Is Hero... bad?

Heh. I knew this would happen.

Hero is strong, you're just bad.

The ammount of damage it pulls out from constant counters and how fast hero focus fills is insane.

If you're decent enough you'll be able to use Hero Time Finish TWICE on PD in 3 minutes. Easy Phase skips.

@Kattous With sword, use your weapon action to help regen PP, each hit gives you 1 PP, a charge hit gives 10, but don't charge it up. Spam the single multi-hit, or get the skill that shortens the charge time when you combo a weapon action, it makes it instantly charged. So do 3 normal then 1 weapon action, or use your weapon action after every Photon Art, or whenever you remember. Basically, the weapon action regens PP better than normal attacks.

TMG, do perfect reloads, but don't hold it down unless you have time to. Tapping perfect reloads gives around +30pp. If you do a Photon Art, then a perfect reload, you will never run out of PP. Any attack after a perfect reload is a perfect attack. You can also dodge step into a perfect reload.

For Talis.....lol who uses Talis.

Jokes aside, it feels very underwhelming when compared to TMG and Sword. Even using it for the DoTs doesn't seem all that worth it. The damage of them is a lot less than a Sword/TMG photon art....so, might as well just use another one of those again.

@Crimduval said in Is Hero... bad?:

For Talis.....lol who uses Talis. Jokes aside, it feels very underwhelming when compared to TMG and Sword. Even using it for the DoTs doesn't seem all that worth it. The damage of them is a lot less than a Sword/TMG photon art....so, might as well just use another one of those again.

He lacks critical information.

@Crimduval Talis is perfectly fine... there's plenty of talis main heroes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEoXmycENLQ

Those heroes are not really "Talis Main" usually, because Talis Main is basically shooting yourself in the foot, however Talis is the best bossing weapon on Hr because the DoTs, Edgeracer Gambit and Talis Counter are the strongest DPS tools on Hero in terms of motion/damage you do. (The DoTs have low "practical DPS", but in how much damage you do per PA, they are the highest)

Trying to use Talis in mobbing situations though is generally a pretty bad idea, as the only mobbing tool on Talis has is Jet Wheel which can't be spammed, thus it's bad DPS for single PA spam.

From a very noob Hero player to the rest of the world, I can say that Talis isn't a bad mobbing weapon. The thing is that you need to pretty much have everything up all the time. The spinning pizza PA could use a BIT more suction to draw more enemies from further away, but other than that, Talis is a pure game of DoTs. Can you do more damage or more stuff with other weapons and classes? Yeah, while you are dancing with your pizza, that Force over there just melted everything with a gizonde or two. But Talis Hero is 20 times more fun.

You guys got to simply your explanation of your Personal logic knowledge. Some of this I don’t understand. You may understand it but I personally don’t! Help me understand what I am reading! Please!

@RainGnyu well to sum up the thread they're telling op to "Git Gud" or play another class they're comfortable with.

@Matt

That's not true.

While talis does technically have the highest paper DPS "normal" PA, it's offset by it's significantly lower attack stat. So even though Swords highest "normal" DPS option is 100 DPS less than Talis (1898 vs 1729), it's circumvented by just how much more attack stat it has over Talis which makes it do more damage. Then there is the tech resistance that hurts Talis as well.

And when you actually use the "swap" parts of PA's, sword and tmg's paper DPS becomes better than Talis... Tmg even has jump cancel-able PA's and that makes them even more absurd.

Also Talis has access to techs for mobbing. Il Zan, Gi Grants-0, Rabarta, Gizonde (to some extent) to name a few.

@Falz said in Is Hero... bad?:

stop relying on hu sub safety net and play the game

That isn't really relevant to the topic (since Hero has no sub), nor a reasonable solution for everyone that uses Hu as a sub. Not everyone plays at the same skill level with training, practice or otherwise. Hunter offers the benefits of damage and survivability. You can't dps if you're dead and not everyone can play a glass cannon and survive.

@X-A-O said in Is Hero... bad?:

@Falz said in Is Hero... bad?:

stop relying on hu sub safety net and play the game

That isn't really relevant to the topic (since Hero has no sub), nor a reasonable solution for everyone that uses Hu as a sub. Not everyone plays at the same skill level with training, practice or otherwise. Hunter offers the benefits of damage and survivability. You can't dps if you're dead and not everyone can play a glass cannon and survive.

You completely missed his point when it was about how common the transition to Hu-main/sub to X class that tends to make people like the OP give arguments based without thoroughly learning how the class plays or what their kit is focused on. And there's more than enough thread across all forum platforms/sns that shows this mentality. X class is bad because look at what Hu-sub have! Since they can't facetank anymore and also is playing a class based on skill with a pretty high ceiling at that. The safety net Hu main/sub create totally skewed misconception that Hu-sub and a bad one due to how it bred a certain kind of mindset across all content.

The mentality is the issue we're seeing here, and one that will persist if players don't actually put time to learning and just try to be lazy, not only is this detrimental to the players but also those around them. You see EQ gone for longer than it should because people who are Hu-main/sub don't make an effort to dodge nor do a mechanic because "LOL don't everyone have Automate and Iron Will I facetank everything".

Hu-sub is a very beginner friendly sub-class that offers decent multipliers on top of damage mitigation and survival utilities. BUT these damage mitigation/suvival utilities should not be something you should heavily lean on, which is what A MAJORITY OF PLAYERS DO, hence the facetanking. You should only rely on it when you need it like if you fail to dodge, not because it's there so I should always use it. Hu-sub is great to use when you're new to contents to learn mechanics/boss fights but an effort should still be made to learn how to handle attacks/mechanics and not as a leverage to clear it.

Evidently shown when a class with a high skill ceiling comes out and these players jump the bandwagon, they realize how big of a difference without training wheels are...Or even a content, like BQ where the individual has relied on the utilities too much that they suffer through that content because while their gear may exceed that of the content, the player skill/knowledge does not because it was never developed, so everyone suffers.

I'm not saying you have to be good or play at what pros are at, and to not use hu main/sub but at least at know the basics such as dodging, pa/tech accordingly to the situations...etc, and not facetanking every single thing because automate or ironwill exists.

Also, all hail necromancy!

I've found hero got better to play when I learned to dodge(T4S), and when I got closer to 200pp.

I've been able to solo things that I was not able to as a Hunter/Fighter, so I find the Hero class stronger. Also understanding the weapon switch photon art attacks to vary my attacks to boost my Hero Boost faster makes the class much stronger. Just sticking with one weapon is not how you play the Hero class effectively. You have to switch weapons often to get that Hero boost meter up fast. Once I pop Hero Boost I deal twice as much damage and if I use the final attack I deal between 700k-over 1 million damage.

Now you can argue that a class where you have to switch weapons is not a good design, and I say wait for the Phantom class if you don't like how the Hero class works, or go back to your previous class. I'm doing just fine as a Hero.