Hero is a disappointment

that sounds like a you problem. 0care

@Asthralic said in Hero is a disappointment:

Hero can counter everything, even air if you bet on it. It also had 60% multipliers + 55% crit -> got changed to 80% multipliers +150% crit

Counters recover 20% of its multiplier

Just FYI these buffs are not on global.

@Asthralic Lol I know how hero works. I even provided a link showcasing a top tier hero player. What's your excuse for the guy who destroys the hardest content in the game, almost dying to random mobs? I guess he doesn't "understand" hero too?

Lol everything you just typed only proves just how poorly designed hero is. You are not countering everything. Period. You are not dodging everything because some attacks have lingering hitboxes and a lot of the time multiple enemies attack you at once that a simple side step even with additional i-frames is not going to cover.

Also, no matter what mental gymnastics you try to play, having to constantly switch weapons at every moment and have every weapon on par with another is nothing but tedious and bad design. Especially considering the fact that you legit cannot optimally execute the point of the absurd weapon switching on any tool other than a keyboard because keyboard is the only tool that can switch weapons instantaneously like i've stated for the umpteenth time.

Hero is poorly designed. Doesn't belong in a chaotic game like this and it demands way too much. Period

@SalutexMO Those are not generic "random mobs" as you say it. They're endless random mobs which have very very broken scaling past one lap. Also, endless is very different from regular content/bosses as you HAVE to not only complete stage orders that are sometimes very wonky for extra time but also do everything as quickly as possible. This leads to some wonky strats and people getting destroyed by things they normally wouldn't because they have to do X or Y as quickly as possible and that often involves gimping yourself.

Also, every weapon on Hero has PAs that will automatically switch to one or the other of the other weapons if you hold them.

@Combat-Lobster said in Hero is a disappointment:

You probably don't know this OP, cause PSCrew are bad about leaving out details in the PA description, but you don't have to I-frame through everything as some PAs have guard frames. (The Tmgs Final Storm for example has a lot of them)

That's true I know that move does have like i-frames that last throughout the entire animation but that's the only move for hero that has something like that and you have to land the counter with tmg in order to proc it so it doesn't seem very practical in most situatuons

That run isn't endless quest 1, it's endless quest 2, Rondo, in which is several times more cancerous than the first counterpart, since it's all rng upon rng. And "getting destroyed by random mobs" is incorrect because they are forced to obey orders in rondo if they want to sustain it because rondo doesn't have an order pattern unlike endless quest 1. This person probably has full raw damage units instead of balanced, judging the main weapon and the fact of having 1700 hp +245 pp. They built it for raw damage, no whatsoever survivability, no techter buffs, it's literally just their own shifta/deband. Also those mobs actually hit much harder than you think they would, even if you had top tier gear ontop of hero's lack of defense. Another thing is that hero's most damage are all counters, sword, talis for gear build/DoT, even though the DoT uses sword's stats when you swap back to it. It's very easy to mess up with hero. What else do you want hero to have aside one guaranteed iron will proc that can be refreshed? You want a class to give you 7000000000 damage by just pressing one button? lol, call it badly designated as much as you wish. At the end of it, you might as well just go back to hunter and do your best with that, since clearly a squishy class that relies on counters and dodges are not your thing. lmao

@ OP Maybe post videos of how you actually play the class during missions instead of hunting around for hours on the internet to find 1 clip to link in an attempt to call it proof that what you say is valid.

Reading through all this what I end up getting from this is that you saw videos of people playing the Hero class well and thought the class itself was overtuned. Then when actually trying it found it wasn't overtuned like you thought it was. Rather than accept that the people in the videos you watched made it look overtuned because of player skill you chose to blame the issue on the class itself because you seem to consider yourself some sort of a top tier gamer and as such exempt yourself from fault.

Integrity has been rapidly declining over the last few decades in society in general. People would rather waste excessive amounts of energy trying to rationalize an excuse or a way to blame something or someone else.

@SalutexMO

You keep reiterating the same points despite people making counter arguments and you've not responded to anyone who's told you why that video you linked isn't proof of your argument. Like, actually participate in the discussion you've started instead of just taking the easy W on people who are leaving troll responses.

@Ukyo-Sonoda said in Hero is a disappointment:

Integrity has been rapidly declining over the last few decades in society in general. People would rather waste excessive amounts of energy trying to rationalize an excuse or a way to blame something or someone else.

Well if that isn't the most relatable statement i've seen on the internet in a long time. Kudos.

@AwkwardSatori OP doesn't read as I already address the flaws in his arguments, he nitpicks whichever one he can and tries to justify it.

His entire thread/posts have been countered, it's just most people are reiterating what's been said now and also the sidecomments/personal insults being exchanged now.

It's a huge issue when people who don't fully know the class complain about it by trying to use an experience player's performance to justify something, especially if they haven't understood what's going on in the video.

@Asthralic said in Hero is a disappointment:

This person probably has full raw damage units instead of balanced, judging the main weapon and the fact of having 1700 hp +245 pp. They built it for raw damage, no whatsoever survivability.

A full atk focused affix build would have much less HP, I'm not exactly sure what or where you're assuming that. Like many others, Flaoc have optimized endgame affix builds which involves compound affixes on their weapon/units on top of either cras or austere units. You can try for a pure atk focused unit set without compounds but you will never reach that kind of HP/PP value even as Hr without using endgame units that provide balanced stats and also compound affixes because most you'll get would be at least 1.2~1.3k HP/190~210 PP without any of that.

Flaoc might have not upgraded their set, so it would still be an AMEC or something along those lines, which are all stats and includes HP/PP too. A full amec set will set the average Hr to at least around ~2.2k def which is pretty good, while with returner, it'll be an extra +30~90 def extra.

Also, it's endless, even with compound affixes you'll still take a low rate of survivability. I know a decent amount of players with updated sets using new affix builds that includes higher def/etc. and they still can die from not being careful especially when it came to certain stages because the new affix unit builds only give you an extra leverage and a minor increase to being able to take an extra hit.

@SalutexMO Off the top of my head, Brightblade Buster and Final Storm have guard frames (not sure if its iframe or guard frame on Final Storm actually).

I think the core thing here is you're not realizing that there are ways to deal with hero boost loss and such. Building higher HP through using things like Elegant Stamina + Alles Di Soul on units helps mitigate the risks of getting hit and losing Hero Boost, because it requires you to be hit for 20%. And yes, getting hit is inevitable. Losing hero boost once in a while is inevitable. Hero Refresh helps with this, and the buff that JP has that will come to NA eventually is the thing that saved it from the hell that is EP6 content for hero, which restores a quarter of your hero boost (so 20%) instead of a sixth of it.

I also think you're believing that you need to swap weapons way more than you actually need to. One of the people who I started watching a long time back who tried to imrpove a lot and get better and better at endless actually played on controller for quite some time. The trick to swapping is mostly planning, if you're not going to use the PA swaps. Because funny enough, if you swap too fast you actually break your damage

As one last note, on the note of Endless. Yes you're going to get hit and take damage. You can't iframe everything. You have the ability to get your Hero Boost back when you counter things, this will improve a lot once we have the buff -- but global has none of the majorly problematic content that hero struggles with so i assume thats why we don't have the buff -- especially because some of this content was designed with hero being strong in mind.

As for the other things in the thread...

1700 hp + 245 pp is raw damage and no investment into survivability

no lol. He's running LS/Atlas units with 180,180,220 hp, 110,110,150 all def, primarily mel based but 180 in all attack at the minimum on all units. +23 pp minimum on all units. He could have gotten more attack or pp but opted for more hp in those locations.

Above post kinda summed up the rest of what i was gonna say.

It's a cool class but it's not my thing. Looking forward to Phantom and Etoile though.

@Knight-Raime said in Hero is a disappointment:

@SalutexMO

You keep reiterating the same points despite people making counter arguments and you've not responded to anyone who's told you why that video you linked isn't proof of your argument. Like, actually participate in the discussion you've started instead of just taking the easy W on people who are leaving troll responses.

That's not true. It's just the points people are making are reasonable, they just do not refute the points I have made. It seems like what i'm trying to convey just goes over a lot of people's heads here. People claimed that the reason that the person in the video was almost dying to these mobs were because these were special renditions of ordinary mobs. Okay that's cool but my point is that hero offers no realistic wiggle room in a game like this when you get punished for failing a just frame counter side-step.

He took damage. That means he was unable to sidestep a strong mobs attack which means he received a damage reduction which means he could not use hero counter. That's the point i'm getting at. That's a completely realistic scenario because this game is completely chaotic even in regular instances like a uq with mobbing or an advanced quest or whatever. Stuff like that happening is inevitable but you get hard punished for it, which is bad design.

People are not refuting my points regarding the tedious and unrelastic nature of constant weapon swapping either. Okay, people can do it on controller hell I can do it on controller since all you have to do is utilize the PA that swaps weapons. My point is, the swapping is way too slow and practically pointless in any fast-paced action sequence. The animation is literally too long. If that wasn't too much of a factor, than people wouldn't just opt to bind keys and swap manually. That again is bad design.

Having to forfeit a main weapon in a game with the most punishing weapon enhancement system I have ever seen with extremely grueling farms is poor design. So now I have to make my TMG and Talis on par with sword (which means a crazy grind for a *14 talis and tmg with proper affixes) or else i'll be shooting myself in the foot just by playing hero because you need to constantly utilize ALL WEAPONS in order to play the class well. It's bad design.

I don't see bravers having to use both katana and bow to play the class optimally. I don't see gunners having to use anything barring tmgs to play the class well. I also don't see hunters having to player partizans or wired lances to play the class well either especially not constantly!

Hero is an exercise in tedium. It's a uber tryhard class with very little reward for anything barring absurd, unrealistic gameplay. Why can't you understand this?

@Ukyo-Sonoda said in Hero is a disappointment:

@ OP Maybe post videos of how you actually play the class during missions instead of hunting around for hours on the internet to find 1 clip to link in an attempt to call it proof that what you say is valid.

Reading through all this what I end up getting from this is that you saw videos of people playing the Hero class well and thought the class itself was overtuned. Then when actually trying it found it wasn't overtuned like you thought it was. Rather than accept that the people in the videos you watched made it look overtuned because of player skill you chose to blame the issue on the class itself because you seem to consider yourself some sort of a top tier gamer and as such exempt yourself from fault.

Integrity has been rapidly declining over the last few decades in society in general. People would rather waste excessive amounts of energy trying to rationalize an excuse or a way to blame something or someone else.

So you say I lack integrity yet you make up something that makes sense in your own head and applied that to myself and my original post? That's not how it works. I don't consider myself a top tier gamer, I literally just said my hero is not good in retaliation to somesone saying a "good" hero player beat phaleg which I responded with "that's not that impressive because I also beat phaleg as hero because phaleg is a good matchup for the hero class".

I'm pointing out why the concept of hero in a game like this is flawed. So far, no one has been able to refute that.