Don't be that guy.

So, back on Wednesday when the new Luther Urgent Quest came up, I ran over to the quest counter and signed up for it. I was leveling an alt and jumped into Hard, the highest level that character could enter just to check out the new content and grab some xp. When I hit the Gateway ship I was the eigth player to enter. Before I could even get a drink, someone had started the countdown. I ran for the pool but the countdown ended before I could load in. Meanwhile, three more players had joined and we got to stand around and stare at each other while the cutscene played wthout us, then teleport into a fight in progress. This soured an entire day of PSO2 for me and has bugged me for the past few days. This isn't the first time this has happened, though the player count is usually full before the count down is started. So, like the title says, don't be that guy.

Hard has low enough HP that with the current gears available, a high level player with decent gear will instantly break DF Omega Loser's parts, stun him him and ultimately kill it. So it doesn't warrant a full MPA and while it's good etiquette to wait for it to fill to full capacity, it is not exactly a huge issue considering that it was possibly a carry run for you.

Usually, if you see a very high level player in an EQ in a low difficulty setting, you will be more or less carried and end up doing nothing. So the meseta spent on drink ends up a waste (unless you went for deband or drop rate). As long as you were able to get in time to claim the reward/xp, you shouldn't let it bother you that much.

@SeriPSO2 It wasn't a carry, I had gear that I had collected on my main. If anything, it felt too easy after experiencing Extreme normal Luther with my main. The run still took ~10 min.

It happens, in my experience the first four people stand around waiting for people to show for a long time, by the time they see that number they’re ready to go. It isn’t really fair but it kind of sucks for them too, there have also been old UQs I’ve been in where we waited so long people started to leave so someone would hit the button when the bare minimum was reached.

I never hit the button but I’ve been in both situations. Heck, recently I went to fight a UQ and three people other than myself were just staring at the teleporter confused because they didn’t know the fight was already in progress.

@Milk The problem is it was maybe 2 min after the Urgent went live. The announcement came, I hit accept in this block and ran to the ship. There was no real wait.

@SeriPSO2 And here is one of the reasons why there should be a limit on the level people can join the different difficulty missions. Someone at level 70 comes to a level 20 version and makes it boring for everyone, including themselves, and then they act like they did you all a favor? You can't be serious... (this is what happened to me, and it sucked)

In fact, if you indulge in this kind of behaviour, why do you do it? I'm really curious. After all, if i'm playing a game, it would be nice to actually play. As you say, i won't be able to do anything, but since i can't kick you or punish you in any way, am i supposed to just stand there? "Carried" indeed...

On JP everyone waiting 15m before every EQ inside campship, with drink already set. Rule is first in, first served.

@Yggranya said in Don't be that guy.:

@SeriPSO2 And here is one of the reasons why there should be a limit on the level people can join the different difficulty missions. Someone at level 70 comes to a level 20 version and makes it boring for everyone, including themselves, and then they act like they did you all a favor? You can't be serious... (this is what happened to me, and it sucked)

In fact, if you indulge in this kind of behaviour, why do you do it? I'm really curious. After all, if i'm playing a game, it would be nice to actually play. As you say, i won't be able to do anything, but since i can't kick you or punish you in any way, am i supposed to just stand there? "Carried" indeed...

It’s something inevitable when you queue for EQs and will continue to happen since there’s a few reason why high level players do EQs at lower difficulties which are: clearing missions (limited/Daily CO/mission pass/etc,) or carrying a friend/team member, affix farming, etc,

Once the playerbase in EN starts getting close to what JP has, where the ratio of players under 50 are a very small percentage lower difficulties will suffer as you’ll begin seeing a diminishing amount of players queue’d for the EQ at said, Hard or VH queues will be dried up with sessions not even filling to full capacity at all.

This will only make it difficult for those new players being stuck in an EQ they will fail said EQ due to being undergeared and inexperienced.

So trying to twist my point being one that explains the scenario on high level players being in a lower difficulty setting and what you have to end up doing to obtain rewards to low level players should feel grateful they’re getting carried is pretty big misinterpretation. As the said scenario will happen not every time but seldom occurs, most of what player could do is ready themselves ahead of time.

If you truly feel bitter about not experiencing the fight at lower difficulty, keep pushing towards 50+ for SH where it’s a difficulty intended to have the fight fully fleshed out for even geared players to experience and learn the fight. Hard and VH settings are intermediary difficulties intended for people to only use for leveling hence the exp differences.

Also to mention, average gear for a low level are on NT level, which means with the HP pool even Hard and VH have, these gears pretty much overpower these lower level EQ to start with. Leading to fights being pretty much a quick fight where newbies doesn’t actually learn anything or experience very much to start with.

@SeriPSO2 If there are less players and they fail because they don't have appropriate rarity gear, that isn't a problem as they can simply get better stuff.

Higher level mission doesn't change the fact that a level 70-90 player with fully upgraded weapon is going to make it trivial for everyone. Maybe level 80 missions will get better, but anything below that is the same. Well, maybe i should try one with my level 80 class.

As you pointed out, people do the lower level ones even though doing the higher level version would be better for them as they would get better rewards. Also better for their friend who actually would get to play the game, insted of just standing there as just another 1 of the 11 who don't matter. Maybe they don't want to play EQs but if they are there only for the rewards, they could just do it with the two of them without ruining it for others. Hey, i am aware that "it's MMO" but that does nothing but prove that people are mostly just a-holes.

"twist your point"? I'm not the one who said people get "carried", not like they had any choice in it anyway. After all, doing nothing is pretty bad in a game, unless it's some mobile garbage. Although, when i reread your older post, you say that simply getting rewarded should be enough? Damn, no wonder people don't even care since rewards are the only point in playing a game. Of course, just another MMO where it's all the same as it is in the other MMOs, especially the players. Pfft...

Also, your final point just proves that they are terribly designed, so i guess there isn't anything more to add as none of it is going to change. Not change for the better anyway. Well, at least i can solo some of them. shrug

I’d also like to point out that sometimes SH just isn’t possible for lvl 70-ish players. The queues are so long I’ve completely missed an UQ before. There’s less wait for normal/hard/VH and they can’t do XH yet.

@Yggranya said in Don't be that guy.:

@SeriPSO2 And here is one of the reasons why there should be a limit on the level people can join the different difficulty missions. Someone at level 70 comes to a level 20 version and makes it boring for everyone, including themselves, and then they act like they did you all a favor? You can't be serious... (this is what happened to me, and it sucked)

In fact, if you indulge in this kind of behaviour, why do you do it? I'm really curious. After all, if i'm playing a game, it would be nice to actually play. As you say, i won't be able to do anything, but since i can't kick you or punish you in any way, am i supposed to just stand there? "Carried" indeed...

I especially hate when it happens in the trick or treat UQ. Because the enemies are already easy no matter what difficulty you do it if you have all 8 people. So the overleveled people just make it boring, miss out on potentially better drops, and aren't actually helping or showing off at all. They may think they're showing off, but the enemies already die fast enough, that the speed people overleveled for a particular difficulty kill the enemies is not really all that impressive. So all it does is make it boring for people playing at the correct level range.

@Kodiakmax-101 This happens frequently on EH and I've finally gotten over my guilt and just leave if the countdown has started by the time I load into the ship for a 1-time UQ.

The way I see it, every UQ can be low-manned so the people who aren't in a rush will hopefully be cool with the slightly longer clear (and some may even enjoy the challenge like Yggranya). And then the people who wanna go fast will either find that a 12th person saves more time than the 30s it'd take to let them load in, or they'll keep it up because they can carry and it's more efficient for their play session.

@Yggranya said in Don't be that guy.:

If there are less players and they fail because they don't have appropriate rarity gear, that isn't a problem as they can simply get better stuff.

Yes, it is a problem because you're implying as if better gears are possible for everyone, I mean these are new player's I'm referring to as if it were someone who has a high level character already can easily sub in optimal gears. they can definitely get better stuff and by the time they do have it to handle that difficulty with very limited amount of people, they are already onto the next difficulty, which they will encounter the same issues. Hard rank is extremely short-lived and only take a few days to pass VH contents. Even with the pace EN currently have, it doesn't take very long to even reach SH. they won't have as much of an access to obtain strong gear that gives enough leverage to clear quickly due to stat restriction, and knowing how most value speed of a run, with these EQ could run for longer. The average player (newbie included) wouldn't find it worthwhile to do. For EN getting EXP is easily done because of the amount of sources out there for the player even if they played casually, while gear itself is determined how resourceful/lucky the player is at obtaining them via drops or player shops.

Higher level mission doesn't change the fact that a level 70-90 player with fully upgraded weapon is going to make it trivial for everyone. Maybe level 80 missions will get better, but anything below that is the same. Well, maybe i should try one with my level 80 class.

SH is when scalings are higher than that of Hard and VH because of the jump in overall stats from gears, so it matches their corresponding gear range.. So while there are gears that may be slightly over the recommended stat, due to the HP/Stat scaling SH has, each fight will last long enough for the average player to actually learn the fight. Yes, it'll be much easier but the clear speed isn't that of you see in Hard or VH when an overleveled/geared player enters.

Most Hard bosses have around 2~3m HP while VH is a small step up from that with 4~7m. SH scales higher for most fights and even with geared players, the clear time for that is only a bit faster than if people that have gears appropriate for that difficulty would clear but it is not on the same standing as that of Hard or VH. Since SH is scaled up to 75 and EP 4 EQs are scaled late 75. So even with Nem/Slave weapons or even weapons that outdoes it like Atlas, you're not going to see clears under 1 min as the bosses' stats and HP is high enough.

As you pointed out, people do the lower level ones even though doing the higher level version would be better for them as they would get better rewards. Also better for their friend who actually would get to play the game, insted of just standing there as just another 1 of the 11 who don't matter. Maybe they don't want to play EQs but if they are there only for the rewards, they could just do it with the two of them without ruining it for others. Hey, i am aware that "it's MMO" but that does nothing but prove that people are mostly just a-holes.

It's entirely subjective, as what you feel could be differ for others. Sure, having an overgeared player killing the boss under a minute might not be what you want. That doesn't justify adding a level limit to contents as I stated, it's not future-proof, otherwise JP would've had level limit but they realize the issue that comes with having limits on contents when there's more issue than not.

"twist your point"? I'm not the one who said people get "carried", not like they had any choice in it anyway. After all, doing nothing is pretty bad in a game, unless it's some mobile garbage. Although, when i reread your older post, you say that simply getting rewarded should be enough? Damn, no wonder people don't even care since rewards are the only point in playing a game. Of course, just another MMO where it's all the same as it is in the other MMOs, especially the players. Pfft...

I mean, your reply already show that you're unable to comprehend the intent because you're so focused on my mention of "being carried". I'm not justifying why high level players going into a lower difficulty. I'm explaining what happens when you see it, why they do it and what the individual could do to not waste their run and not missing out on the EXP/reward/Objective clear as being if the fight ends up clearing before they could reach the teleporter. In addition to explaining why PSOCrew didn't implement a level ceiling limit on contents for long-term reasons.

Not really sure why you're so pessimistic, when in the grand scheme of things, only an issue that often happens at lower content. While current state of EN even in SH contents, even BiS gears will only act as a leverage for you to clear a bit faster. It's just intriguing how much having a few encounter with carry runs really affects you when N/H/VH are short-lived for even the average EN player.

Also, your final point just proves that they are terribly designed, so i guess there isn't anything more to add as none of it is going to change. Not change for the better anyway. Well, at least i can solo some of them. shrug

I mean if you have a better solution to low level players queuing their contents in their level range and have it actively recruiting, you would've explain it here to give people insight why said design could improve it to be better.

Your entire argument has been summed up to it affecting your experience alone and trying to justify it because it makes things 'boring' or 'bad' for you.

@Riesz Pretty sure most just value faster run and not trying to show off. Especially for ToT or any EQ that are repeatable within the timeslot, as faster runs = more runs which is more rewards. The potential better drops you're referring to are usually at the end of the EQ for the most part. Unless it's something like older Driving Rain EQ where bosses drops loot crystals but even, drops persists for a long time so you don't exactly miss out on the better drops.