Fellwyrm is terribly designed

@coldreactive said in Fellwyrm is terribly designed:

I was just leveling Gunner (Since I hate TMGs.) And was using Rifle instead.

Hello, Gunner main here. Stop doing that. Change your sub to something that isn't the worst thing possible. Don't use Gunner as a sub. Preferably also don't level your subclasses in urgent quests, at least not XH ones. Maybe try Buster Quests or hoard keys instead?

@AYAYA8192 said in Fellwyrm is terribly designed:

@coldreactive said in Fellwyrm is terribly designed:

I was just leveling Gunner (Since I hate TMGs.) And was using Rifle instead.

Hello, Gunner main here. Stop doing that. Change your sub to something that isn't the worst thing possible. Don't use Gunner as a sub. Preferably also don't level your subclasses in urgent quests, at least not XH ones. Maybe try Buster Quests or hoard keys instead?

Gunner will never be a subclass of mine. I don't like it. I just want the stat bonus from getting it to 75. I've been doing buster quests between UQs. I'm never touching it again after 75. Ever.

@coldreactive I've watched your gameplay and already in the first few minutes i noticed a lot of things wrongs. You did not load up your blight rounds for the boss and golems for the MPA to gain addition damage. I've seen you use One point as a mobbing tool which isn't techincally bad per say, but you might need to use a launcher with Divine launcher T0 crafted for mobbing. On activating a PA or doing normal attack you miss out on extra damage from not hitting Perfect attacks, might wanna slow down and not hold down a button unless its a chargeable PA. Easily can be learned after practicing say in Damage tally Rockbear quest or after playing some more. Phantom players won't really have a problem with this since they'll have access to 3 different weapons and rod using Techs with generous invuls and counters...Quest is fine though, you just need practice

@coldreactive I saw your vid. I'm not the best at rifles, and I'm guilty of having only one blight round in what I used as build (also had gunner sub... sue me, rifle pros), but I can at least advice a few things to help with your movement, survival, and with some dps. First, I believe Steady Shot is more of a hold out PA than a main dps thing. Can be used while moving, which is nice, but I wouldn't make it my most used PA. My own main dps PA is Diffusion Round, since I have some buffs to point blank and close range attacks. It's fast, can be used while moving, and hits in between 80 to 120 K on my current build. Yes, it's essentially a shot gun blast so it's only usable at basically melee range. But it's as satisfying as it sounds. I mean, SHOTGUNS!

A very mobile and super useful PA is impact slider. It hits moderately hard, helps you move a fair distance, and the slide itself is a huge i-frame. Just dodge out of the final kick animation to get out of a sitting duck position faster. Also, to avoid much of the ground stuff, and this is a general tip that may not work always, do a max double jump for some attacks. This serves when you are out of PP and need to use normal attacks to replenish. Lastly, crafted Slideburst, while not too damaging, has you zipping around the battlefield at great speeds while shooting stuff, just like the Casts on the videos. It's an amazing mobility hold out attack that can get you out of danger while doing at least the equivalent of DoT damage. Go into over-shoulder view to maximize it's damage.

On the survival part, you could equip a level 20 HP restore R ring, and also put both sol and star atomizers on your sub palette. If you have atomizer lovers, those two also give invincibility when used. If you do have hunter sub, auto-mate is very useful as well. I won't recommend guard stance because that drops your dps way too much since you won't be getting many buffs from that setup. Anyway, I suppose most ranger pros won't approve of what I have or some of my tactics, but they have helped me survive most things so far, so I can't complain about my self learned ranger crash course.

oh man that video that was bad, most of the death were just not paying attention to the dragon and just taking frontal damage without even trying to evade the attacks, also not using blight rounds that helps a lot and you can just load in 1 rifle and change to other to not spend all bullets.

your problem is not the fight is your skills, learn how to use the classes and sub classes and their skills and pay attention to the boss attacks to know when you need to evade.

@NotWhoUThink said in Fellwyrm is terribly designed:

I don't know who designed him but whoever did certainly doesn't know how to actually design a boss. He is near constantly mobile making many attacks extremely hard to hit, his high health combined with also near constant damage reduction, many hard hitting attacks while most them cover a wide area and even some attacks that hit you from across the map, the ability to juggle players to death with no counterplay, broken hit boxes (attacks that shouldn't connect do anyways with no chance of counterplay), and to top it all off terrible rewards. I just have to ask why? Why was he designed in such a way to be anti-fun?

Granted i've only done 3 fights against him and the run back so far but I will have to mostly disagree with your issues.

His mobility seems to be tied to whoever has his aggro at the time. I've had games where the person he was after was close to him. So he didn't flip around a lot. Or just like the last game he aggroed on my TMG wielding self and constantly tried to AoE me and come at me. He can be extremely mobile yes, but he's not always like that. And for the record i've gone into the run back with classes of all types. While being a hero certainly helps they're not the only class that's capable of fighting him.

I don't find his health/DR to be an issue. Not in the runback and certainly not in the MPA. Perhaps you/your parties gear isn't up to snuff or are running some weird builds for their classes. Or maybe the people are not doing the mechanics right. But the fights never take long. I will have to disagree about hitboxes being horrible. There are attacks that will hit twice. If you've dodged too early it's possible to dodge the first but get hit by the second.

I also do not get how the rewards are terrible. They drop relevant gear to make relevant weapons. It might not rain loot like buster advance does but I wouldn't say that makes the rewards bad. You'll have to elaborate. I have my qualms with the fight itself but overall I think it's alright. Probably going to replace esca as my favorite.

I figure this is as good a place as any to ask: I heard someone say that apparently on fellwyrm there's some weird interaction you can do with braver's volcanic carnation during the cannon phase while it's flying. Is this actually a thing / does anyone know what that thing is? I assume it's something like being able to hit the giant rock with a 100k or something, but I'm not gonna bother if I don't even know what the supposed trick's supposed to be.

@coldreactive

From watching your video, you need to work on your positioning and your reaction times are a little slow. There’s several instances where you’re standing directly in the path of the fire and getting blasted, try to hit from the side. There’s nothing wrong with slower reaction, I have the same problem, but you need a better safety cushion. You don’t heal fast enough, you don’t dodge fast enough. Knowing absolutely nothing about your class, I can’t offer any specifics but there’s a ring for consuming potions faster and there’s those useful Hunter subclass skills like Iron Will which can really save your bacon.

@Akonyl i notice in one of my runs 3 people used that skill during that phase not sure if it did something but we brought the dragon down way quicker then the other runs i was in. I also seen others swap to launchers in a different run and drop it almost as fast but I'm honestly not sure what pa they used.

@Knight-Raime said in Fellwyrm is terribly designed:

Granted i've only done 3 fights against him and the run back so far but I will have to mostly disagree with your issues.

It's fine to disagree but I'm going to try to point out why I think you're wrong.

His mobility seems to be tied to whoever has his aggro at the time. I've had games where the person he was after was close to him. So he didn't flip around a lot. Or just like the last game he aggroed on my TMG wielding self and constantly tried to AoE me and come at me. He can be extremely mobile yes, but he's not always like that.

Fellwyrm being able to be so mobile makes many attacks hard to hit combined with a knockback and a terrible camera/lock-on system accentuates the fact that he is actually very hard to actually hit for a decent amount of damage most of the time.

And for the record i've gone into the run back with classes of all types. While being a hero certainly helps they're not the only class that's capable of fighting him.

I'm not saying other classes aren't capable of fighting him but that some classes really suffer compared to other making it more of slog and less about actually having fun.

I don't find his health/DR to be an issue. Not in the runback and certainly not in the MPA. Perhaps you/your parties gear isn't up to snuff or are running some weird builds for their classes. Or maybe the people are not doing the mechanics right. But the fights never take long.

I'm not going to completely disagree with you here but combined with his mobility it really can get quite annoying.

I will have to disagree about hitboxes being horrible. There are attacks that will hit twice. If you've dodged too early it's possible to dodge the first but get hit by the second.

There are plenty of attacks that are not accurate to the visual representation and have lingering hitboxes (namely the fireball attacks).

I also do not get how the rewards are terrible. They drop relevant gear to make relevant weapons. It might not rain loot like buster advance does but I wouldn't say that makes the rewards bad. You'll have to elaborate. I have my qualms with the fight itself but overall I think it's alright. Probably going to replace esca as my favorite.

That's exactly why the rewards are terrible is because Buster Advance exists, and unlike like Fellwyrm it's not tied to schedule and can be done at anytime in shorter amount of time.

Well, I guess if you don't like it, you don't have to do it then... if buster quest drops got boosted so high that it makes all other content irrelevant.

I personally enjoyed the dragon fight (minus the cannon part), and the black dragon fight when it had 3 deaths -> fail - can be frustrating when paired up with bads but it's fun once you get the hang of it and that extra little cutscene at the end. Always used the HP up drink even though it's just insurance most of the time and didn't need it.

@NotWhoUThink said in Fellwyrm is terribly designed:

Fellwyrm being able to be so mobile makes many attacks hard to hit combined with a knockback and a terrible camera/lock-on system accentuates the fact that he is actually very hard to actually hit for a decent amount of damage most of the time.

I can agree that when he's mobile he's hard to hit for some classes. I don't find that to be a problem strictly because he's not constantly mobile. Which is why I made the comment about aggro. I won't disagree about the lock on/auto targeting system being poor. But that's really more of a jab at the game itself than an issue specifically with the fight. If high mobility alone were the problem here than Luther teleporting to stab the ground would be something else to call out. But it isn't. So clearly it's not just mobility that makes the experience feel "bad." But rather they way it's done.

I'm not saying other classes aren't capable of fighting him but that some classes really suffer compared to other making it more of slog and less about actually having fun.

I mean yea, some classes lack the defensive capabilities/mobility others do. But I don't see how this is particularly a problem with his design. If any class is more than capable of contributing to the fight then I don't see the problem. You obviously take issue with some classes performing worse than others. I don't think that is an issue because I choose to look at it as some classes excel at things that others do not.

I'm not going to completely disagree with you here but combined with his mobility it really can get quite annoying.

It's not something i've experiences so I guess I cannot say much. All I know is i've yet to see anyone actually struggle with this. I feel like if his HP/defenses were a problem it would be apparent even if everyone is playing perfectly. But seeing as how that's not the case it feels more like you're trying to say "I don't enjoy this fight and I want it to be done asap so I can stop playing it." Which fine more power to you, but I wouldn't put that blame on the fight itself.

There are plenty of attacks that are not accurate to the visual representation and have lingering hitboxes (namely the fireball attacks).

The only example I can think of is his big swoop attack when he's trying to ram people where you still touch a hurt box even if you're under his wings as he flies over you. That's...kinda par for the course when it comes to enemy hitbox design. Devs sort of expect players to understand what attacks are meant to hit where based on the behavior of the enemy. In this case he's trying to sweep the field. If all you had to do was not be under his body during that attack it wouldn't be a very effective one. As far as lingering hitboxes go that will require more playtime on my part. But at the current moment I suspect it's just improper dodge timing or a connection issue (i.e on your screen you cleared it but to the client you didn't.)

That's exactly why the rewards are terrible is because Buster Advance exists, and unlike like Fellwyrm it's not tied to schedule and can be done at anytime in shorter amount of time.

Well i'd say that's a personal problem then. Not everyone plays the game to be efficient with their time in it. And there's more than enough evidence in game to show that PSO2 is about giving the player options for obtaining loot. Like how we can get Val weapons from the dragon or from the collection sheets. (as an easy example.) Not everyone enjoys buster quests either. My friend whom I regularly play with would rather take on the crimson dragon despite it being frustrating at times than farm busters because he dislikes it's format. I play both because I enjoy both equally. Just depends on my mood at the time.

I actually enjoy PSO2 the most out of any looter experience i've had simply because it's not "go here, farm this one enemy/activity, pray to rng." It's nice that I have options. It's nice that the devs don't really need to constantly balance drop rates simply because they give people more options. It's nice to not feel like I have to rush any content because all MPA content is doable with the catch up mechanics they use to give sub optimal but workable gear into players hands. That way I can take my time when and if I want to do harder things like solo high end extremes or things like phaleg and solo PD. The chase is there if I want it. But it's obtainable in multiple ways. And it's because of this that PSO2 has taken up my entire time for gaming the past month or 2. I rarely play anything else these days.

I'm not a big fan of ranger either, I prefer bouncer and Etoile more so. I wasn't playing them because I wanted to level and whatnot. Yes, I could do buster quests, and wait until the UQ is over for people to join up. Since usually, people don't join as often while a UQ is running.

I'm not taking anymore criticism for this video, because it's just not my class. I don't mind ranger, but I'm not good at aiming, much less so pointing my character in vaguely the right direction for auto targets either. I would use weak bullet more, but I'm too scared to use it due to the boss being so mobile and me having bad reaction times is just how I am. I'm not responding to anymore for this. You just have to accept I'm terrible, and if you don't, then that's your problem. I'll just keep doing buster quests and never touch UQs again. Ever. I'll come back when Buster Quests are dead and complain that no one is doing them. But by that time Etoile or NGS will be out.

Now that Gunner/Ranger are 75, I'm working on Braver. Then I'll be working on fighter then hunter. But again, Buster Quests only from now on.

@coldreactive I don't think that it's anyones problem but your own really because people here are telling you what to do and giving advice and you say that its "Poorly design" or MPA is doing bad when you're the cause of it. Eventually you're gonna learn how to actually play efficently and not actually be dead weight because eventually Expert titles are coming to the game and no one is gonna what to play with you. Don't expect the game to play for you or to expect the class to do all of the work when you need to practice. If you were scared to Weak bullet, you could have equipped a ring for Ranger that automatically applies to what you lock on on the dragon regardless if it moves or not and still be helpful to the entire MPA. It's not that to think about the considered options at hands. You've made your bed, now you sleep in it.

@Rukiyo I haven't once said this fight was poorly designed. I've only suggested they add a few extra sword spawns.

I've agreed with you and have said I'm terrible at this, and practice isn't going to help despite me knowing all of the mechanics and running it multiple times (on multiple classes.) I can get better, as evident to my lack of deaths in comparison to when I first started, but it's not getting much better. In addition, I've only complained about others when I've heard them say I lack Moon Atomizers, since I used them all. (From maximum amounts, mind you.)

Please don't twist my being here into something else.