons to get to where you want. This alone would definitely speed up not just the Bouncer but any class that swaps weapons whereas having two weapons on the same palette is a nice idea for me but is only a band-aid solution for the way I want to play (but I can definitely see a use for it if I can seamlessly utilize multiple weapons like that). It definitely gives me Dragon's Dogma vibes (specifically the original for how vocations like the Strider/Ranger/Assassin/Magick Archer handled the daggers as weapons and then would switch to the bow simultaneously).
@JuggernautGTX said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
@NonnoN said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
the Lazy way to approch that is just a fix of the basic % of weapon skill or basic damage of the class but, if the improvement come from other more complex ways like a rework of some mechanics i will be not displeased too.
i see that youre still asking for a flat damage % buff
This is... not a good take.
@ElDiablo696175 said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
Overall i think you should stop judging others and assume they are bad players.
This is a much better take. The performance of any one player at one class speaks nothing of the capability of that class relevant to other classes. If that player had played another class for the same time they be even better (or worse) than others.
Different players having differing levels of competence does not automatically mean differences in classes they play are nonexistent.
As an additional point, if a hypothetical perfectly-played Bouncer provides damage output that is broadly equal to a hypothetical perfectly-played Hero (while being more maintenance) but a badly-played Bouncer is half as good as a badly-played Hero, that is still something that should reasonably be addressed as an accessibility and ease-of-use matter.
@Miraglyth said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
This is a much better take. The performance of any one player at one class speaks nothing of the capability of that class relevant to other classes.
thank you for pointing this out...just because OP feels his class is bad doesn mean the class is bad compared to other classes...thats exactly what i was talking about the whole time - with the only exception that he was asking for other bouncer main opinions - the good guy that i am i of course asked a bouncer main to share his opinion about it - of course Op and "one or two other homies" are not amused about different opinions - the end
@JuggernautGTX said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
@Miraglyth said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
This is a much better take. The performance of any one player at one class speaks nothing of the capability of that class relevant to other classes.
thank you for pointing this out...just because OP feels his class is bad doesn mean the class is bad compared to other classes...thats exactly what i was talking about the whole time
No it's not, and I pointed it out to respond to you:
@JuggernautGTX said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
alliance mate of mine plays bouncer since the beginning....and hunter subclass...when we done risk explorations to fight lumin...he always been in the top 3 of the dps board and mostly top 1
This means nothing. The day I first used soaring blades sometime around the end of Episode 3, I grabbed the Cutting Snow v2 +4 that was sitting in my storage and within an hour had successive Anga Phandaj resist soaring blades in a 12-human MPA with no other Bouncers. Are/were unenhanced soaring blades that powerful? Obviously not.
@NonnoN said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
i'm not here for showing graphics or math but i can assure to you that without be a whale i think to have a good equip ( 200 S.atk Jupiter tullus and Trailblazer with 130 S.Atk each) with drink, alliance buff and shifta i cant reach 4m dps.
and i have got this from OP for you....what does that mean? he cant reach 4m damage on the practice bear in 20 seconds so this means the class is bad because gunner or ranger are doing more dps on the stationary bear in 20 seconds? please...you know how BS that argument is
there are a billion factors to consider if a bouncer class needs a "serious dps buff" according to people i play with and who main bouncer since its available - they disagree...what else can i say? i am bad on gunner - i cant reach 15m on bear in 20 seconds like other gunner - should i open a post now with the suggestion that gunner needs a serious buff?
@JuggernautGTX said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
please...you know how BS that argument is
I also know that there's more to this matter than just cherry-picking one hole in the OP's raising of it and pretending that eliminates the entire matter.
[This part previously appended to the previous post but being moved to a new post to ensure it is read]
When it comes to not judging classes by their players, I'd like to remind that you are declaring that NonnoN finding the class more effort to play for its output means he is a bad player while simultaneously dismissing the idea that a different player consistently performing better than you in new risk explorations could possibly have anything to do with you being a worse player than them.
Player bad Bouncer goodThis is a self-contradicting position.
@Miraglyth said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:
When it comes to not judging classes by their players, I'd like to remind that you are declaring that NonnoN finding the class more effort to play for its output means he is a bad player while simultaneously dismissing the idea that a different player consistently performing better than you in new risk explorations could possibly have anything to do with you being a worse player than them.
- One Bouncer doing badly
- Another Bouncer doing well
This is a self-contradicting position.
this applies to any class - if you cant adept to its unique playstyle youre performing bad with the class - if youre good with it youll perform good and feel the class is nice for you...if you say the class sucks then obviously the class isn for you...i mean bouncer is out for how many years? i remember the guy posting in general "hey guys if you jump from hunter sub to phantom sub you gonna suck" - OP said its his first time doing ep 6 since he played till ep 4 on jp....i see tons of dead ppl if i run UH with randoms....of course its a big difficulty gap from XH to UH and you needa adapt to it...i dont see how bouncer is "bad" compared to all others when ppl i run with who are using bouncer are doing well? i dont get that point and i still argue the "it needs a % dps buff" or a "complete rework" we got NGS around the corner with a shit ton of reworked classes/mechanics i dont see the need for a "new class" in pso2 as bouncer would feel like a "new class" after a rework- the quality of life changes that CAN be made and would polish the gameplay of the current bouncer are totally fine and i highly doubt its much of an issue or "work to do" to to tie these changes to skill rings so its an optional "buff" / "change"
i just checked his masq depth 300 he clears it in 4-5 minutes while a hero (who i consider more powerful vs masq) does about 3 1/2 - 4 minutes...i dont see this huge of a gap vs scion classes at least hero...i trust these videos more than a random guy who thinks the class is bad because he cant reach 4m vs the practice bear
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