Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly

The problem with the guides is there are many and some have conflicting information. You can't expect everyone to learn just from guides. There is also some skill at play which will take practice no matter what class you play and some peoples skill level might not be on par with your own. Just cause you can do something and know something doesn't mean everyone else does and to talk down on everyone really does make you sound like a dick. It's really not needed. If someone wishes to give actual advice I'll listen but when the advice is "Episode 6 is coming git good trash" then I'm a lot less likely to listen and wonder just what the hell that person's issue is. If you wanna give advice I'd look to how VanillaLucia does it. They are able to clearly state the issue they think players might run into and why and then offer suggestions for how they might overcome said situation all without sounding like a condescending jerk face.

I understand being frustrated. It can't be easy watching people mess about with a class you are good at or care about and you gotta be sitting there going "WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU DOING IT THAT WAY AHHHH?!!!?!?!" but seriously. Don't talk down to everyone because of it. Just makes you out to be a jerk and come across as toxic.

@JoiningVase4637 People won't want to play with me huh? Same could be said of you if you keep being condescending like that. I play a Ret Paladin in WoW Classic, and I don't drag anyone down. Games are meant for people to have fun, I'm not going to change how I play for others. They can deal with it because why have options for how you play if people are gonna say "play this or don't play"? People like that, like YOU, are missing the point of why games exist in the first place. I consider myself good at this game. Perfect? No, but good enough to do the content and have fun doing it. As I always say, if the boss dies it doesn't matter how messy it gets.

You're also gonna get people way worse than me at some point. Wonder how you're gonna treat THEM.

@JoiningVase4637 said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

@Rang-Dipkin is not like that actually. I was just saying to avoid Vets input such as muself. 'Cause if you ask out there people will tell ya to go sub Ph, without explaining why is better and HOW it's better.

Nobody takes the time to explain stuff to new players, they just give for granted that people know how to play their class, wich, is not true.

Is not bringin a problem out before is here. I've all rdy saw this, and experienced it when UH got release in JP. I was one of the aboce mentioned face tanking Braver. I don't think is erong letting people know that Ph sub is best only if you play Braver correctly and drop the Bad habits that come with Hu sub. Othereise, Hu sub is still better.

No worries, I didn't realize this was a Reddit post otherwise I would've adjusted my expectations as to what constitutes trying to help. For Reddit this was a step above "get good", but I agree with Vexation that compared to the vets here that give advice it came off like that to me. I understand your intent better from these follow-up posts and appreciate you sharing your perspective.

As you say, having a vet tell you to practice dodging/parrying isn't as helpful as telling them when certain enemies/attacks should be dodged vs parried vs facetanked, how to identify tells in attack animations for upcoming content, what PAs have the most iFrames, how many points to invest in Sidestep Plus, how much health to build towards to prevent getting 1-hit by most enemies, how to affix units to get to that health total, etc. So when I didn't see anything along those lines it raised a red flag.

I apologize for being overly harsh as my only goal was to tell the new players not to feel ashamed if it takes time to learn new content as apparently you did over on JP. I'm just not a fan of people pushing their assumptions about how the game "should" be played on others, but if the original post had all the qualifiers and personal anecdotes of the replies you've posted I would've been totally silent on the issue.

@RainGnyu said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

@JoiningVase4637 said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

@Theuberclips there's no need you do. We might never be in the same MPA. But if you happen to be on it, and suck , with this attitude, i would let you stay on the ground the entirety of the quest.

As many other JP vets will do. In UH people are not going to carry your ass. And nobody is gonna be understanding if you don't play correctly.

With this said, enjoy the game in your own way. Nut don't expect others to let you do. 'Cause they will not.

Like in any other MMO. Hopes this makes it clear.

JP has been doing that anyway! They the first to shout, something along the lines, “Trash” is the coin phrase.

But what is funny is to me is that most of these JP veterans are really NA who gotten, what I call early access to game mechanics from true Japanese veterans true Pro player who was kind enough and patience enough to share information without the condescending tones of superiority!

yeah i'm sure people will take it kindly when a person more knowledgeable than them tells them that they're not doing something right, everything is definitely flowers and rainbows in the world of pso2

give people advice based off of years of knowledge only to be called 'condescending' when they're told that their class setup or whatever isn't good and then they decide that they don't want help anymore, cue random comment somewhere (probably here) saying all ''''jp vets'''' are elitist scum that are just trying to bully na players into playing 'meta' builds instead of their dad gamer br/bo build

OP's post was literally just a warning to people who might've seen videos or guides for br/ph from those so-called jp vets or maybe even na content creators (lmao) because the high damage mobs in UH will stomp on people who aren't prepared for it and yet this is somehow a problem that warrants a 5 page thread

misinformation is very dangerous when the time comes to actually help people because it tends to spread incredibly quickly with basically no way to stop it if it gets too embedded into regular talk and then everyone is just worse off (note: jp has this issue very frequently too)

you can't win trying to help people

At no point did OP mention a video or state this was a warning about possible misinformation in his original post. How else were we supposed to take it? He literally said "Learn to play the class" I'd like to point out that your subclass changes how you play anyways. So people switching sub to phantom for the extra damage would already be aware they didn't have hunters automate anymore and would thus have to learn/alter their playstyle. This is common sense. Which doesn't warrant the attitude with which the information was given out in the first place. If you want to be helpful there are ways to and not to go about it.

I'd like to also add that two new classes that can be used as both a main and a sub plus a new difficulty level means a learning curve all around. So people can and are going to make mistakes as they figure it all out. No amount of advice good or otherwise will replace experience so if everyone could give out a little less "git good trash" and have a little more patience then it'd be an overall better time for everyone.

@Rang-Dipkin said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

As you say, having a vet tell you to practice dodging/parrying isn't as helpful as telling them when certain enemies/attacks should be dodged vs parried vs facetanked, how to identify tells in attack animations for upcoming content, what PAs have the most iFrames, how many points to invest in Sidestep Plus, how much health to build towards to prevent getting 1-hit by most enemies, how to affix units to get to that health total, etc. So when I didn't see anything along those lines it raised a red flag.

We probably should be reminding people to respec for 0 Sidestep Plus if they're planning to swap to Scion class subs. I've been reminding my alliance, but that's not much compared to the reach some people have.

@AiC-L That's something I've never heard of. What's that mean exactly?

@JoiningVase4637 said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

@Milk this was exactly the meaning of the post. Was a way of telling people: experiment the feel for it now, taste what it means with your hands.

There's no shame in staying Hu sub instead of Ph, till somebody get's the hang of it. Was just an invite to practice now that people can, without being a drag to others.

Yeah I agree with that!

@Vexation said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

@AiC-L That's something I've never heard of. What's that mean exactly?

Scion classes automatically give you the equivalent of 4 points in Sidestep Plus or Advanced Dive Roll for free. The skill is called Step Roll Advance. There's really no point in going higher than that due to diminishing returns, so if you're going to stick with a Scion subclass you may as well respec the points with the ticket. Personally, I'm going to be keeping my 4 points on RA, but that's because the ability to swap back to RA/HU for certain content is worth more to me than 4 points in the leftover skills I could be taking.

This also means that Br/Ph can be viewed as having more survivability than Br/Hu if you aren't getting pasted by every stray hit and can engage with the defensive mechanics. It's got techs, speedcast, sprintcasting, more iframes, and better PP maintenance to use all that. On the other hand, if you can actually use all that to its fullest effect you probably aren't getting much of a boost out of it.

@AiC-L - Thanks for that. I didn't know ^^

@Vexation said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

At no point did OP mention a video or state this was a warning about possible misinformation in his original post. How else were we supposed to take it? He literally said "Learn to play the class" I'd like to point out that your subclass changes how you play anyways. So people switching sub to phantom for the extra damage would already be aware they didn't have hunters automate anymore and would thus have to learn/alter their playstyle. This is common sense. Which doesn't warrant the attitude with which the information was given out in the first place. If you want to be helpful there are ways to and not to go about it.

thank you for pointing out the exact reason threads like this are necessary. tons of players have no common sense, jp or na alike.

for what it's worth to try and be helpful, my youtube is littered with br/ph gameplay of tons of ep6 content if anyone is actually trying to prepare for dropping hu sub.

@Vexation said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

At no point did OP mention a video or state this was a warning about possible misinformation in his original post. How else were we supposed to take it? He literally said "Learn to play the class"

@JoiningVase4637 said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

So,before jumping on the Bandwagon

this implies that it's a popular choice in the community somewhere and that would most likely be due to 'hype' from either former jp players or content creators of some sorts

@Vexation said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

I'd like to point out that your subclass changes how you play anyways. So people switching sub to phantom for the extra damage would already be aware they didn't have hunters automate anymore and would thus have to learn/alter their playstyle. This is common sense. Which doesn't warrant the attitude with which the information was given out in the first place. If you want to be helpful there are ways to and not to go about it.

it's nice that you believe in your fellow players but the amount of br i've seen who are subbing su and don't even have summoner's mark on their subpalette tells me otherwise, a larger than i'd like to see percentage of players don't actually read up most things about their class or subclass. i'm not advocating for everyone to read up on sweaty nerd techniques for their class but surely knowing what the skills in your skill tree do is something that falls under 'common sense'

No amount of advice good or otherwise will replace experience so if everyone could give out a little less "git good trash" and have a little more patience then it'd be an overall better time for everyone.

telling people where to get that experience is exactly what the OP did, he wasn't even hostile with recommending people to touch up on their gameplay either

if 'git gud trash' is all you might be getting from it then once again, there's no point in trying to help if this is how hostile people are to recommendations

@Neek

I agree with you, I didn’t think OP was being malicious, just being helpful. I feel there was just a misunderstanding.

@JoiningVase4637 said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

So as title.

Br/Ph might not be for everyone. I know people don't like someone telling them this, but is true.

Right now, a lot of Br/Hu players have learned an aggressive playstyle possible thanks to the safety nets granted by Hu sub.

Altough is undeniably fun, is not possible to keep this playstyle if you people switch to Br/Ph.

Parry and positioning become more important, as well dodging.

I'm sating this 'cause i saw way too many Braver players, not putting to use the Parry mechanic and over rely on Hu sub perks, such as Automate and Iron Will.

So,before jumping on the Bandwagon might be wise to actually learn to play your class.

^ Actually learn to play your class? Hostile at best. Implies no one knows how to play the class other than OP. People do. Not everyone is incompetent.

I'll say this 'cause i don't look forward to people dying 10 times in UH quest, just 'cause they play way to aggresively with Br/Ph.

^ People are gonna die a lot in UH and in UQ's until they get the right balance down. It's that way with every single UQ release and new content release I've ever seen. There is a learning curve. Again, not helpful information and makes OP seem like a jerk that has no paitence with anyone.

Remember, what you could survive with Br/Hu, at 90% will kill ya with Br/Ph.

So, please, please, try sub Fi or Su and go practice with Masquerade your parry and dodges, as well exploit the i-frame, so that you don't become a drag for other players, and you acrually learn how you are supposed to play Br/Ph.

"Don't become a drag for other players" Let people try it out at least. Phantom isn't even here yet. And people may decide they'd rather play the same as they always have and keep hunter subclass. This again comes across as unescessary and it's more OP's personal attitude rather than helpful.

@Neek said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

@Vexation said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

At no point did OP mention a video or state this was a warning about possible misinformation in his original post. How else were we supposed to take it? He literally said "Learn to play the class"

@JoiningVase4637 said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

So,before jumping on the Bandwagon

this implies that it's a popular choice in the community somewhere and that would most likely be due to 'hype' from either former jp players or content creators of some sorts

@Vexation said in Br/Ph might not be for you if you don't learn to play Br properly:

I'd like to point out that your subclass changes how you play anyways. So people switching sub to phantom for the extra damage would already be aware they didn't have hunters automate anymore and would thus have to learn/alter their playstyle. This is common sense. Which doesn't warrant the attitude with which the information was given out in the first place. If you want to be helpful there are ways to and not to go about it.

it's nice that you believe in your fellow players but the amount of br i've seen who are subbing su and don't even have summoner's mark on their subpalette tells me otherwise, a larger than i'd like to see percentage of players don't actually read up most things about their class or subclass. i'm not advocating for everyone to read up on sweaty nerd techniques for their class but surely knowing what the skills in your skill tree do is something that falls under 'common sense'

No amount of advice good or otherwise will replace experience so if everyone could give out a little less "git good trash" and have a little more patience then it'd be an overall better time for everyone.

telling people where to get that experience is exactly what the OP did, he wasn't even hostile with recommending people to touch up on their gameplay either

if 'git gud trash' is all you might be getting from it then once again, there's no point in trying to help if this is how hostile people are to recommendations

So as you can see only part of the post was a recommendation. The other parts of it definitely detracted from that.