@Ashe-Kinsilla Ok, and if you are apart of the 98% that don't care, why are you posting here? Why are the only things you've ever posted on these forums been censorship related, and biased? You are obviously pro-censorship given that context, so that means the percentages you are pulling out of thin air, likely don't reflect the truth at all.

Edit: And you still haven't answered my previous question. Why do you tell people like myself to ignore posts like these, but give Apollos and Leap a pass on It? Personally I'm past telling them to ignore the posts, because frankly, they will do as they please.

@Anarchy-Marine said in A list of changes that I think PSO2 needs in order to be more inclusive and appropriate for more players.:

@Ashe-Kinsilla Ok, and if you are apart of the 98% that don't care, why are you posting here? Why are the only things you've ever posted on these forums been censorship related, and biased? You are obviously pro-censorship given that context, so that means the percentages you are pulling out of thin air, likely don't reflect the truth at all.

Edit: And you still haven't answered my previous question. Why do you tell people like myself to ignore posts like these, but give Apollos and Leap a pass on It? Personally I'm past telling them to ignore the posts, because frankly, they will do as they please.

I think I typed something that answers your question as to why I am here.

I told you what others have told Leap and Apollo to just ignore the threads they disagree with. Honestly I believe they provide good counters to the topic for the most part. There isnt anything else on the forums that I find interesting or a good read.

I came to the forums to discuss about force and maybe get some information about it. I found a guide and pretty much dead part of the forums. I enjoyed the 70+ and 30+ pages of reading and would like for it to keep going.

If you look on the forums themselves the amount of people talking about it in the two threads that are still unlocked are a handful of people. Its just the same handful of people over and over. You cant use twitter as a source because you use "twitter folk" as a negative title. So out of the... I don't even think 10k people playing now, only a handful have made their way to the forums to talk about it. Yes, there are people who don't know there is a forum for pso2 and yes a ton, TON of people are anti censor. Over the bigger stuff.

I think the only two times i've posted outside of this thread was calling Leap "based" and telling someone else that MMOs always have dips after the hype is gone. That doesn't really sound pro censorship.

If reddit wasn't so "I POST FASHION GIVE ME UPVOTES" and more discussion about things, I wouldn't be here.

I dont like the way these forums are set up. Sorry about the deleted post by me. I just quoted and that was the post. Nothing else lol.

@Ashe-Kinsilla No need to apologize for post errors. They happen. As for your statistical analysis, a lot of players don't know there is censorship in the general sense, and the few that I've seen in game that do, are vocal against it. With what this user is proposing, it would open a large can of worms, as there are plenty of players, that use the outfits as a for instance, that would be very upset if they were changed after they bought them. That's their money, and their time wasted, and that's the two things considered by many in the world at large to be the most valuable. That alone is reason enough for me to believe that your overall idea that few would actually care is inaccurate at best.

@Anarchy-Marine said in A list of changes that I think PSO2 needs in order to be more inclusive and appropriate for more players.:

@Ashe-Kinsilla No need to apologize for post errors. They happen. As for your statistical analysis, a lot of players don't know there is censorship in the general sense, and the few that I've seen in game that do, are vocal against it. With what this user is proposing, it would open a large can of worms, as there are plenty of players, that use the outfits as a for instance, that would be very upset if they were changed after they bought them. That's their money, and their time wasted, and that's the two things considered by many in the world at large to be the most valuable. That alone is reason enough for me to believe that your overall idea that few would actually care is inaccurate at best.

I apologize I should of said something along the lines of "with people on the forums" and not actual "this is how it is". However, I think our back and forth has been interesting, but I think its at the end of its course. It has been fun, I would like to do it again, maybe give more of my opinion in the other threads.

@Ashe-Kinsilla Perhaps. I'm not unreasonable. I'm simply tired of people that seek to change something simply because they don't like what it was originally. A lot of what I used to enjoy has already gone down that road and PSO2 was, and for now at least, still is something I've come to enjoy. First game in a long while that I've sunk hundreds of hours consecutively into.

Edit: As the old saying goes, what good does it do a man, to gain the world, and lose his soul. In this case, what good does it do to gain new users that will stick around for a short while, and lose the soul of the game, and by extension the dedicated players with investment into a series who would otherwise always be willing to back it.

@Anarchy-Marine Do remember that I myself posted a thread about me not liking skimpiness and sexuality in games like the one this forum is made for, yet we ended up as not-enemies, kek. I think the problem is not much what people request or want, but the tone they use to do so. The way a person expresses themselves, I believe, is of utmost importance and in many cases will dictate the responses they receive.

@ZorokiHanuke Yeah, but at least you had half decent reasoning, and made it clear that you were at least open to hearing other people out. At no point either here, or on Twitter, as far as I saw, was OP even remotely interested in the opinions of others, and kept saying that they were going to report anyone, and everyone that made comments on their Twitter feed. This includes anyone giving reasonable feedback. I believe this person is being disingenuous with their intent. I don't think they actually care, even though they made it seem that way with all of the effort in the initial post. The core of their arguments always reverted to reporting people, or calling people pedos or creeps, and the simple fact they avoided doing so here on these forums, tells me that they have had prior experience with being banned for that.

I'd also like to remind you, that this isn't the first time I suspected a user of this, and had been accurate on my assessment. I have a knack for noticing patterns. That's not to say I'm 100% accurate all of the time. That said, I still have good instincts when it comes to dealing with liars and thieves. I had to learn that skill when I was young and naive, because of past experiences that involved such things. I've also had to play role of Admin in several forum, and gaming community settings, and have had to resolve conflicts in said communities.

There's always a pattern to these things, and this post is red flag after red flag, and I'm not the only one, given that other user that posted that bait meme.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that I was never the type to research users outside these forums, until it was made clear that certain users on both sides of the argument, began making alt accounts, so that they could pretend to be a different user, and pretty much had entire conversations with themselves on these very topics. I've already made it clear I don't like liars, and since then I've been watching the forums more closely, and with a lot more skepticism. I only ever back check users that are suspect.

@Emilia-Harmony

@ZorokiHanuke said in A list of changes that I think PSO2 needs in order to be more inclusive and appropriate for more players.:

@Anarchy-Marine Do remember that I myself posted a thread about me not liking skimpiness and sexuality in games like the one this forum is made for, yet we ended up as not-enemies, kek. I think the problem is not much what people request or want, but the tone they use to do so. The way a person expresses themselves, I believe, is of utmost importance and in many cases will dictate the responses they receive.

i do not know if ZorokiHanuke is right in all cases, but i think there is a lot of validity in not only what they mention about presentation, but about trying to remain civil so we can all discuss the topics at hand.

i want to dismiss much of what you presented mostly only because i have refuted these same exact arguments for years all over the internet, and it feels unoriginal, staged, or contrived that so many continue to regurgitate an old argument that has already been validly refuted.

i do apologize that i don't always come across as being kind and aware of other's feelings, & likely did not give that impression by my stern opinion of disliking much of yours.

when you state "inclusivity" right beside the word censorship, it becomes blatantly obvious to me that you are thinking idealistically without considering the ramifications or consequences of what you are asking.

as due to height censorship, smaller stature people have been "excluded" not included.

removing things from language, or content from games, censorship in general is never an actual solution to whatever the root problem is. sure, its easier to shoo things out of sight, and dismiss their existence, so they "no longer offend you" but all this does is sweep an actual issue under the rug, and solves nothing.

that is why i responded how i did, and usually do about these subjects being brought up to censor works of FICTION, when i know that real world issues exist and that energy would be better spent making the actual place we live & breath a better place than complaining about works of fiction or ART.

i tend to view the world from lens of an artist, although i am much more fond of studying occult sciences or philosophy. (among many other things, language, systems, cultuers/governments, religions, etc etc) so its very sad to see art perpetually stifled by censorship. but history shows that freedom of expression is much like other freedoms which must occasionally be fought to retain & maintain.

anyway, perhaps you could restate why you want this list of changes, and how you think it would be helpful. i personally like when people debate both sides of an issue it helps me know how far they've thought it threw, but you do you. i just dont understand but maybe you have a better explanation so i could perhaps see where you're coming from.

@Anarchy-Marine That's fair, and it's good to expose liars if they are indeed such. In cases like this, I always say that it's good to have people with different mindsets, so what one cannot find, the other can. In this case, you saw that the poster did some things on another platform and you called it out. Fair game, since that other post was public, so no real infringement. While in my case, I don't do that, but I take the opportunity to try and spread advice about things like respect and tolerance, which other users reading this, hopefully can see and take to heart.

@KYBELA One of the things I find odd about censorship of media like this, at least in terms of symbols of oppression, is that this kind of censorship simply hides the opportunity to understand things under a rug made of intolerance and maybe even ignorance. Instead of censoring some things, how about people start to actually try to understand the stuff? I mean, let's learn what oppression really was, so we can see the final fault on it and stop doing it for good. Let's start learning about how stronger humans can get when united in peace, so we can finally see our neighbors who have maybe a different skin color, or religion, or gender identity, and tell them we also love them and accept them, so long as mutual respect is given to what is different about us.

The current state of things have instead proven me that there's this giant cloud of intolerance and firm adherence to ignorance from many sides, enough for me to sometimes think that separation may be the only option. It all makes my faith in life and sentience falter. But I smack my face and come back to my senses. Perhaps full unity can't be achieved, but if we can teach people, even if it's one by one, little by little, perhaps understanding will win the day in a hopefully not so distant future.

Yes, maybe I'm sounding creepy saying this in a video game forum, but sometimes one has to speak their mind on the spot. And well, I was here when the burst happened.

Chasing Clout.

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@Irisundone said in A list of changes that I think PSO2 needs in order to be more inclusive and appropriate for more players.:

I really only agree with two points: Cutting down on the lewd/NSFW symbol arts and having hair/accessories/outfits/etc available for everyone since there are some male outfits that looks really cool that I want but can't use for my main (I have a male character that I don't use as much, though). All of this other stuff just reminds me of Tumblr circa 2012-ish and it makes me cringe a little.

I think there are more who have replied who also might feel this way. So even though it seems like many of you may not agree with OP's other points, it does seem that there are a few ideas that may be helpful. This is why we support the expression of all opinions, as they can bring up related issues. For those of you who fear that this could become fact, just know that we do take note of quantities of players who feel a certain way as well.

Deynger out.

@Irisundone said in A list of changes that I think PSO2 needs in order to be more inclusive and appropriate for more players.:

I really only agree with two points: Cutting down on the lewd/NSFW symbol arts and having hair/accessories/outfits/etc available for everyone since there are some male outfits that looks really cool that I want but can't use for my main (I have a male character that I don't use as much, though). All of this other stuff just reminds me of Tumblr circa 2012-ish and it makes me cringe a little.

I feel the same about these two points being the only ones I can agree with.

@Weirdo said in A list of changes that I think PSO2 needs in order to be more inclusive and appropriate for more players.:

@Irisundone said in A list of changes that I think PSO2 needs in order to be more inclusive and appropriate for more players.:

I really only agree with two points: Cutting down on the lewd/NSFW symbol arts and having hair/accessories/outfits/etc available for everyone since there are some male outfits that looks really cool that I want but can't use for my main (I have a male character that I don't use as much, though). All of this other stuff just reminds me of Tumblr circa 2012-ish and it makes me cringe a little.

I feel the same about these two points being the only ones I can agree with.

The symbol arts thing will probably be impossible to fix, as many users will just make new arts, these are likely players that also spent money on the game, so banning them wouldn't be an option. The only other one, would be removal of symbol arts, and nobody that enjoys the memes, or the funny ones would want that. The best bet would be for players to mature and responsible enough to simply block anyone that offends them.

As for the outfits, that seems to be the general consensus, that more player choice in this regard is always welcome. I may not personally have my characters use outfits that weren't originally for their respective genders, but I wouldn't mind having a place for players that do.

@Anarchy-Marine I know the symbol art would be impossible to get rid of. With the outfits I just wish I could use male outfits from the SG scratch since I can't even sell them. Maybe there could be a trade-in for the opposite gender outfit if they exist at least.