Hero is a disappointment

Nobody can do it? I guess we all need to git gud then

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

This class highlights just how bad this game's combat design can be. I picked up this class because I saw that it could use sword (my main weapon) but it was also very fast with it's abilities as opposed to hunter's sword having more weight but being a bit sluggish, so I wanted to try out this class to spice things up a bit. Boy was I wrong. This class is a complete CHORE to play. Not fun at all.

There's so much stuff that you need to focus on that it feels like it's a battle between myself rather than the monsters i'm fighting. To play this class "optimally" you need to keep switching between weapons and combo their photon arts to build up the hero gauge quickly. So now you can't just have a main that you prefer to use, you HAVE to learn the other two weapons and their photon arts and you have to switch CONSTANTLY. Imagine switching weapons literally every two seconds. How is that anything but tedious? On top of that, you need to i-frame EVERYTHING. If you don't, you literally lose damage.

This is the same game that has 20 enemies on your screen at once and it expects me to be able to dodge every single one of their attacks and if I can't, then I get hard punished for it? That's bogus. Not to mention, if you are using a controller you might as well not even pick up this class because you need to have the ability to switch weapons INSTANTANEOUSLY in order to play hero well, which is dumb. You literally can't play this class optimally if you use a controller because you can't switch weapons fast enough to reap that weapons specific benefits in clutch situations. It's ability to switch weapons without manually switching is a complete joke because the animation takes to long. I did beat the challenge quest against phaleg as hero though... so that's cool. The funny thing is, phaleg is honestly one of the easier things to beat as hero because you can reliably counter her straighfoward moves as opposed to the majority of enemies in this game but I digress. Hero sucks

TLDR: Hero is far too overwhelming, tedious and it's design is essentially at odds with the core gameplay design of PSO2.

All scion classes are high skill ceiling and high skill entry. That's why you're supposed to already be a master at the game and have multiple high level classes before you can even begin. Hero is absolutely AMAZING, a killer with DPS and incredible to play, feels so good when you get all those perfect dodges and combo your skills right, and you're rewarded with the strongest class in the game if you can play it right.

@SalutexMO I do just fine as Hero, it takes a while to get used to but once you've got your rotations in mind and feel out every bosses attacks to know when to dodge/etc you do an insane amount of DPS unable to be outclassed by anyone else.

@SalutexMO don't you think Hero would be a bit too powerful and break class balance if they gave them hunter survivability. No other class have Hunter's omni-directional guards/parries to be able to avoid damage on demand with no cooldown. I think it's a trade off for high mobility, access to ranged attacks, and techniques (even if it's mostly for shifta/deband/zanverse). You call it "flawed", I would call it "balanced".

SEGA have buffed Hero a few times due to power creep, but it's all mostly potency enhancing and reducing the penalty to hero boost when you get hit. The fundamental gameplay of Hero has never changed.

Flaoc did super well even during majority of mobbing in that Endless Quest run. On rare occasions he got hit and triggered Hero Will, it's usually against bosses + trash, a brawl with too much mobs like you said - not many classes can get out of these situation untouched, and mistakes happen. Hero Will is refreshable with the lv85 skill so it's not just a 1 time thing.

Most Hero players do focus on 1-2 weapons and no one really constantly weapon swaps, they swap to deal with the situation at hand. Example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdoZzxE8M0o Primordial Darkness Sodam in 1 star weapon with no affix or enhancement, no units, no damage taken. It has different weapon weaknesses depending on the elemental mode its in and this player swaps accordingly to all 3 weapon types and most of the time through the weapon swap PAs, though I did see 1 sword -> tmg done manually.

@SalutexMO

An add hominem response isn't a counter to the numerous posts that have told you otherwise.

It's very clear that you want to play a specific way and have your classes do a specific thing. Hero doesn't fit that mold. That is your problem. Not the games.

@Knight-Raime

You get on my case about ad-hominem fallacy but what about all the people dodging the points I’ve made and resorting to “git gud”?

So since I’m not suited for hero for expressing my concern for how punishing hero is for very practical scenarios, how about all of you record gameplay of yourselves playing the class in an ultimate quest or UQ without taking any damage while utilizing all three weapons.

Please let’s go

It is not a bad class, it has a high skill floor but once mastered is the most strongest class in the game in my eyes. I don't like it and can't wait for the other 3 classes to come out (Phantom, Etoile and Luster) which are more accessible and feel more fluent than Hero does.

@SalutexMO

This is your thread and not theirs. I already told someone else to stop acting like a brute with you. I myself have given you 2 seperate responses giving counter arguments to which you've not responded to. You're just deflecting at this point.

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

I want everyone here to show footage of them doing an ultimate quest run or a UQ without taking any damage while constantly utilizing all three weapons to show a pleb like me totally realistic and practical hero gameplay

Go on

Here's some practical gameplay https://youtu.be/RIPo04ddZ8o

@SalutexMO I think you have the wrong perception of what constitutes optimal gameplay. Optimal doesn't mean that in a 60 minute long quest where you're constantly fighting mobs that you'll never ever take damage. It doesn't mean that you have to constantly switch weapons when you don't need to. You can use the other two weapons when you need to, and taking the time to recognise when they are valuable isn't an unrealistic expectation. It's the same as learning when a certain PA is good for a specific thing.

In no particular order, the responses to some of your criticisms.

  1. You're talking about actual game design, and not game balancing. Most people who have responded in this thread have made it clear that Hero is an enjoyable experience for what it provides. You get a multifaceted class which dynamically swaps weapons, and gains damage by avoiding it and countering enemies. That's fun for people. Whether or not the numbers need to be tuned is irrelevant to whether or not the design of the class is fun and has the potential to be rewarding. The fact that SEGA buffed Hero on JP is a sign that it was mainly a numbers issue penalising the player, not that the core gameplay wasn't fun.

  2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfPIF8y0-zE&ab_channel=BáPhúHuỳnh This is a random Gu/Fi Rondo. I skimmed the video, and there are points at which the player gets hit, and this is on a class which has one of the biggest mobility/aerial/dodge tools comparatively. The player is also not playing from under 50% hp, because it isn't necessary. Just because it would be optimal to "not take lifesteal or sustain" and play from <50 because it gives you Deadline Slayer or something stupid. Knowing when the conditionals you have are not feasible or needed for what you're doing is part of knowing the class.

  3. Hero has safety nets, and using them doesn't reflect on the player not playing optimally for the majority of a run, especially for a long one like Endless. Hero Refresh exists, and counters build back Hero Boost. You also have the option of using your ranged skillset to avoid getting close if you're worried about using sword. Other classes don't even have this option of "becoming ranged" to avoid taking damage.

  4. Because your other two weapons can be 'utility' weapons, it's literally 0 issue if they're not geared as optimally as your main weapon., You could have an Atlas TMG/Sword and nem weapons at +30 for the other two and you would be completely fine for all of our current content. You don't even need that much, but there are some reasonable 13* sidegrades which we have access to. Having decent gear for cheap/easily obtainable isn't even an excuse here.

@Andross said in Hero is a disappointment:

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

I want everyone here to show footage of them doing an ultimate quest run or a UQ without taking any damage while constantly utilizing all three weapons to show a pleb like me totally realistic and practical hero gameplay

Go on

Here's some practical gameplay https://youtu.be/RIPo04ddZ8o

But this is against phaleg which I’ve already stated is an easy fight with hero because of how straightforward and fair her attacks are. You can dodge reliable.

But can you not get hit while using all three weapons constantly in general mobs is what I’m wondering. Especially strong ones like in urgents or ultimates. I haven’t seen anyone pulling that off so we are all playing hero wrong

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

@Andross said in Hero is a disappointment:

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

I want everyone here to show footage of them doing an ultimate quest run or a UQ without taking any damage while constantly utilizing all three weapons to show a pleb like me totally realistic and practical hero gameplay

Go on

Here's some practical gameplay https://youtu.be/RIPo04ddZ8o

But this is against phaleg which I’ve already stated is an easy fight with hero because of how straightforward and fair her attacks are. You can dodge reliable.

But can you not get hit while using all three weapons constantly in general mobs is what I’m wondering. Especially strong ones like in urgents or ultimates. I haven’t seen anyone pulling that off so we are all playing hero wrong

As I said, I don't play Hero nor have any interest in the Class, so I can't make my own video for it. That being said, I did a cursory search on YouTube and found the following videos that I hope meet your specifications; 1: https://youtu.be/PK3_NC--K-c 2: https://youtu.be/6KP969GXSdQ

They do sometimes take damage, but from what I saw its because they were either being greedy or trying to showoff. But yeah, looks like solid gameplay to me.

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

@Andross said in Hero is a disappointment:

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

I want everyone here to show footage of them doing an ultimate quest run or a UQ without taking any damage while constantly utilizing all three weapons to show a pleb like me totally realistic and practical hero gameplay

Go on

Here's some practical gameplay https://youtu.be/RIPo04ddZ8o

But this is against phaleg which I’ve already stated is an easy fight with hero because of how straightforward and fair her attacks are. You can dodge reliable.

But can you not get hit while using all three weapons constantly in general mobs is what I’m wondering. Especially strong ones like in urgents or ultimates. I haven’t seen anyone pulling that off so we are all playing hero wrong

I do just fine doing that, which means no, YOU'RE playing Hero wrong, but people who learn and master the class are doing just fine, some of us have years of experience from the JP server.

At this point, it's already a troll thread, since no matter what people say, this guy is gonna call Hero a "Bad design" because he can't do "NO DAMAGE TAKEN" for whatever ego and what not he feels like. Might as well turn off "thread watch" and move on.

Could it be the fact that he did not save all of his +EXP tickets to help him level up?. That's what I did, It really came in handy. And- perhaps, it's the fact that he may have had to start hero from level 1 with no weapons or armor? ( yeah, that would suck, totally.) You also pick-up more +EXP tickets from doing Sub-story quests, they dont give as much, but at least some +3000 and +1500 still is better than nothing.

@SalutexMO I dont say this often but it sounds to me like you are the problem, not the class. If hero was so bad it wouldnt have such high play counts on global and jp (pre Luster release)