Hero is a disappointment

The issue here is you're worrying too much about Hero Time.

As nice as Hero Time is, if you're literally constantly switching weapons, you're gimping yourself as you're not using the best thing for the situation. You should basically use Sword/TMG as necessary (generally Sword, but not always), and sometimes lead with the Talis DoTs to get your Hero Gauge up. Hero Time is good, but not so good that it's worth gimping yourself.

What you're doing is overcomplicating things -- Hero Time has a 2 minute cooldown anyway, so rushing to it as fast as possible isn't really useful anyway.

Also to comment on the whole "you can't just main a weapon" -- well, you're not supposed to, it's a multi-weapon class. You can if you want, but you'll be gimping yourself in some way. This is the case for every class.

Is this gonna happen everytime they release a new class and it's not as OP as they expected? I remember there was a thread calling SEGA not to release the scion classes on global, time hold off the rest of the classes and delete hero.

Sorry Matoi, no hero for you alt text

/s

Is Hero stronger than your Main/subclass? Or is it just another another build put together by Sage. Couldn’t you just copy the same type of build using a Main and sub using the Hero Build tree?

@Matt said in Hero is a disappointment:

The issue here is you're worrying too much about Hero Time.

As nice as Hero Time is, if you're literally constantly switching weapons, you're gimping yourself as you're not using the best thing for the situation. You should basically use Sword/TMG as necessary (generally Sword, but not always), and sometimes lead with the Talis DoTs to get your Hero Gauge up. Hero Time is good, but not so good that it's worth gimping yourself.

What you're doing is overcomplicating things -- Hero Time has a 2 minute cooldown anyway, so rushing to it as fast as possible isn't really useful anyway.

Also to comment on the whole "you can't just main a weapon" -- well, you're not supposed to, it's a multi-weapon class. You can if you want, but you'll be gimping yourself in some way. This is the case for every class.

Not really. You can 100% play hunter optimally by just using sword and trying your hardest to master blaze parry. Hero is bad design because there's no way you won't take damage if 10 enemies are attacking you at the same time and your only defense is a pathetic side step. So you get punished by losing your damage boost because the class does not match the core gameplay design of pso2.

You also can't switch instantaneously with a controller unless you have access to a pc to bind keys but even that doesn't work with xbox controller. So you have to jump through a bunch of hoops just to get the class going and try to rectify bad game design.

Also, a class that demands you use multiple weapons is completely ridiculous since now all of the weapons you don't want to use have to be on par with your main that you likely invested tons of time into because you have to utilize those other fodder weapons. Imagine finally farming a 15* weapon and then realizing you have to do such a farm twice because the class demands you use two other weapons you don't give a crap about or else you'll be gimping yourself. So fun. The class wants to be the tryhard flashy class of the game but it's a complete joke and was executed poorly unfortunately.

@TEN-SQUARE-3 said in Hero is a disappointment:

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

@TEN-SQUARE-3 That person probably isn't that good then. The pa weapon swap is unreliable because it takes to long to actually swap.

I just showed you a video of a top tier hero player who physically cannot dodge mobs because the gameplay is too chaotic to see every single attack made by every single enemy at every single moment. It's bad design. The class was made for fighting straightforward bosses not for the majority of the content.

Here a link of a hero player doing exactly what you said can’t be done

https://youtu.be/6KP969GXSdQ

And as for that person not being that good they’ve unlocked both ‘a worthy opponent for fiends’ and ‘mad lethal combat fury’ titles

Is that the phaleg title? If so, that's not that impressive as hero. Even I beat her and my hero is horrible. Phaleg is one of the easiest things to beat as hero because her fight isn't chaotic and very straighfoward.

Where as 99% of the game is a complete chaotic mess where side stepping perfectly at every point in time and switching weapons is completely unrealistic that not even the best hero players can do

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

Not really. You can 100% play hunter optimally by just using sword and trying your hardest to master blaze parry.

No you can't.

Using only Sword on Hunter is gimping yourself, as Partizan is the strongest weapon overall, whereas Sword does much more in situations you can Blaze Parry (any sort of hyper aggressive boss is better with Sword, whereas if you're not being hit? Partizan is much stronger).

You're somewhat moving the goalposts here -- in your example, you are not playing optimally, but you are playing well by using only Sword. You can also do this on Hero. Using only Sword on Hero is absolutely fine, because it has tools for every situation. You might not build Hero Time quite as quickly, but if your concern was to play optimally, you would be using all 3 weapons anyway regardless of if it build your Hero Time gauge faster or not.

In regards to the whole "don't get hit" thing, everyone agrees with this except sweaty tryhards; SEGA have actually adjusted this in the latest balance patch for Hero, by increasing Heroic Boost to 80%, loss is only 20% on losing a big chunk of HP and a successful counter is 20%, making the class a lot more manageable. Unfortunately, we don't have that balance patch here for some reason, although we have the Gunblade buffs from the same patch.

Sounds like you need to take a step back and play an easier class like summoner. Hero is just fine

You probably don't know this OP, cause PSCrew are bad about leaving out details in the PA description, but you don't have to I-frame through everything as some PAs have guard frames. (The Tmgs Final Storm for example has a lot of them)

Curious about how much time you've put into hero. Considering you had that video prepped and presumably watched through some/all of it, I'm guessing you at least wanted to get better.

  1. Literally like all my MPAs are more than 50% heroes. If it's as you say, and playing it optimally is extremely difficult, but people still enjoy the gameplay style with all the 'clunkiness' that you describe, then I'd say that the designers at least mostly succeeded in achieving their goal. It really does just sound like a you problem. Not everyone enjoys Fo because they think it was boring, not everyone enjoys Fighter because "one hit and you die." Is that a design problem, or just making different class fantasies for different players? Even good Fi players get hit, get Iron Willed (assuming they're not triggering it intentionally) and therefore "are not playing optimally" but that doesn't make it poorly designed from a conceptual standpoint. If the numbers need tuning, that's a different story.

  2. It's been mentioned, but you've predicated your argument that you play a class 'optimally' after having put work into it. Learning how to Blaze Parry every useful situation is part of that, how is that any different from learning boss attacks and figuring out the timing of sidestepping them? How is that different from learning how you should mob? Not saying that you'll never get hit, but there are better ways to go about things if you're taking too much callous damage.

@SalutexMO

"To play this class "optimally" you need to keep switching between weapons and combo their photon arts to build up the hero gauge quickly."

Actually no that's incorrect. TMG's are considered to be underperforming and most optimal heros only use TMG's for it's hero counter since it's incredibly strong. Talis at best is used for long range peppering when you can't be near a boss. Or some quick gathering of gear. But a vast majority of time hero's are using just their sword because the sword has the most going for it. If you have a problem having to use more than one weapon on a class ever than fine more power to you. But most classes in this game want you to be using at least two weapons.

"you HAVE to learn the other two weapons and their photon arts and you have to switch CONSTANTLY. Imagine switching weapons literally every two seconds."

That would be rather inefficient dps wise. TMG's are swapped to for PP regeneration if peppering with your weapon action on sword isn't a viable option. Then it's swapped out for sword again. Talis doesn't see much action in boss fights since you rarely have an opportunity to drop it's DoT attacks in a damage phase and still manage to do dps with your sword in a good amount.

"On top of that, you need to i-frame EVERYTHING. If you don't, you literally lose damage. This is the same game that has 20 enemies on your screen at once and it expects me to be able to dodge every single one of their attacks and if I can't, then I get hard punished for it? That's bogus."

Not really. Hero counters are where burst damage exists. But hero is a sustained damage class and not a burst one. If you really wanted to you can just chain your dodge fire PA to avoid attacks while doing damage. And take advantage of the easy access guard frames off of the initial spin on it's AoE PA and after you let go of any level of charge on your weapon action. Hero counters definitely help your damage. But it's far more important to just not take hard hits in damage. Which is more than doable since defensive stats and HP values actually matter.

"if you are using a controller you might as well not even pick up this class because you need to have the ability to switch weapons INSTANTANEOUSLY in order to play hero well, which is dumb. You literally can't play this class optimally if you use a controller because you can't switch weapons fast enough to reap that weapons specific benefits in clutch situations. It's ability to switch weapons without manually switching is a complete joke because the animation takes to long."

I play controller and have carried extreme difficulty run backs for things like esca and the current new wyrm UQ. So that's a blatently false statement. the animation for switching weapons is cancelable. So you can absolutely swap weapons on the fly.

"TLDR: Hero is far too overwhelming, tedious and it's design is essentially at odds with the core gameplay design of PSO2."

Me thinks you got used to tanking and blocking early on as hunter and just assumed that's the baseline of combat for PSO2. The fact that you thought sword play was going to be the same as hunter despite the game itself telling you heros use weapons differently is on you and you alone.

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

@RainGnyu Me liking it or not is kind of irrelevant. The point of the post is to show how poorly designed the class is

I really wish people would stop saying something is badly designed just because it's not their cup of tea.

I can only speak for myself but I enjoy hero for what it is, a hybrid class. I love being able to use my preferred range style class with TMG and being able to wipe out a melee weapon when enemies get in closer or I just feel like charging in. I love being able to use techniques while doing all this.

Ironically the way talis works with hero makes me feel like I’m a ninja, ninjutsu including because of techniques. Throwing out items like daggers is how I actually thought Talis weapons were gonna be like for force.

I’m not interested in being the best or using the class the most efficiently. There are no damage meters to chase here. Long as I’m not dying pointless deaths and doing respectable damage I’m happy.

I can’t speak for everyone but I’ve rarely used hero time for mob enemies. Feels like a waste. For me the only time it’s worth using is when I reach the boss at the end or have one drop in mid mission. Hero time for me giving bosses the middle finger as build up for the finisher and say “bye bye”

Pro tip: It's not bad design just because you don't like it. It's just a design not fit for you.

Tbh people are fine only playing a single weapon. Just play how you want. Who cares.

This is some serious git gud issue.

Some things people in EN fail to realize before complaining about a class(s) is that Hero is a counter class, meaning it utilizing counter plays a big factor in their dps. Hence why Hero has something like Hero boost which rewards those who can are able to play the class efficiently. Also, it's okay to critique a class but should be done when you have a decent understanding of the class.

Most of the issues JP players have with HR comes from the animation lock the class have especially from certain attacks.

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

...Not really. Having a class that punishes you by slicing you damage pracitcally in half for getting for not i-framing any attack that deals small amounts of damage in a game hat throws hordes of enemies at you at every moment is pretty bad design. Also, punishing you for using a weapon you enjoy the most

Not to mention, you literally don't have the option to play the class optimally on a controller because you need to constantly and instantaneously switch your weapons, which isn't possible with switching via pad.

Either it's bad wording or such, losing -30% of the 60% is a noticeable difference but it's only about 5~10% average of potential dps loss on top of the fact that you need to take dmg threshold that is 20% or more of your HP for it to get a penalty cut. But it is always good to dodge despite an attacking not giving penalty so you can utilize counter which in turn recovers +20% multipliers lost when you took penalty.

I also know some JP who are HR mains that uses controllers and play very well. You're just not adapted and also need to learn the class more thoroughly.

@SalutexMO said in Hero is a disappointment:

Wrong. This person beat the final bosses without taking damage, defeated execuor without taking damage and beat omega masquerade 999 without trouble

An issue I have with some players when they link an expert player's video or some sort of video here to try and argue their point is that they have no understanding of the class to be considered experienced nor have any idea how the quests is run. Using an endless quest video as a means to validate your argument is bad because it does not reflect the regular content nor is it a good way to gauge a class and its kit.

and even this hero player almost dies to random mobs because it's impossible to i-frame attacks being thrown at you by twenty enemies simultaneously. It's bad design for like, 99% of the content this game has to offer. No mobbing capabilities and insane tedious weapon swapping.

I don't think I need to explain anything about endless because it's irrelevant but just so you know that those are endless mobs and not your average content mob so you're expected to take heavy damage especially at higher laps. If you knew any better, any class wouldn't be able to i-frame an entire sequence if they get bombarded by monsters unless they have a build to sustain a iframe for a long period.

Just because a skilled player died from that certain instance doesn't validate a class is bad. You have to take into consideration the circumstance of what they're in, which it doesn't seem you don't understand that.

You will only see this amount in endless and uncommon elsewhere other than contents intended for large groups of players like BQ, but even BQ scales spawn to # of players. So it's a big exaggeration saying that 99% of content will bombard players with large quantities of monsters because there are spawn rules to start with.

HR have pretty decent mobbing capabilities otherwise people in JP wouldn't be using it for running dailies on alts as it's not difficult to set up a hr farming alt.

TLDR; Learn the class first before critiquing instead of just basing it off a few things you've seen and also know sources you're using to argue.

I dont think that HERO is bad to begin with. Should you not be switching weapons on other classes anyway? Of course, you are not going to be able to dodge every single attack coming at you, but you can minimize it. If you expect to be surrounded, and not being able to at least dodge and make opportunities to attack is somewhat more of a lackluster player. As far as Phaleg goes, Honestly, I get the vibe that even though you defeat her at some point, she is still Holding waayyy back of all the potential that she has. If she would really let loose, I don't think that anyone would stand a chance.