Is Hero... bad?

No Automate, a worse (Yes, WORSE) Iron Will, and a loss of 30% Damage every time you get hit (Capped at 60%)

Yes, in theory, Hero could put out better DPS than any other class if you could keep the full 60% damage, but since that 60% isn't actually a buff and is instead treated as the baseline for Hero, losing it means either wasting half your focus bar to do acceptable damage again or doing worse DPS than any other class.

This leads to Hero requiring you to switch to TMGs to stay at range for most situations since taking a hit from even a single mob hurts the class so much that using the actual AOE weapon, Sword, is too great of a risk in most situations.

For context, Katana Braver does equivalent DPS to Hero's Sword+Talis DoTs, but doesn't lose DPS from getting hit and has a more damaging counter.

Hunter, yes, does less damage, but as a trade it will be standing while other classes are running away to use a mate/resta (Including Hero)

At best, Hero is a situational class. It makes running the PD Urgent and even the Phaleg fight easier thanks to being able to dodge through pretty much every attack, but it sucks in things like Ultimate Quests because there's so much going on you will get hit.

Even Fighter, also known as the "Get hit and die" class, has more defence than Hero due to the sheer amount of I-Frames it can put out and, with the 85 skillpoint, a free on-demand Iron Will.

Combine that with Hunter Sub for a SECOND Iron Will if your on-demand Iron Will is on cooldown and Automate.

I'm super disappointed because Hero is a very fun class to play. The actual gameplay of Hero is more fun than any other class for me. But the frustration of taking even a single hit ruins the class for me.

Minor correction: you only lose the 30% from Hero Boost if you lose 20% of your max HP in less than 5 seconds, not just with one hit, and that damage multiplier will be back to max in 30 seconds. This is actually a buff from its original version, where you started at 0% (meaning it took 1 minute to reach full power) and each hit dropped it back down to 0%.

Also, remember that the most efficient healing for Hero isn't Resta, it is tap Megiverse.

It sucks that they didn't give us the recent buff to Hero from JP but once they do your hero boost is a 80% dmg buff and you lose 20% of it if you get hit and recover 20% if you do a perfect dodge after. It's more forgiving to play once they buff it again. I wouldn't call it a situational class, it just requires higher skill to play it properly. Some people enjoy playing a more difficult class than other but that doesn't mean it's worse just because the skill ceiling is a lot higher. It's extremely versatile and rewards players that are very skilled at reading their enemies attack patterns.

stop relying on hu sub safety net and play the game

Even with a maxed out hero boost, they still do worse than other classes. It's only when you can play near the top of hero's skill ceiling that you'll outdo other classes.

Also hunter is absurdly powerful. One of the strongest classes.

Then this means the class was released the right way and is not the overpowered cakewalk mess some people say it to be. But from what I keep hearing, the same cannot be said about the newer classes.

@Kragwulf said in Is Hero... bad?:

No Automate, a worse (Yes, WORSE) Iron Will, and a loss of 30% Damage every time you get hit (Capped at 60%)

Yes, in theory, Hero could put out better DPS than any other class if you could keep the full 60% damage, but since that 60% isn't actually a buff and is instead treated as the baseline for Hero, losing it means either wasting half your focus bar to do acceptable damage again or doing worse DPS than any other class.

This leads to Hero requiring you to switch to TMGs to stay at range for most situations since taking a hit from even a single mob hurts the class so much that using the actual AOE weapon, Sword, is too great of a risk in most situations.

For context, Katana Braver does equivalent DPS to Hero's Sword+Talis DoTs, but doesn't lose DPS from getting hit and has a more damaging counter.

Hunter, yes, does less damage, but as a trade it will be standing while other classes are running away to use a mate/resta (Including Hero)

At best, Hero is a situational class. It makes running the PD Urgent and even the Phaleg fight easier thanks to being able to dodge through pretty much every attack, but it sucks in things like Ultimate Quests because there's so much going on you will get hit.

Even Fighter, also known as the "Get hit and die" class, has more defence than Hero due to the sheer amount of I-Frames it can put out and, with the 85 skillpoint, a free on-demand Iron Will.

Combine that with Hunter Sub for a SECOND Iron Will if your on-demand Iron Will is on cooldown and Automate.

I'm super disappointed because Hero is a very fun class to play. The actual gameplay of Hero is more fun than any other class for me. But the frustration of taking even a single hit ruins the class for me.

Hero is not a bad class. It's the class with among the single highest output with even moderate level skilled play.

Hero Will is not a worse Iron Will. I'll take a 100% guaranteed survival that works only once over 75% chance for survival because in Solo play, constantly gambling on RNG to survive is a crutch more than anything else and a determent to improving as a player. You're completely off base in thinking that a class that's designed to not get hit as much as possible, as a worse will than Hunter; a class that's supposed to get knocked around.

You do not need to switch to TMG for most situations. If a single hit is causing your Hero Boost to get jolted downward, affix more HP. Knowledgable and trustworthy JP players that are actual experienced in PSO2 to a moderate degree should have been telling you guys to prepare for EP5/EP6 affix meta which revolves around stacking HP (in EP5) and HP/DEF (in EP6). The only reason why you would use TMG for most of the content you're running is if you're using the post-buffed HR TMG where the counter DPS is by far best DPS. Otherwise, Sword is the top weapon and no amount of holding left click on TMG will compete with that in a reasonable manner.

Hero is not a situational class, at least not until Ultra Hard from JP makes its way to EN, which is where Hero usage falls off due to the constant cluster fuck of attacks and offscreening from enemies. But ya'll are no where near that and the content in EP5 is designed around abusing Hero's mechanics, range, speed, and power so almost all the content, if not all the content in EP5 is designed around this class.

Yes Fighter has more guard and iframes than Hero, but that's still nothing compared to Hero's step counter DPS on top of just standard rotations and access to Hero Time.

Hero has a sharp skill curve for actually performing well, and the class has been around long enough in JP for this to be showcased as an actual thing. It's not a bad class, not in the slightest. Even when UH causes Hero frustrations and drop offs, the class still performs well, just not as much as it should have been performing.

Don't hold rising slash and maybe, just maybe, you won't get hit and lose hero boost.

"No Automate, a worse (Yes, WORSE) Iron Will, and a loss of 30% Damage every time you get hit (Capped at 60%)..."

You do realize outside of HU/ET automate isn't a required take right? It's a nice training wheel for other setups but it's not a make or break for any build outside that one.

Iron will on hunter is % based that it will trigger. Hero's always triggers and all you need to do is take the skill for free at 85 that refreshes it's proc capability.

Currently it's 60% capped and 30% loss when you take 20% of your max HP damage wise. When we get it's buff it goes to 80% and you only lose 20% in the same condition. yet landing a hero counter instantly gives that back.

"This leads to Hero requiring you to switch to TMGs to stay at range for most situations since taking a hit from even a single mob hurts the class so much that using the actual AOE weapon, Sword, is too great of a risk in most situations."

TMG's and the talis to an extent are your mobbing tools. Sword is more of your boss damage move if they don't have moves that constantly push you away like Esca's first forms. Even then sword can abuse 2 moves that have guard frames So unless you're intentionally surrounding yourself you should be fine.

"For context, Katana Braver does equivalent DPS to Hero's Sword+Talis DoTs, but doesn't lose DPS from getting hit and has a more damaging counter. Hunter, yes, does less damage, but as a trade it will be standing while other classes are running away to use a mate/resta (Including Hero)"

Braver's buff indeed is easier to maintain. But it doesn't beat hero in optimal cases. Hero is sustain damage where as braver among many other is burst. Still being alive isn't a boon if you're not contributing enough damage.

"At best, Hero is a situational class. It makes running the PD Urgent and even the Phaleg fight easier thanks to being able to dodge through pretty much every attack, but it sucks in things like Ultimate Quests because there's so much going on you will get hit."

I spent a whole hour with a single friend in ult Nav and managed to keep my 60% buff up for minutes at a time once I got used to it. You use TMG's to manuver around and then blast down. And then sword to finish off stragglers/dps the bosses. It's certainly harder to run then a build full of safety nets. But it's more than capable of doing if you yourself are good.

"I'm super disappointed because Hero is a very fun class to play. The actual gameplay of Hero is more fun than any other class for me. But the frustration of taking even a single hit ruins the class for me."

To be honest it just sounds like you like to shut your brain off and dump damage. That's all fine and what not, different people have different preferences. But please don't call something bad just because it's not your cup of tea. Hero is more than capable of dishing out good damage currently and it's only going to become easier to do so once we get more patches. Hero isn't for you. And that's fine.

@SeriPSO2 said in Is Hero... bad?:

Don't hold rising slash and maybe, just maybe, you won't get hit and lose hero boost.

Or be like me and not care about optimization at all, just like in FFXIV. Play the game for fun, and not use sword at all. I've always hated melee classes in PSO2 (except Bouncer and Etoile.)

@Knight-Raime said in Is Hero... bad?:

and all you need to do is take the skill for free at 85 that refreshes it's proc capability.

I'm not good at not getting hit, so its 300 second cooldown is too long for me. Which is why I prefer Etoile Main (and not sub.)

@coldreactive said in Is Hero... bad?:

I'm not good at not getting hit, so its 300 second cooldown is too long for me. Which is why I prefer Etoile Main (and not sub.)

And to be honest, that's perfectly fine. Not every class jives with every person. It's good for people in general to acknowledge their personal synergy with classes.

Personally, I find the class a bit clunky to work with. I do okay with it, but I prefer a handful of legacy classes that I've gotten a more fluid feel from, specifically SB Bouncer, in regards to melee fighters. I don't know, the class's timings just seem really off to me, and I'd be okay with that if it wasn't for the fact that DPS-meta seems to end up going that way in the end, meaning I'm just going to have to adjust.

I'll figure it out, though.

@Silhouette said in Is Hero... bad?:

but I prefer a handful of legacy classes that I've gotten a more fluid feel from

A lot of force mains might switch to NGS because of this simple fact. Since Force in NGS is getting a daring major change or five to make it more fluid. I like Jet Boots Bouncer, which is mostly indicated by the fact I like Etoile Main. I've never really liked Techer though.

I would like force more, but I'm saving that for NGS.

well, I wouldn't say Hero is a bad class per se, but it does feel very clunky and I'm having issues with PP management.

@Kattous said in Is Hero... bad?:

well, I wouldn't say Hero is a bad class per se, but it does feel very clunky and I'm having issues with PP management.

Pretty much going to have to switch to TMG during PP downtime and use reload. You can get a few classes to 75 to get +2 PP from the class boost title, but it's not as much as people would want. Honestly, they should just keep PP as 100 (adding a % to it rather than it showing as 100 / 100) and just have passives for specific classes that reduce PP consumption instead. (Class boosts that previously added PP would instead reduce PP cost by 0.5-1%. Or increase PP Regen by 1% every second. This would be additive, meaning if you have 0 PP Regen, it would increase to 1% Regen.)

This is technically what FFXIV did with MP actually. They changed all of their jobs/classes to have 10000 MP (and on the party dialogue the MP shows as 100oo. Like a Percentage.) The developers of FFXIV stated that MP always was a percentage of cost as it was, even with the old MP amounts. So they just consolidated it for ease of balance/etc. Nothing increases MP maximum anymore, and the healer PIE stat now increases MP Regen instead.

I decided to make a topic about this actually: https://forum.pso2.com/topic/8505/pp-consolidation-streamlining-and-overhaul