Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly

I do think the tone was a little off by saying "playing Br properly" personally, or "being a drag to your teammates" as every class has some form of learning to it, and screwups are inevitable even to the best players. I think the intentions are good, but it just isn't worded correctly -- and just my assumption, but I'm guessing English isn't OP's first language, no offense meant. My initial response is just in regards to the massive post OP responded with to what looked to me as a meme on reddit.

I understand the whole thread. BrHu can let you play aggressive and make mistakes, whereas BrPh has less room for those mistakes. BrPh is undoubtedly stronger, but that doesn't mean you need to rush into it. But similarly, sticking to BrHu or practicing elsewhere isn't necessarily needed. Instead of going for that Grace Might on your units, maybe use Grace Stamina instead so you have more room for error. I'm not saying go all out on the HP, but making some sacrifices to get a little more would be nice. EP6 hurts anyways and even if you are arguably above average, you aren't getting away with 1000 hp really. Not even with a Hunter sub.

Every class has a learning curve -- it's really up to you to not only push yourself towards it, but to give yourself the tools, take the time to do content and practice, look at other's examples, finding the keybinds you feel work best for you, etcetera in order to do well with it. This thread was just meant as a warning that although you might have heard BrPh is a better class combo than BrHu, BrPh is much harder and more dangerous, and you may want to make sure you understand how core parries are to Braver before getting into it.

If you still aren't too confident, global has had access to the buffed Guts drink. This will increase your HP by 50%, meaning you can take a few hits before dying, but at the cost of damage. However, SOME damage is better than none. You can utilize this while still getting used to using techs for movement/positioning, even doing solo things like masq by dropping megiverse or zanverse or whatever, just to get yourself some confidence in the class.

Which is the point I got as well. My whole meaning is it could of been phrased better. I like the way you worded it just fine and that information is helpful. My braver is a bow braver so I don't go in recklessly doing anything. However my fiance very much so does so when phantom hits this is something I'll make sure he knows or is aware of. My entire point is that this information could of been given out in a nicer format. I personally get tired of people knocking everyone down when they are just trying to enjoy a game.

I come to the forum for advice and to chat with others. I appreciate the advice and help I receive. I also like to give advice or ask for clarification and I make it a point to do so nicely. So when I see other people not being nice about it I gotta wonder why the tude?

I forgot to mention Guts drink too. Global has buffed Guts drink, so if you're really scared about dying, or really trying to get used to a class, it's a great option even if it sacrifices a bit of DPS. I'm not saying you should always take Guts drink when I say this, as other drinks are always going to be the better option, but if you're learning a class, or you don't feel like your gear is great or you feel like you're getting one shotted left and right.. it's honestly a good option. Especially because you're not just going to swap from BrHu to BrPh and instantly have the muscle memory to be using techs. Not even BrSu to BrPh will do that properly because of the differences in charge times.

Their also are those who like to sabotage other people build or thought process and calculations to levitate themselves as top players.

So called misinformation is real. You really never know who these people in game because their idea differ from their forum ID. It easy to say someone build is trash when you not revealing your own or have the opportunity to see them in live action play.

OP does not have any visible game play to back up his or her thoughts into the claim of properly playing a class mechanic effectively.

@Vexation said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

^ Actually learn to play your class? Hostile at best. Implies no one knows how to play the class other than OP. People do. Not everyone is incompetent.

no matter how it is worded the message is exactly the same, would you prefer "I highly recommend brushing up your gameplay" instead?

you can word it in the nicest way possible and someone will still get offended because they realize that they may be in the wrong

"actually learn how to play your class" is a valid statement to make because it is made in the context of dropping the extremely strong safety nets that hu sub lets you have which basically allows you to throw yourself at the enemy until it dies, doing that in UH without hu sub is a death sentence

^ People are gonna die a lot in UH and in UQ's until they get the right balance down. It's that way with every single UQ release and new content release I've ever seen. There is a learning curve. Again, not helpful information and makes OP seem like a jerk that has no paitence with anyone.

UH is an extremely big leap over XH to the point where it has to be highlighted, those UQs also gain UH as an option

XH persona slapping you during your first time doing the quest probably won't kill you but if he was UH instead then he 100% will, maybe even twice in the one attack

"dying 10 times" will not be an exaggeration for a lot of players because UH does hit that hard unless you have defensive solutions, later UH quests frequently put you in situations where you realistically cannot avoid every hit and those hits usually hurt very badly

"Don't become a drag for other players" Let people try it out at least. Phantom isn't even here yet. And people may decide they'd rather play the same as they always have and keep hunter subclass. This again comes across as unescessary and it's more OP's personal attitude rather than helpful.

not being a drag is simply common courtesy in a multiplayer game that's heavily focused on auto-matchmaking

the post was a forewarning, not a demand

nothing is stopping you from trying ph sub for yourself but if you read OP's post before doing so, don't get surprised when he turns out to be right

not having any safety nets significantly changes how you can approach the various situations that the game throws at you so it is a warning that ideally should be listened to, braver is one of the few classes that can't really sub et when they want to have a lot of survivability for close to no negative effect

And apparently I need to say it once again. Nothing wrong with the advice OP was trying to give but once again his attitude while giving it was unnecessary.

@Neek said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

not being a drag is simply common courtesy in a multiplayer game that's heavily focused on auto-matchmaking

I find this extremely lacking in many Western MMOs communities - whether it is in this game or other games such as FFXIV. It is why you get much more AFK/leecher complain threads and awhile ago the please upgrade your gear before going in SH difficulty thread. Giving advise typically results in the

@Alun said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

You don't pay my sub

mentality or being accused of elitism with ulterior motives.

@HarmlessSyan said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

I find this extremely lacking in many Western MMOs communities - whether it is in this game or other games such as FFXIV. It is why you get much more AFK/leecher complain threads

Funny enough, JP had this issue at around the same time and issued public statements saying you will be banned for abandonment, and specifically laid out the conditions that they were looking out for to lay down the hammer, such as being the first to specifically leave mid-quest multiple times. So it's actually not just a western MMO thing, since this implies the issue existed on JP at the same time.

Buster Quests, certain Tower Defense missions, Dragon when it had a death limit, and more had this issue.

@Theuberclips the abandonment was not targeted at AFK/Leechers, it was targetted at people leaving full MPA knowing they are most likely going to fail the MPA. Translation http://www.bumped.org/psublog/pso2-emergency-quest-cancellation-policy/

I think the initial target was the mining base defenses where people would leave when you lose towers early on - it really became prominent during pre-nerf Deus Esca where if people saw the MPA has no DPS to pass the 5min dps check, they would just leave.

EDIT: I agree it is not courteous to do so leaving the MPA, and I don't condone abandoning your MPA but it was obvious when some of the groups taking on the urgents were hopeless. For dragon, I never had anyone leave on me, but I will admit I did kind of lose my temper once when 1 player used up all 3 of the death counts. I queue with 1 other friend and matched with 2 randoms, after that guy died the 2nd time we were ready to just carry him and beat the dragon with 3 people. But he either went back to the gateway ship or scape dolled and died again.

The content on JP were much more difficult for the time when these content came out - there were no OP Nemesis/Raven-NT or taking on these quests at a much higher level when it was originally released. Failure rate on non-expert matching can be relatively high for certain fights. The DPS check for pre-nerf Deus Esca for every person in MPA was not something easily achieved - though the top players can probably do several times more than the required DPS.

@HarmlessSyan Yeah, fair. I have run into AFKers and leechers on JP as well, I forget the name of the one person I blacklisted but I'd been in an urgent with them twice and both times they'd literally just run to a corner and AFK. Didn't seem like an english speaking player either based off the name.

Realistically I think the issue is there's no statistic for people that have been banned for AFKing on global. The only complaints of "aaaa i got banned wtf!!" have been from people that were either found out to be cheating or RMTing. As far as I've seen.

I just want people to be trying really, I can't ask for much more than that, considering I made a lot of the same mistakes as others made early on what with not enhancing my weapon, affixing somewhat poorly, and so on. Honestly, wasn't until I started going for Expert that I really started getting a grasp on the game -- which I didn't go for at first simply because I didn't know of it's existence.

@Sparhawk the game sure does not care. The 9ne that do are players, and player are quick to outcast someone if they don't pull their weight.

In JP people get kicked put of UQ even on non Veteran Mode instanced content.

They will put down the beacon, let you join the party, and the first time you die 3 times in a row and wonder why the people in the MPAZ are leaving, is all rdy too late.

There's no theorycrafting, there's no learning the meachanics on your own. The game is 8 years old. It got a rigid META and a demanding skill ceiling set in stone by players themselves. And if you don't follow it, you get 2 choice.

1- Play with premades or your Alliance 2- Fall in the META

@JoiningVase4637 said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

@Sparhawk the game sure does not care. The 9ne that do are players, and player are quick to outcast someone if they don't pull their weight.

In JP people get kicked put of UQ even on non Veteran Mode instanced content.

this is demonstrably false. there is no other way to say it

@JoiningVase4637 said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

player are quick to outcast someone if they don't pull their weight. In JP people get kicked put of UQ even on non Veteran Mode instanced content. They will put down the beacon, let you join the party, and the first time you die 3 times in a row and wonder why the people in the MPAZ are leaving, is all rdy too late. There's no theorycrafting, there's no learning the meachanics on your own. The game is 8 years old. It got a rigid META and a demanding skill ceiling set in stone by players themselves. And if you don't follow it, you get 2 choice. 1- Play with premades or your Alliance 2- Fall in the META

what are you smoking

well OP just fucking murdered his own thread with this post lmao, it's a legitimate warning and he just threw any legitimacy he had out the window

@Milranduil This has only happened to be once on the Japanese side if anything and that was because at the time I was a Level 80 Hero when every other class except the Hero was able to go up to Level 85. For that particular quest I got frustrated enough with trying to find groups that I eventually just went in to solo the Black Dragon because of the hostility I got from other English-speaking players there.

Beyond that from my impressions of other players, the ones who have the ability to chat-and-play and the ones to backseat-game for others even in the middle of an Emergency Quest are the people to me who are expecting to be carried and this translates to the global version for me as well. I have not encountered any particular "hyper-elite" players other than the saltier players who leave a Good Job/Kudos message to essentially shame you for your fashion, your gameplay choices (class, equipment, and the likes), or that you didn't help them get their record clear they expected. A part of this personally makes me ashamed to have been on the Gaijin ship as some of my Japanese friends were seemingly put off by some of the more obnoxious foreign players there as well.

@VanillaLucia said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

@Milranduil This has only happened to be once on the Japanese side if anything and that was because at the time I was a Level 80 Hero when every other class except the Hero was able to go up to Level 85. For that particular quest I got frustrated enough with trying to find groups that I eventually just went in to solo the Black Dragon because of the hostility I got from other English-speaking players there.

Beyond that from my impressions of other players, the ones who have the ability to chat-and-play and the ones to backseat-game for others even in the middle of an Emergency Quest are the people to me who are expecting to be carried and this translates to the global version for me as well. I have not encountered any particular "hyper-elite" players other than the saltier players who leave a Good Job/Kudos message to essentially shame you for your fashion, your gameplay choices (class, equipment, and the likes), or that you didn't help them get their record clear they expected. A part of this personally makes me ashamed to have been on the Gaijin ship as some of my Japanese friends were seemingly put off by some of the more obnoxious foreign players there as well.

it's funny to me because the vast majority of JP players i've interacted with don't mind all of the foreigners on ship2 or all over twitter. they do their thing or join them with memes. i've encountered less than 5 players over 8 years who genuinely get annoyed at foreigners playin on the jp version, and it's usually some cultural stuff. completely unrelated to class choice, gameplay, etc.