WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?

@NotWhoUThink said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

Also real quick question, why are we using Persona UH as a benchmark for raid bosses when there are clearly harder bosses? In JP I'm pretty sure the benchmark checking for dps is Omega Masquerade depth 999 in which case I've seen no Hunter gameplay much less a fast clear time from a Hunter main? I'm asking a serious question btw.

Omega Masquerade is not a benchmark for pure damage potential because not all classes can fight him equally. If you are playing as a Hero, Phantom, Etoile, or Luster he is more of a reflex-test because his attacks are easily countered and those classes all have ways around specifically dealing with his instant-kill (or near-instant kill) levels of damage at Depth 999. Otherwise if we were talking "purely" DPS then the Gunner/Fighter should have been wiping the floor with Omega Masquerade at Depth 999 ages ago but that has not happened due to the fight punishing even high DPS rotations (his damage resistance nullifies attacks that deal a specific fraction of his health).

The reason why Dark Falz [Persona] (UH) was even brought up in the first place was as a response to a Hunter not doing damage. The main thing to note in this specific fight is that the Hunter is one of the closest classes to playing like the Successor classes who can take a hit (and negate it at the same time due to blocking and the mechanics of Ignition Parry/Blaze Parry) and still deal damage - and in fact they're much more upfront about it than the Ranger or Force can be. Perhaps on paper the Hunter isn't so great at damage but when you look at the overall package the Hunter comes with it should be clear to see that they have a much larger advantage and level of support than the Ranger and Force do in comparison in both the range of use as a main class and subclass. Because of this it only makes combinations like the Hunter/Etoile that much better even if it acts as a quality-of-life bandage for the Ranger and Force (and especially the Force due to the woes of the Force/Techer in Episode 6). Ultra Hard as a difficulty also shifts some mechanics around so that top classes who primarily deal damage like the Gunner/Fighter and Summoner (Fighter or Phantom) don't get to shine nearly as much as they would have in the past.

@NotWhoUThink well here's a Hu/Fi at 90 cap, 4:36 which is very comparable with other classes for the time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPFbk_oN5Ls

You won't find many of those sub 3 min runs until 95 cap and with better weapons. Flaoc did a 3:37 Hero run this January at 90 cap but thats 7 months of gear progression

@NotWhoUThink said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

Also real quick question, why are we using Persona UH as a benchmark for raid bosses when there are clearly harder bosses? In JP I'm pretty sure the benchmark checking for dps is Omega Masquerade depth 999 in which case I've seen no Hunter gameplay much less a fast clear time from a Hunter main? I'm asking a serious question btw.

moving the goal post, classic. go click that person (shana's) youtube for more hunter vids

masquerade is not a benchmark because it's an evaluation of how many different damage sources a class has to kill a boss quickly.

@VanillaLucia And I'm not saying that Hunter can't put out a good amount of dps either (because it obviously can) it's like you said though comparative to other other classes it's just not as good (on paper) but I will give say Hunter does have a lot of safety nets and a good amount of I-frames to rely on, all I'm trying to say is sword Hunter isn't the best at dps on raid bosses. I do appreciate the explanation though.

@Milranduil said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

@NotWhoUThink said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

Also real quick question, why are we using Persona UH as a benchmark for raid bosses when there are clearly harder bosses? In JP I'm pretty sure the benchmark checking for dps is Omega Masquerade depth 999 in which case I've seen no Hunter gameplay much less a fast clear time from a Hunter main? I'm asking a serious question btw.

moving the goal post, classic.

I mean to be fair this thread was already off target from the original post about which scion class is the strongest.

@NotWhoUThink said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

Also Hunter sword dps is (on paper) worse than partizan dps if we're going by that logic anyways thanks to volkraptor combos.

Ignite parry has higher notational DPS even on paper but that aside paper doesn't have deal with PP or gear management or a PA that apparently works in accordance with how much it hates you in that particular moment.

@NotWhoUThink said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

And I'm not saying that Hunter can't put out a good amount of dps either (because it obviously can) it's like you said though comparative to other other classes it's just not as good (on paper) but I will give say Hunter does have a lot of safety nets and a good amount of I-frames to rely on, all I'm trying to say is sword Hunter isn't the best at dps on raid bosses. I do appreciate the explanation though.

Also not true. Hunter is notoriously one of the most powerful classes but it's issue has to do with things outside of raw damage. Mainly it's older PA design which makes most PAs wide, clunky, immobile, subject to hitstop, no/low tracking, slow start up etc which makes it more difficult to put power down and is the reason that most hunter players aren't able to 'do damage' without getting used to the class.

It's the same as driving an old but fast car. No power steering, ABS, launch control, lane assist but if you can manage it you can get mileage out of it. In regards to scion classes being strong, it's mainly because they are being designed with no weakness as a power fantasy to players so they have unlimited tools and conveniences that make doing damage easier and more consistent regardless of your skill level.

Technically, a Techter should get credit for 20% of everyone's damage.

@BloodyKyona said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

Technically, a Techter should get credit for 20% of everyone's damage.

(depending on the quest) So does ranger.

Agreed, absolutely. I dunno why the only focus these days in any game is DPS. PSO2 anyway could likely make Techter more attractive very easily by making their buffs last longer and by allowing wide area to hit the entire MPA not just your own team.

@BloodyKyona said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

Agreed, absolutely. I dunno why the only focus these days in any game is DPS. PSO2 anyway could likely make Techter more attractive very easily by making their buffs last longer and by allowing wide area to hit the entire MPA not just your own team.

I'm all for changing Techer but I believe these would be the wrong changes, Te buffs last long enough and that is not even including the fact that the person being buffed can refresh the full duration of an ongoing Techer buff by simply casting their own Shifta or using S8: Skydance Support. Your MPA should be stacking on your Zanverse anyway which should allow you to easily buff the entire MPA in bossing content. The value of any kind of Shifta even non-Techer is so valuable that classes will usually carry like a Sigma Gyler (All-Class Wired Lance that allows any-class to cast Shifta) in the case that they don't have Skydance.

I think trying to make wand more attractive would be a better idea, as Techers whole gimmick is seen as a support class that bonks enemies with wand and can cast spells if it wants too, however I feel like that wand aspect of it really falls off. Sure a meaty Photonic Fury is pretty satisfying but when you going up against a big boss your pretty much in Zanverse & buff maintenance mode squeezing in damage when you can, with Zanverse only lasting 5.5 seconds it dosen't give you that much time.

I have a lot more fun using Gunslash as Te/Lu since Zanverse damage isn't affected by ANYTHING except for the enemies Wind Resistance, if all your doing is buffing and maintaining Zanverse there's technically no downside to using it, along with the dmg bonus that Lu sub gives to main-class Te using Gunslash makes for much more entertaining gameplay, also Zanverse builds voltage quite well. The Deband bonus for inflicting statuses is also some grade-A stuff.

Another issue is the Zanverse stuff mentioned above that pretty much the only advantage that Te Zanverse has over any other class casting Zanverse is it's AoE. Hero, Luster, and Phantom can all cast their own Zanverse if they have a meaty hit incoming. Pretty much the only percentage based damage buff that Te can bring to the table for the entire MPA that NO other class can is a 6.895% DPS increase that comes from it's Advanced Shifta Skills, which is a multiplicative increase not additive so the skill is sort of misleading.

Gunblade TeLu is pretty bad compared to TePh in supporting people, because the longer casting and lack of Tech Charge Parry on Gunblades make you lose DPS and Zanverse uptime from casting times, and not being able to keep Zanverse up permanently in certain situations (Sodam comes to mind, unless your squad is GAMING and can keep Sodam stunned the whole way) as you can't guard against incoming attacks while charging Zanverse.

TeLu is awesome but optimally it's only really the best for solo Techter. TeRa and TePh are better otherwise for different reasons between them.

The issue with Techter is that no matter what you do with it, you're just [insert other class] but weaker and with buffs. TePh is generally just a weaker Phantom and TeLu for the most part is just a worse HuLu, except you have buffs and some support. TeEt is pretty unique I would say, but unfortunately it still falls flat in overall efficiency compared to other classes.

Incentivising the Wand is really what they should be doing, as the weapon itself doesn't really do anything particularly special, and techniques aren't anything special on Te either. It seems they're doing this in NGS as they've added another PA, but as far as I know that's all they've done.

Hero is the best and always will be.

Why are you madlads bumping my ancient threads? =_=

@Zeke said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

Hero is the best and always will be.

OHO I AGREE! Stratos's story for her creation of the Hero class is 10/10. Will never stop being a Hero for everyone. v .v

@Zarozian said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

@Zeke said in WHICH SCION CLASS DO YOU THINK IS THE STRONGEST? HERO? PHANTOM? ETOILE? LUSTER?:

Hero is the best and always will be.

OHO I AGREE! Stratos's story for her creation of the Hero class is 10/10. Will never stop being a Hero for everyone. v .v

I just like the idea for them. All advance classes are cool, but the idea of an ancient warrior being thrown into a cyber filled future was a neat idea.