Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff

Hi, i'm sorry to bother but i'm an old player that has already played on the Jp version and since is passed a lot of years from the creation of this game and, from episode 3 to be precise i'm wondering if could be possible recive a rework of the Bouncer class or a serious buff that will fix the Damage problem that this class have.We are right now in episode 6 and, not so far from New Genesis so, i know that the popularity of the Bouncer class is low since the Scion class are tremendly strong and cool but even without this classes the Bouncer class is still way underrated when we talk about damage.I heard there is a "buff" incoming but if it gives just a 20 second of Photon Blade Fever skill is easy to assume is kinda useless since even if we got a longer duration we got nothing when we talk about damage %. It feels sad heard about change like that because i have more then 1400 hour as a Bouncer Main and is tiring, even if is really a fun class to use you know that if u want something to be done u have to work more than twice than the other classes and without even reaching that well. I know as well that was intended to be a more supporting class than a real dps machine but it dosnt work well eighter in this role. In the end i will repeat myself asking the same thing: Is it possible to recive a serious Bouncer Buff?

I hope to recive feedback from other BO main class for this issue. Thanks for the attenction and sorry for my bad english.

Edited Part, just for clear any possible doubt i will quote myself from another post in this thread:

@NonnoN said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

@JuggernautGTX said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

@NonnoN said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

if could be possible recive a rework of the Bouncer class or a serious buff that will fix the Damage problem that this class have.

we got nothing when we talk about damage %.

I know as well that was intended to be a more supporting class than a real dps machine

Is it possible to recive a serious Bouncer Buff?

I hope to recive feedback from other BO main class for this issue.

all that you have said is about "its lack of damage" but that "you enjoy playing the class cause its fun"

idk what could be understand wrong? you asked for feedback from other BO mains...i asked one who does really good on bouncer and he sees no issue with the damage a bouncer does...idk why you even think that bouncer is a support class??

The Bouncer skill tree contains more supportive kind of abilities like fields that are meant to be buffs for the surrounding allies.The level 85 skill give u the ability to activate thos fields when u dodge an attack.Yes this buff can even be for you but was designed for a more supporting role, same can be said for the weapon action move on the jet boots that cast shifta, deband and zanverse.If it was intended to be a more self damage improvement instead of area buffs Sega would have gave a stance or a toggle buff for the self improvement.Also instead of having any other self damage improvement you got the two stances that are situational: In case of Break stance it will apply to destructible parts, and Elemental stance as the name suggest it will apply if you have a weapon that match the elemental weakness of the target.For be short there are no generic self buff or passive that a real dps class have.It was meant as Hybrid class and obviously dosnt do well one thing or another.

pso2 works this way: -you know how to play your class = you deal tons of damage -you dont know how to play your class = your damage is mediocre/bad/feels not enough

As i said earlier i'm not pretending to be TOP DPS or TOP PLAYER but after more than 1500 hour as bouncer on NA plus like the same on JP i think i know how to play my class.The difference i got from JP was just that i played till end episode 4 because on the JP server the delay between episode updates was longer, one episode could last even a year or more so when i played on the JP i got a different experince of this class and thats why i expressed my suggestion here about the fact that in episode 6 in my opinion Bouncer need a Buff.And yes a buff means even if you adjust some minor or major problem such as swapping, cooldown and other issues it will increase your damage % over time because i was mistaken it easy to understand it.

if you say you dont like the playstyle of bouncer then play another class thats more fun to play? why rework a whole class because you dislike it? makes no sense to me...i trust the people i play with...if they tell me bouncer is fine in terms of damage then i believe them...as i said he has his own youtube/twitch channel and has his own website too....if you want i can arrange a chat with him and you can ask him for advise if you really want to increase your damage

I ask for a rework because it can be fun play this class (as it was for me personally till end of episode4/5 ) but there are issues that force you to look for other Class like the Scion one because for sure they have a more easy approch and gave you better performance. That dosnt mean that all classes need to get this treatment, i hope ALL the old class can get a buff so instead of having the majority of player leave their classes for Scions they can just stick to play their favorite classes.

I mained Bo in EP3 and 4 but dropped it due to the ease of Scion classes.

Bo is still very strong especially with Ph sub now that trivializes weapon focus/gear gain that many of Bo moves depends on - especially with S6 S-class ability that will probably come to NA soon - it lets you gain Bo weapon focus/gear by staying in the air.

PBF is very powerful, the damage difference with it on and off is highly noticeable, any extension of it is welcome.

Sample of PBF - you can really see the difference with it on and off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whnj-5vO6o8

Seilent is heavily invested in HP and PP rather than attack power - so the numbers aren't all that amazing (especially with the damage cut on photoner enemies) - but it is more than enough to clear difficult content like high level divide quests.

Hi, i know there is still some content that have to be implemented but even with that, yes you can clear the content but the Bo class remain on the bottom of the ladder, and as i say you have to work three times for doing what other classes do with ease, the difference, speacking about damage is eally something that u can see even without knowing the game mechanics. This class didnt get a single serious buff since Episode 3 and would be appreciated if it get something real. Dont get me wrong as i said I am a main bouncer and for coming here after all the hours i spent playing that class it hurt me cause i love Bouncer. By the way, if u have the occasion try to play Bouncer in this episode and give me your tought about it. Again thanks for the attenction and, sorry for my bad english.

actually the botton of the ladder is Techer followed by Force, Bouncer is not in the same situation of those 2 classes, I gonna say the class that require the most buffs is Techer that literally kills all trash mobs without issues but to kill bosses is just no go but I doubt the classes right now will get a new overall buffs and will leave to balance or maybe to then right in New Genesis.

I'm sorry as far as i know the damage of the Force class right now in NA is kinda three time higher than the Bouncer class.Regarding the Techer i can agree, and would be nice that Sega gives to that class a serious buff too. As i suggest to the other player that has gave is feedback, trust me, test the Bouncer class right now and compare the damage with all other class then tell me what u think about. As was said by HarmlessSyan that played it in episode 3/4 in that episodes the damage was good but, right now even with the right gear u will seriously notice the difference. Please dont think i came here mindlessly or just without even tried to play my main class but i think Bouncer deserve a little more, not much but enough for be seriously viable. The video posted from HarmlessSyan come from a later part of episode 6 where u will be able to apply the S6: Photon ballet that permit u to recharge gear while mid air, it's cool and works well but has some problem: 1- We will not recive just new S class for Bouncer, every class in some way will rely on other S class to be placed on Units so you will never shorten the gap from the other classes. 2- You will be Always PBF dependant and, your real dps will shine when active ( Yes even right now you can see the difference) then you will lose half of your damage. 3- The damage you will get later on is not so far from the damage the Bouncer class actually do, with the S6 is just prolonged in time so you will just shorten the delay between your weapon action usage cause u will instantly regain the gear you spend but in the end you dont gain a serious damage improvement. To be short, without taking anything away from other classes it will just require a little more, dont know, a passive skill or an adjustment on the damage % parameter, just for be at last on pair with the other non shion classes, that would really nice and appreciated.

As usually thanks again for the attenction and sorry for my bad english.

Bouncer did get a few improvements during Episode 5 on JP, in particular Gran Wave could be steered (previously it just charged ahead uncontrollably in the direction you faced when there was no enemy to grab its attention) and losing focus on jet boots also meant any element change was lost (so you needed to reapply element every Jetsweep Kick).

I've been feeling noticeably sub-par for raw damage output compared to a Fighter/Hunter friend at a similar gear progression since we raised our Nemesis weapons around the same time back in the Ultimate Quest boost campaigns in mid-late Episode 3. This is/was apparently a thing on JP around that level of progress too. The most renowned Bouncer guide during Episode 5 refers to this from two of its leading authority players too during a State of Bouncer video:

But I think that's still one of the key issues of Bouncer even today with all the buffs and all the new stuff to Jet Boots and the 15★ weapons is that in order to even get up to or get close to the level of performance or DPS of Fighter/Hunter or Hero or Force/Tech[t]er you have to put in an unproportionate amount of effort and work on top of needing gear waaaay more stuff for optimal play.

You still need to gear at least three weapons unlike, you know, Force/Tech[t]er which really only needs like rod I guess nowadays [snip] And then Hero basically only needs [snip] sword [snip] and then Gunner/Fighter just [snip] uses TMGs as anything, so you generally have to on average put in more resources to gear your weapons for Bouncers, put in more resources to manage your Bouncer resources because you've got to manage your actives and you've got to manage your weapon for the most appropriate situation which you don't really gotta do... unless you're playing Fighter/Hunter. But that's just because... that's just how Fighter/Hunter works and it's still freakin' way stronger on average than Bouncer/Hunter can be. So... it's just kind of like... you don't need a Bouncer. Bouncer's not bad, it gets a lot of fun, it can be really good, you can do well with it, but like... you'll never be like "Where's my Bouncer at? I need a Bouncer in my MPA... I need a Bouncer in my party." Unless you really want, like, you know an extra 3 PP on downtime of all things, or, or you really want that extra 30% critical.

So I've kept mindful that Bouncers aren't so much about competing on the DPS front particularly with classes where that's basically all they're capable of. But recent experiences with consistently finishing 21st and lower on solo TA rankings behind Forces' absurd AOE compound tech murdersplosions and Bravers' fantastic PAs that do fast travel and AOE murderslices at the same time... shows we're definitely locked out of ranking well on TAs too which is surprising to me since you'd think the mobility of Bouncers should make them good at lower-difficulty (SH) timed quest types. So... yeah, I've kind of wondered what the point of Bouncer is meant to be beyond a hybrid DPS/support class that might duo better with a Fighter/Hunter than two Fighter/Hunters thanks to that duo lacking Shifta and Zanverse.

Of course the potential game-changer not covered in that video or any Episode 5 analysis is the arrival of Phantom as a subclass that has for a long time since been considered the meta for Bouncer subclassing and did nothing for Fighters and Gunners (and Forces and Bravers?). So that's an improvement that'll surely close the gap with some of our apparent deficiencies in particular when it comes to maintaining rotations, though it does come at the cost of making us arguably more squishy than Fighters thanks to losing Automate and Iron Will not too long after Fighters gained a second layer of death prevention with their excellent level 85 skill.

Looking ahead beyond that, I'd say that Fighters will get one of the best S6 class SGAs in the game while the Bouncer one does nothing to raise the ceiling of our fastest DPS rotations. Meanwhile one of the better S8 SGAs giving non-technique classes access to Shifta and Deband helps erode some of the hybrid benefit that a Bouncer brings, to the point that a Fighter/Hunter duo that can self-Shifta is more likely to be preferable to a Fighter & Bouncer duo.

So... yeah. With our optimal play pretty much locked into requiring switching weapons (and enabling/disabling Break Stance, and activating the relevant boost for the other weapon...) it feels like Bouncer is more fussy to play for DPS than a few other classes that can stick it with one weapon, two or three PAs and a single boost ability that can still easily outclass us despite that simplicity. Which does hit me as a little strange.

But for now I'm just hoping Phantom will bring a bigger improvement than I expected, and I'm holding off on pushing my thoughts on this until I can find that out.

I don't think Bouncer needs a buff so much as some serious QoL updates (that may result in dps boosts).

Disclaimer: I am primarily a soaring blades BoHu, so I'm not speaking from the perspective of a Jet Boots user. I literally only use my JB as a PP battery and to maintain buffs.

Biggest example: I tend to play Soaring Blades like a mosquito, buzzing around with Dispersing Strike and weapon action to setup my Kestrel Rampage-0 or Distraction Wing on breakable parts. When you normal attack out of a weapon action, gravity kicks in and you're immediately on the ground and oh my god does that utterly screw the rotation up. If that were removed, and you stayed in the air while attacking even out of a weapon action, it'd solve so many positioning issues I have.

Another thing that would be nice is having weapon switch PAs. Just two: one to switch from DB to JB and one to switch from JB to DB. As said above I use my Jet Boots primarily as a PP battery and one attack/extension is generally all it takes, but weapon switching normally is so clunky while Hero's weapon swapping is so buttery smooth. It'd be nice for bouncers in general to have this.

Finally, perfect dodges with weapon actions should TOTALLY proc the 85 talent. Let me have my fields up when I dodge regardless of the method, because if I'm step dodging I'm probably on the ground and I am NEVER ON THE GROUND IF I CAN HELP IT. Also, it'd be really cool if that talent made it so both fields activate when one activates regardless of means-- be nice to save a slot on my palette because I never use the fields separately anyway.

It'd be convenient for my PP management if Kestrel Rampage didn't consume ALL of the gear bar but maybe like... 1.5 or 2 bars of it.

Oh, and while I'm on a roll: 3 minutes for Shifta/Deband should be the STANDARD. No Rings, no Techer, just make that the default cap and rework the SSA/Talent/Ring to do something else. Nobody likes reupping Shifta/Deband every 60 seconds.

Honestly i still think it will need a bit of improvement even one of that you have mentioned can make the difference in terms of damage/sustain. It's hard not see that this class lack something, i'm still kinda sad about the damage but, let's see if the S6 will improve it for good but i dont think it would be enough to be on pair with other non scion classes. I hope to be in wrong.

@_Flux_ said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

Another thing that would be nice is having weapon switch PAs [snip] weapon switching normally is so clunky while Hero's weapon swapping is so buttery smooth. It'd be nice for bouncers in general to have this.

Absolutely. For me this is part of the active management trouble. When switching from JB to SB I have to use Ctrl + F2 ➡ 3 ➡ 4 to activate a chat shortcut that switches my weapon and sub-palette, then turn on Break Stance and Photon Blades Fever. Then after the latter runs out, it's 3 ➡ Ctrl + F1 ➡ 4 to turn Break Stance off, switch weapon and sub-palette back with another chat shortcut and start Rapid Boost. Oh and either immediately or after the first attack I also need to use a charged tech to switch element.

Hero? They just press one button that does everything for them and even attacks as well. Get out of town. It's like the developers identified what was wrong with a class that requires constant weapon type switching as part of its design and only applied the improvements on their shiny new class while abandoning the class they probably learned from.


@_Flux_ said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

Finally, perfect dodges with weapon actions should TOTALLY proc the 85 talent. Let me have my fields up when I dodge regardless of the method

Yeah, sub-palette space is at such a premium that I don't have either on any palette anymore. It helps that with jet boots I've got into the habit of using sidestep weapon shift as a substitute for normals that lasts longer and regains more PP but also doesn't mysteriously whiff sometimes and cause an unwanted element cancel when being used midair. (And on that subject it's hilarious that the only way to disable weapon-action element cancel requires one of our class rings).

But that only works for jet boots. Soaring blades are really messed up by Dodge Auto-Field requiring Sidestep specifically because their weapon shift is meant to be used to dodge while attacking. That's the explicit purpose of both Photon Blades Escape and the Tackle ring! Requiring the use of a non-offensive dodge is basically forcing a class and a weapon type that's meant to dodge offensively to not be offensive while dodging. It feels rather nonsensical.


@NonnoN said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

but, let's see if the S6 will improve it for good

You mean S6: Soaring Heavendance? I hear it has use with very high-level rotation management to enable some combos. It isn't the worst class S6 out there (that has to be Summoner's counter-productive one) but I'm not sure it'd be that much of a game-changer especially if you can't do those combos anyway.

@Miraglyth i'm not sure if that is what it is called on global but if it's the one that gives you weapon focus/gear in the air then yes

Alot of Bo PA/Ability is based on weapon focus. With this S6 it gives you basically unlimited focus to just spam photon blades with tech cancel during PBF leading to some ridiculously high damage - this video is older at 90 cap and you can see the few hops in the beginning to get weapon focus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYY2D7MARaM and also the video i linked in an earlier post - that is from a player that focus on HP and PP and have very little attack affixes.

Jetboots is considered support - so the damage is a bit lacking, but with Ph sub and the S6, it basically allows you to spam Jetsweep Kick/Vinto every other PA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-Z5Wz3yHow obviously it is not going to be as good on bosses that moves around much more than a rockbear

@HarmlessSyan said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

With this S6 it gives you basically unlimited focus

That's faster than I expected and a little slower than what I'm guessing are more recent sources so I'm wondering if they dialled it down a bit in a balance patch. Either way when you had Gunners breaking 11 million back on the 80 cap it shows both that the stationary Rockbear comparison isn't very useful and that even abusing it Bouncers don't keep up.


@HarmlessSyan said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

Jetboots is considered support

By who? Pretty much every balance adjustment Bouncer has received since its introduction has shifted it to being point-blank DPS. Grand Wave steering, normal and normal weapon shift getting increases to both power and PP generation, Jetsweep Kick no longer cancelling element, and so on.

Pretty much the only change I have seen that makes Bouncer better less outclassed as support is a Techter nerf that stopped its Zanverse being better than other classes'.

If they'd wanted Bouncer to have a support role they would have given it a support ability that other classes couldn't do. Instead they've constantly eroded the little it already shared with others; Techters got Party Support at level 85 to make mid-skirmish Shifta less useful, other melee classes got more survivability skills and SGAs while enemies become ever more lethal which all make mid-skirmish Resta less useful (and Megiverse less usable...) and everyone has been getting escalating buffs to critical hit rate and PP regen so even Bouncer's fields are becoming borderline useless for anyone except themselves.

In exchange for that, Bouncer hasn't got any less complicated to perform its lagging damage output. What other class needs to stop attacking to press a minimum of four keys in a specific sequence, with delays thanks to changing sub-palette having an input cooldown, while standing in a boss' danger zone, entirely because we're the only class that's forced to constantly switch weapon type to try to keep our damage from falling even further behind? At least 80% of my Iron Will procs in Xmas are coming from insta-kill attacks or freeze-kill combos while I'm trying to play the piano to switch my weapons! I haven't got Phantom raised enough to be a subclass yet but once I do this complexity is going to cause my death count to skyrocket.

Or perhaps you can educate me on this one? Tell me, as a Bouncer, what's the method that totally exists to...

  • Switch my weapon between a jet boots and soaring blades
  • Switch my subpalette because the two weapons require a high number of unique inputs (e.g. five elemental techs for JB element setting because JBs don't remember element on switch and by the way why haven't we got a skill to do that?)
  • Toggle Break Stance
  • Activate either Rapid Boost or Photon Blades Fever

...all in one key press like Hero can (which is also an attack!) and like most other classes don't need to?

I mean heck, even two would be nice, but I'm pretty sure chat shortcuts can't even activate skills, let alone multiple simultaneously. Man would it be nice to have a single shortcut for "/mpal1 /spal1 /deact BreakStance /act RapidBoost /toge IMMA FIRIN MAH LAZER!!!!". Not only would it bring us up to speed with the more usable classes but it'd free up critically lacking subpalette space. Wouldn't fix our DPS deficiency, but at least it'd be something.

You're not going to do all that with 1 button but individually 1 button. Weapon swap, numpad - subpallete swap, numpad. Make it easier with a multi button gaming mouse to map some of your numpad on it. Rapid Boost, PBF, stance can be put on subpallete and hit number key or again, map important keys onto the gaming mouse if you have trouble reaching it on the keyboard

Using a controller? Well that is your choice.

I would not clutter my subpallette with tech for all elemental change but rather make another adjacent weapon pallete with techs, as long you don't change out of the same weapon it will remember what element you are on. If I do want element change on my subpallete, it would probably only be like light and dark (like 80%+ of the bosses). And I don't put -mates or atomizers on my main subpallete to reduce the clutter - I don't -mate on Bo and general etiquette on JP to take care of yourself, typically people will moon atomizer you but sometime you will wait a long time for one. Outside certain urgents, people rarely die in expert matching anyways.

I'm not going to argue that it is more tedious compared to scion classes, basically most base classes don't play as smooth as the scions which was why I dropped Bo for Scions. Most of my Bo experience came from the JP EP3-4 era where the skill tree was much more restrictive and you had to choose between skills. Some of the skills on the tree now didn't exists and alot of the skills that cost only 5 points now were 10 before for the same effect. Bo has been improved quite a bit already from back then and I don't believe it is a weak class that needs that much more buffing compared to others.

People considered JB support as you won't always have Te with you all the time, Te is literally just a 3% play rate on JP. Shifta and Deband is always good, and it's built into your PAs that you don't have to cast separately. Before Ph sub and S6 that increase focus gain - JB PA damage is just not that high and with low passive multipliers. It sucks hard when you miss your vinto/jetsweep as it is your hard hitting PA needed to maintain decent damage. Ph sub really helped as you can find people soloing bosses with JB only as you now build focus super fast but still, it looks so much more work compared to soaring blades with PBF and they are extending the duration of PBF next week on JP.

I don't believe it being a weak or strong class should affect whether it receives QoL; you shouldn't need two subpalette bars and KB+M to play any class smoothly and optimally. This isn't a hotbar MMO, and so it should favor simplicity to keep things flowing.

I agree that Bouncer isn't a weak class, by any stretch, and IMO it doesn't need huge sweeping revamps. Just minor changes to make things smoother would make all of the difference. Take for example Photon Blades and Rapid Boost. Skills mutually exclusive to their weapon that you're encouraged to use on cooldown. If they were to be merged into one button (example, blades becomes boost when you switch to JB and the CDs remain separate as they are now) that would do a ton for Bouncer.

Little things like that go a long way.

(Though on the subject of larger changes, I wouldn't mind if they made the Jet Boots regular attack extension trigger Resta or Anti to round out its support actions).

@HarmlessSyan said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

You're not going to do all that with 1 button but individually 1 button. Weapon swap, numpad - subpallete swap, numpad.

I'd recommend against this for two reasons:

  1. The numpad keys are on the far right side of the keyboard while the number keys to activate the abilities you need to use immediately are on the left side. This would either require both hands to do quickly (thereby making movement and either weapon shift or sidestep dodging impossible during the input) or add a delay to do with one hand.

  2. Both the weapon swap and subpalette swap inputs cause an input delay that not only affect other weapon swapping but also each other. Seriously, try it - Just jump into Forest Exploration Normal and select weapon and subpalette 1. Then press 8 on the numpad and start hammering 2 immediately afterwards. It won't let you switch weapons for about 1 second. Then press 1 on the numpad and start hammering 7. Again, it won't let you switch subpalettes for about 1 second.

You need to use a chat shortcut to do both simultaneously, skipping that horrid input cooldown and allowing that same hand to immediately press the nearby non-numpad numbers to use the necessary abilities. Unless you have a multi-button mouse as you say it's a little easier as a controller player than a keyboard player because your right hand can still sidestep (RT) while you do all this, whereas if you play keyboard WASD and X are all in that same area and you either have to chance it or try to use the shortcut and abilities with your right hand over your left.

Or you could just be Hero and hold one PA button for a split-second, not even needing to use any subpalettes or abilities...


@HarmlessSyan said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

I would not clutter my subpallette with tech for all elemental change but rather make another adjacent weapon pallete with techs

The problem is switching subpalettes mid-combat suuucks and if you're using two subpalettes for jet boots you're either trying to keep both weapons to one subpalette and probably sacrificing other abilities elsewhere or you're using three subpalettes for two weapons. Moreover, when you can't even see yourself in increasingly fast-moving large bosses (especially in Xmas lately), you're more likely to accidentally whiff a weapon shift and ditch your element in an unwanted way (thanks for making the way to prevent that a ring and not a class skill, game) which either leaves you doing less damage until that boss is dead or switching subpalette twice mid-combat.


@HarmlessSyan said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

as long you don't change out of the same weapon it will remember what element you are on.

What, like from jet boots to different jet boots? What common need is there to do that? Generally if Rapid Boost has just started cooldown, you switch to soaring blades (and ditch your JB element) or you lose a ton of damage output.

That's kind of the problem with Bouncer; we aren't doing all this extra ability management with enforced UI delay for any kind of improvement or extra capability other classes can't do. We're doing it all to try to keep up. And as we progress through the episodes it increasingly feels like it's not working.


@HarmlessSyan said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

I'm not going to argue that it is more tedious compared to scion classes, basically most base classes don't play as smooth as the scions which was why I dropped Bo for Scions.

That's a fair point, but most of the others didn't try (and certainly didn't succeed) to be as complicated as Bouncer to begin with. I haven't seen a Force seriously use a talis in months, they just need a rod and they're good. I do know Fighters who use multiple weapon types, but they switch when engaging with a different enemy type (broadly "is it a mob or a boss?") or to use a travel PA. Never in the middle of a fight at risk of being killed during the switch because the game forces them to do that to maintain damage.


@HarmlessSyan said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

Bo has been improved quite a bit already from back then and I don't believe it is a weak class that needs that much more buffing compared to others.

Yeah I covered that before, with pretty much of the buffing being QoL (like Grand Wave steering) or element preservation (but only for empty focus). If we'd got JP Ep 3 Bouncer during Episode 3 I wouldn't have found it as fun as I did back in May and would probably have ended up maining a different class. As an aside though, didn't Bouncer also have exclusivity of double-jumping back then?


@HarmlessSyan said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

People considered JB support as you won't always have Te with you all the time, Te is literally just a 3% play rate on JP. Shifta and Deband is always good, and it's built into your PAs that you don't have to cast separately.

"Fallback when a Techter is not available" is not the most shining of endorsements for Bouncer as a class, I hope you realise?


@HarmlessSyan said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

they are extending the duration of PBF next week on JP.

Cool, but does that also reduce the cooldown? If not, we still need to switch mid-combat. That's the issue. Unless they're extending it to longer than the toughest boss takes to kill by an average player, they are still demanding Bouncer fights with a boss and the game's UI at the same time.

@Miraglyth said in Would be nice to have a Serious Bouncer Buff:

What, like from jet boots to different jet boots? What common need is there to do that? Generally if Rapid Boost has just started cooldown, you switch to soaring blades (and ditch your JB element) or you lose a ton of damage output.

You can have the same weapon slotted in weapon palettes multiple times with different things slotted in, I suggested this to reduce your sub-palette clutter by having the same jetboots in 2 different weapon palettes - 1 of the weapon palette filled with your element changing techs while the other one your PAs. With 3 button input you can still have 1 element on your PA pallete. 6 total slots - normal attack, the 4 JB PAs then 1 tech. Bind the weapon action to another key not the weapon palette.

Yes I do have a gaming mouse, so swapping weapons isn't that bad - if not, you can still try to use the scroll wheel i guess? I did not need to swap my sub-palette on my Bo unless I'm atomizering or using telepipe. You need to clear up your clutter if you don't want to swap sub-palettes, move things you don't constantly need somewhere else, only keep what you would constantly need. I don't have any videos of myself but I had something similar to this person https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkAJO1j--PM ramegid and grantz (dark and light) as I mentioned before the only 2 elements I would bother to put on my sub-palette - I would additionally have the weapon action bound to another key and not take up a weapon palette slot. This person also scrolls through weapons for weapon swapping, you can reduce the time if you have a gaming mouse and just bind it to some key.

And yes, Jetboots was the only weapon with double jump unless someone uses a double jump ring.