Why I left FFXIV for PSO2

@Archetype-Luna said in Why I left FFXIV for PSO2:

Sub based or f2p does not matter when it comes to the main factors that make FFXIV so amazing. Good management and Communication with the developers are two factors that are critical to FFXIV that could be easily adopted by any live service game. The things that Yoshi P have stated at GDC all those years ago are universal to live service games, not just sub based MMO's. Those principles are based on respecting their players.

Sub based and free to play actually greatly differ in their marketing strategies. Subscription-based is a relic of a bygone era that depends on monthly/annually/however they charge per year payment system that funnels money into the continued service of the game, with cash shops and non-expansion dlc often serving as side gigs. Often these games allow you to buy your way into the service and you are given certain features that may be expanded upon through the cash shop. This method heavily depends on a steady playerbase to thrive. Their ultimate goal is to attract new players to the game, which means a strong marketing team and a reputation (either positive or negative, it doesn't matter as long as it attracts curious folk) are a must to continually attract customers.

Free to play limits features from their general playerbase (the free players) under a paywall that is either a recurring sub or paying for time by the days/month/year. This style of game usually attempts to place emphasis on their cash shop (either gacha-oriented with certain rates to obtain very powerful characters, gear, etc., expansion slots, quality of life features) to funnel money into the continued service of the game. This method heavily depends on what the Internet likes to refer to as "whales," the big spenders that then funnel those highly desired items into the free economy. If there are no whales, then there must be many general spenders that throw a few bucks every here and there to thrive. Strong marketing (which I feel is lacking on the SoA side) is a must, otherwise you must then cater to your current playerbase for revenue.

Granted, communication is a general good idea and I feel that PSO2 does communicate... often... with its playerbase, although it could use some improvement in owning up to its faults rather than swipe them under the rug of a small font line in a maintenance log. This leads into management, which is hard to point blame since we do not know how much of a manhandle Sega of Japan has over Sega of America. A lot of this forum is under the assumption that SoA is doing all of this and never seems to think that perhaps SoJ may be the ones deciding or having a say on actions to be implemented in the global version, or even Microsoft for that matter.

Actually look through my post history sometime; though spare a bit of time because it is quite long. While censorship is definitely the most visible complaint I've had; I've made plenty of other complaints on different subjects. I've sent more feedback than just censorship complaints. I have even stated before that censorship is just one step in what I believe is needed: a unified service. Like that is the main reason why I am so critical of censorship, because it is an obstacle towards a unified service and equity between the Global and JP servers. Plus censorship is a waste of development time and money.

When I hear of talks of the censorship, I wonder if people remember FFXIV. The common complaint on the xiv forums is the severe lack of content during droughts because resources were placed elsewhere (fashion, Bozja, etc.) when they don't take into account that businesses have different departments. I believe a dev even said that certain departments keep themselves busy when they have finished all of their mandated work and that is where a lot of the cash shop items come from, but don't quote me on that. Point is, different departments have different responsibilities and obligations all of which depends on the company to tell them what to do. Nobody knows where the money goes or what the budget is, so you can't really argue that localization (or censorship as you call it) is a waste of money.

@Monomate said in Why I left FFXIV for PSO2:

@Archetype-Luna said in Why I left FFXIV for PSO2: Sub based and free to play actually greatly differ in their marketing strategies. Subscription-based is a relic of a bygone era that depends on monthly/annually/however they charge per year payment system that funnels money into the continued service of the game, with cash shops and non-expansion dlc often serving as side gigs. Often these games allow you to buy your way into the service and you are given certain features that may be expanded upon through the cash shop. This method heavily depends on a steady playerbase to thrive. Their ultimate goal is to attract new players to the game, which means a strong marketing team and a reputation (either positive or negative, it doesn't matter as long as it attracts curious folk) are a must to continually attract customers.

Free to play limits features from their general playerbase (the free players) under a paywall that is either a recurring sub or paying for time by the days/month/year. This style of game usually attempts to place emphasis on their cash shop (either gacha-oriented with certain rates to obtain very powerful characters, gear, etc., expansion slots, quality of life features) to funnel money into the continued service of the game. This method heavily depends on what the Internet likes to refer to as "whales," the big spenders that then funnel those highly desired items into the free economy. If there are no whales, then there must be many general spenders that throw a few bucks every here and there to thrive. Strong marketing (which I feel is lacking on the SoA side) is a must, otherwise you must then cater to your current playerbase for revenue.

I never said marketing was one of the key factors for FFXIV's success so I am not sure why you are focusing so much on this.

Again, two factors that make FFXIV so amazing are the communication the players have with the developers and the management. I don't see how being f2p means Sega can't take some lessons from FFXIV on this. Also, I don't see how the presentation Yoshi P gave at GDC doesn't apply to PSO2 either. It is pretty universal because it revolves around respecting your players. Regardless of whether a player is f2p or a whale, Sega should respect them. Even if a f2p isn't spending money, they are still benefitting a game as a larger population can attract more players, who may be whales. If a game's population drops too low, whales are going to leave.

Granted, communication is a general good idea and I feel that PSO2 does communicate... often... with its playerbase, although it could use some improvement in owning up to its faults rather than swipe them under the rug of a small font line in a maintenance log. This leads into management, which is hard to point blame since we do not know how much of a manhandle Sega of Japan has over Sega of America. A lot of this forum is under the assumption that SoA is doing all of this and never seems to think that perhaps SoJ may be the ones deciding or having a say on actions to be implemented in the global version, or even Microsoft for that matter.

The general consensus is that PSO2 doesn't really communicate with its player base. If the assumption is that SoA is calling the shots, they are very likely wrong. In PSU, it was SoJ calling all of the shots and they neglected the western version as they put all of their attention on JP. It is still Sega of Japan that is the ones calling the main shots. The GM's have stated that when they forward feedback, they are translating it into Japanese first, as the developers are Japanese. It is no secret that Sega outsourced Global's customer service from EstSoft. So there really isn't any real communication with Sega. Nothing like the letters from the product that FFXIV has; of note, PSO2 JP used to have something like that before NGS.

When I hear of talks of the censorship, I wonder if people remember FFXIV. The common complaint on the xiv forums is the severe lack of content during droughts because resources were placed elsewhere (fashion, Bozja, etc.) when they don't take into account that businesses have different departments. I believe a dev even said that certain departments keep themselves busy when they have finished all of their mandated work and that is where a lot of the cash shop items come from, but don't quote me on that. Point is, different departments have different responsibilities and obligations all of which depends on the company to tell them what to do. Nobody knows where the money goes or what the budget is, so you can't really argue that localization (or censorship as you call it) is a waste of money.

No, I believe I really can say censorship is a waste of money. I highly doubt that they don't have any other tasks other than censoring items that could be done. From making new cosmetics, bug fixes, etc. For example, instead of having someone modify the game's code to handle the removed cutscenes (like make the Phaleg fight unlock on a different story quest), maybe that person could have fixed the poster bug that was caused due to missing a file. Maybe rather than have someone change Master to Handler, they could have tried making some headway on the flavor text for items, especially when some of the SG furnishings relied on their flavor text to explain what they were used for. Someone is getting paid to censor things, which means that person could have been doing other tasks if they didn't have to censor things. Thus time and money was wasted on censorship. Also, localization doesn't need to include censorship and I wouldn't call the censorship that PSO2 is doing, localization, as it is completely unnecessary and is coming at the cost of quality in actual localization.

@Archetype-Luna said in Why I left FFXIV for PSO2:

I never said marketing was one of the key factors for FFXIV's success so I am not sure why you are focusing so much on this.

Again, two factors that make FFXIV so amazing are the communication the players have with the developers and the management. I don't see how being f2p means Sega can't take some lessons from FFXIV on this. Also, I don't see how the presentation Yoshi P gave at GDC doesn't apply to PSO2 either. It is pretty universal because it revolves around respecting your players. Regardless of whether a player is f2p or a whale, Sega should respect them. Even if a f2p isn't spending money, they are still benefitting a game as a larger population can attract more players, who may be whales. If a game's population drops too low, whales are going to leave.

It does make a bunch of sense if you're talking about a company making money. Money turns into profit and budget for the company's projects. You're trying to say that PSO2 should copy what SE is doing with their game, but you're comparing a sub-based game's performance with a free to play model. That doesn't make sense. That's like saying Devil May Cry is such an awesome series, Sega should look into how they handled their games and use that knowledge in the development of the next Super Monkey Ball. Yeah, you can talk very generally about customer service and communicating your procedures with your consumer base but you could arguably do that with anything. PSO2 also has not "died" like FFXIV has. Is Sega not telling you how they budget their expenses a lack of respect? Is their Twitter generating memes a form of respect? You are not saying what you want, and frankly, a company may not be able to consider the feedback if you argue for change but never say what needs to change and where. Not saying you haven't but I haven't seen suggestions in your replies.

The general consensus is that PSO2 doesn't really communicate with its player base. If the assumption is that SoA is calling the shots, they are very likely wrong. In PSU, it was SoJ calling all of the shots and they neglected the western version as they put all of their attention on JP. It is still Sega of Japan that is the ones calling the main shots. The GM's have stated that when they forward feedback, they are translating it into Japanese first, as the developers are Japanese. It is no secret that Sega outsourced Global's customer service from EstSoft. So there really isn't any real communication with Sega. Nothing like the letters from the product that FFXIV has; of note, PSO2 JP used to have something like that before NGS.

Very likely wrong is not wrong, though. You are talking like you know how Sega operates. I don't think I can have a good conversation with you if you communicate your point of view this way. "The GM's have stated that when they forward feedback, they are translating it into Japanese first, as the developers are Japanese." FFXIV also operates Japan first with translation coming not far behind. That's not really a frowned upon practice. That just means the source is in a different country than an English speaking one. To then forward that information to a third party would leave them with the responsibility of determining a suitable action that needs approval from the company itself before making a response public. Seeing some of the responses from the vocal minority on social media, I would agree that sometimes the best stance is to remain silent. For some things. Not all things need a response otherwise you will fan the flames of media attention.

No, I believe I really can say censorship is a waste of money. I highly doubt that they don't have any other tasks other than censoring items that could be done. From making new cosmetics, bug fixes, etc. For example, instead of having someone modify the game's code to handle the removed cutscenes (like make the Phaleg fight unlock on a different story quest), maybe that person could have fixed the poster bug that was caused due to missing a file. Maybe rather than have someone change Master to Handler, they could have tried making some headway on the flavor text for items, especially when some of the SG furnishings relied on their flavor text to explain what they were used for. Someone is getting paid to censor things, which means that person could have been doing other tasks if they didn't have to censor things. Thus time and money was wasted on censorship. Also, localization doesn't need to include censorship and I wouldn't call the censorship that PSO2 is doing, localization, as it is completely unnecessary and is coming at the cost of quality in actual localization.

"Master to Handler, they could have tried making some headway on the flavor text for items, especially when some of the SG furnishings relied on their flavor text to explain what they were used for."? You are assuming the same person that changes an aspect of a game to one thing is also responsible for the flavor text on weapons. Fixing code on a quest to instead fixing a furnishing glitch? I don't know, my dude. This is going into conspiracy theory territory.

The cool thing about FFXIV is that some of their devs spent free time (not off hours. free time that they were paid on the clock when done with their job) to make male Viera possible. What you are suggesting would be if someone said, "Maybe the devs should have spent their Viera time with making a new Ultimate." This would not make sense, because who is to say the same person that works on Ultimate raids is the same person that fixes clothes on character models do the same amount of work? That is what you are suggesting here, under the assumption that the person that changed a questline could fix a big, game breaking glitch. I don't understand. And to add onto that point, the Viera stuff would not even be possible if those devs didn't dedicate spare time to this cause that the company didn't even want to budget for. Could this be the alternate future for PSO2's amazing flavor text? We may never know.

@Monomate said in Why I left FFXIV for PSO2:

It does make a bunch of sense if you're talking about a company making money. Money turns into profit and budget for the company's projects. You're trying to say that PSO2 should copy what SE is doing with their game, but you're comparing a sub-based game's performance with a free to play model. That doesn't make sense. That's like saying Devil May Cry is such an awesome series, Sega should look into how they handled their games and use that knowledge in the development of the next Super Monkey Ball. Yeah, you can talk very generally about customer service and communicating your procedures with your consumer base but you could arguably do that with anything. PSO2 also has not "died" like FFXIV has. Is Sega not telling you how they budget their expenses a lack of respect? Is their Twitter generating memes a form of respect? You are not saying what you want, and frankly, a company may not be able to consider the feedback if you argue for change but never say what needs to change and where. Not saying you haven't but I haven't seen suggestions in your replies.

Except the parts I am specifically mentioning can be copied regardless of f2p or sub. You don't need to be subscription based to actually communicate with your players or have good management. The things Yoshi P stayed at GDC are not exclusive to subscription based games, they can be universally applied to any live service games. A good game is likely to make more money than a dying game; best part is that they actually used to do this a bit in PSO2 JP, before NGS.

Sega's lack of respect comes from how they are refusing to communicate, their poor management, and, in particular to foreign players, their preferential treatment of the JP servers. The PSO2 devs used to do something similar to FFXIV's live letters, albeit only for JP.

Also, this isn't exactly the suggestions forum. I've posted suggestions before, most of them are rather simple like stop unnecessarily censoring things. Or during the release of the SG Scratch in EP3 I noted where they could add SG sources. I have stated multiple times in other threads that there should be no difference in how Global is treated vs how JP is treated.

Very likely wrong is not wrong, though. You are talking like you know how Sega operates. I don't think I can have a good conversation with you if you communicate your point of view this way. "The GM's have stated that when they forward feedback, they are translating it into Japanese first, as the developers are Japanese." FFXIV also operates Japan first with translation coming not far behind. That's not really a frowned upon practice. That just means the source is in a different country than an English speaking one. To then forward that information to a third party would leave them with the responsibility of determining a suitable action that needs approval from the company itself before making a response public. Seeing some of the responses from the vocal minority on social media, I would agree that sometimes the best stance is to remain silent. For some things. Not all things need a response otherwise you will fan the flames of media attention.

You can see EstSoft in the credits. Also, past entries in the game had Sega of Japan call the shots. GM's translating feedback to Japanese means the person receiving the feedback predominately speaks and reads Japanese. Why translate the feedback to Japanese if the person calling the shots is Sega of America? So it is incredibly unlikely that Sega of Japan is not the main party in power.

Also, FFXIV doesn't operate with a Japan first mindset. Anything obtainable by a JP player is obtainable by a player in any other region. It is all one service. The NA and EU servers aren't part of a separate service than JP. There is no difference between the clients either; the client used in JP for FFXIV is the same as the client used in NA or EU. They even have used live translators to take and answer questions live from foreign players.

"Master to Handler, they could have tried making some headway on the flavor text for items, especially when some of the SG furnishings relied on their flavor text to explain what they were used for."? You are assuming the same person that changes an aspect of a game to one thing is also responsible for the flavor text on weapons. Fixing code on a quest to instead fixing a furnishing glitch? I don't know, my dude. This is going into conspiracy theory territory.

I'm not though? I am talking about text changes. The aux support units you had in PSO2 used to call you master during EP1-4 on Global, but then they later changed it to handler. Rather than doing that, they could have added some more detailed flavor texts for crafting furnishings.

Also, if you are capable of fixing code for a quest, you should be able to at least put in code to prevent the game from crashing when it doesn't find a file. Any programmer should be able to do this; it is a simple try catch exception and have it load a placeholder.

The cool thing about FFXIV is that some of their devs spent free time (not off hours. free time that they were paid on the clock when done with their job) to make male Viera possible. What you are suggesting would be if someone said, "Maybe the devs should have spent their Viera time with making a new Ultimate." This would not make sense, because who is to say the same person that works on Ultimate raids is the same person that fixes clothes on character models do the same amount of work? That is what you are suggesting here, under the assumption that the person that changed a questline could fix a big, game breaking glitch. I don't understand. And to add onto that point, the Viera stuff would not even be possible if those devs didn't dedicate spare time to this cause that the company didn't even want to budget for. Could this be the alternate future for PSO2's amazing flavor text? We may never know.

What I am suggesting is nothing of the sort. I compared text changes to text changes, and programming cases to other programming cases. Master being changed to handler and flavor texts are just simple text edits. While quest unlocks and the poster bug are programming fixes; with the poster bug being a much simpler task since it was just a basic io exception where a file was missing from the global version. No where am I saying anything like the people making male viera should have worked on another ultimate. If you actually look at the pairs, I kept them similar to one another.

The game breaking room glitch had a community fix floating around on the forums for months. All that was happening was that the game was crashing because it could not find a texture file for a poster. A community fix was people just took the files from the JP version and plopped them where it should be on the global client. Could also have been hotfixed with a try catch exception to just load a placeholder if it can't find the file. To be honest, I am surprised that the game didn't do this to begin with; it's kind of programming 101 to be ready for IO errors like this; catching exceptions is something you should have learned in the first year of any curriculum that teaches programming.

Man this topic aged like milk