If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!

@Anarchy-Marine

I think the JP build should reflect what the JP build is.

as the NA build reflects what the NA build is..

Japan gets to choose what the Global version of the game would be and they have chosen the NA servers. A decision I am fine with as I think we represent the series over here with a passion for their stories more so than a passion to be part of a subculture many weren't initially asking to be lobbed in with by default.

(referring to some of those who are demanding certain heights be allowed)

@Gamers-are-so-oppressed I found the quote that I used in the average Google search. I typed Weeb Definition. And the first one that popped up, was about as close to my understanding of the meaning. I know all about the people over at Crunchyroll and Anime News Network, and their opinions, but they are opinions I don't share. In fact, I've seen Anime fans outright denounce both for their remarks about these very topics. There is a large disconnect between Anime fans, and the industry that supplies them with the localizations they watch, which is why many have switched to self translation, and learning Japanese. Funimation being the worst offender, outright changing entire dubed lines, to try and change the entire context of the scenes.

Weeb used to be a derogatory term years ago, but after 2011, the term was hijacked, and Anime fans have spent years attempting to change the meaning, to something more positive. I'm using the most recent usage of the term and it's meaning. In recent years, I've seen the term in a more positive light everywhere, from Reddit, to Instagram, to Facebook, etc. Twitter is about the only place where it's not mostly positive, in fact Anime fans and even some artists there are treated like utter garbage by the hate mobs that form there. I got into anime back in 2008, so admittedly, I was only made aware of the negative usage of this word in 2010. Even then, the usage of the word temporarily died out. Its almost as bad as when school jocks used to call kids nerds for their enjoyment of comic books, and early Atari games. I've learned about gaming culture growing up, even was called a nerd when I was a kid, and that was at the back end of when that was considered cool, before gaming became mainstream.

Now nerd is used in a more joking, and positive light online, and done so in a way to remind us all when we were seen as weird for our hobbies, or were judged by others for the ways in which we used our down time. It's the same then as it is now, people are judging us in the same way gamers were first judged, and trying to gaslight us into believing we are wrong somehow. It didn't work then, and it won't work now on Anime fans, or fans of Jappanese culture in general. It's outsiders that still use the term in a way meant to insult. They are called normies, or people that simply don't get it. This is why people don't like when others join a Niche community, and try to gatekeep, because they fear the thing they love, changing to appease a new market, while throwing off the original target audience along the way.

A YouTuber buy the name of Nux Taku actually covers the topic of Gatekeeping in his latest video. Dude was talking about the niche community around V-Tubers being made mainstream, and how Pokiemane was being harassed for the hypocrisy of hate bashing V-Tubers, while becoming one herself, and had even had people just pissed in general that it was making things like Hololive and other such groups more well known. He also clarifies that it's not right for people to try and hate bash her for jumping in on the forge while the iron was hot. My words not his, as he phrased it different. I recommend checking him out, because it gives you perspectives on what drives arguments like these.

@Redex That's your opinion. I don't agree with it. Let's just leave it at than then, as we are at an impasse.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Hey you're the one that brought up the FPS comparison. All I did was related the stupidity of how Universe made some attacks bad* to the game type you were referencing.

* And there are no quotation marks needed, this is not a subjective matter. A skill that relied on attack distance to deal heavy AOE damage is definitively worse when it is deprived of that distance, whether or not that is caused by a ridiculous unintended dependency.

I've brought up FPS games because there's a whole esport world behind them and if it is ok there to have frame rate influence both performance and what a player can and cannot do, then I don't see why it should be a big deal in a pve game.

The reason is explained below.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Your words were "frame rate affecting one or more aspects was the norm". That's not an example. It's a vague statement and a false relation.

Actually this was my example, but it seems you decided to ignore it:

@condor said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!: For example, with certain frame rates you could reach strategic points that with low frame rates you coudn't reach and in CTF mode, where the flag stays on the ground for some time if you're killed, it's not a small thing.

It's neither vague nor unrelated if you fully understand what it means, in a CTF match, not being able to retrieve a flag from a certain spot reachable only with high frame rates.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

If it is still restricted then yes the Global change is preventing everyone making taller characters and that's kind of the point of the discussion here. Similarly if there are advantages to having smaller characters (likely hitbox related) then yes again the Global change is preventing everyone taking that kind of advantage again.

Since the restricion applies to everyone, I was obviously talking about the range we have at the moment and it's a non-issue since no one is able to take exclusive advantage of it.

If they ever lift the restrictions, it would still be a non-issue, since it's a personal choice wether to change your character's appearence or not.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Then again I suspect you may disagree on both fronts because you seem to view games as inherently confrontational among peers to the point that if nobody can take an advantage against each other within a server there's no disadvantage.

Indeed, but I'm not pro-censorship either, I think that it did more PR damage than good to PSO2 and SEGA in general, and I personally find the arguments of the pro-censorship side weak, with some at the limits of trolling.

If they remove the limits, I'll have no problems with it.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Exactly. Exactly. This is precisely why it is different! What you are explaining here is higher frame rate allowing players to perform better, which is entirely different to the game itself applying a lower multiplier.

It amuses me that you're basically explaining my point while simultaneously arguing against it. It feels like you agreed with what I said but don't fully understand it?

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Leaving aside your continued mistaking of this as min-maxing [...]

Actually it seems you do not fully understand what it means not being able to reach some spots, let alone see your target before he sees you and so on.

Yes, I agree with you, I simply do not consider "bad" something that can be obtained with a better rig , lowering quality settings and/or with a different character customization.

And it's not a "mistaking". If you can have the same advantages just by tweaking some settings and/or with a better rig, it righfully falls within the field of "min-maxing".

If it was an exploit I would understand, if that was restricted behind a paywall then we could discuss about it, but I would not make a fuss since this is a casual pve game.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Firstly, that's not for you to decide.

I'm not "deciding" indeed, I'm sharing my thoughts, I'm not downplaying anyone and I'm trying to be as polite as possible. If you read my post history, you'd see that I took the side of the players called "trash" for not being able to beat phaleg with S-Rank.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Second, PSO2 has competitive elements. There are four rankings every week at the visiphone (rare containers, personal quarters visitors and solo and group time attacks for rotating TAs). There's four challenge mode rankings. There's battle arena rankings and battle arena itself is a PVP mode. Alliances also have two rankings for AP and rare item collection, which are to my knowledge the only competitive element to not involve vast Star Gem rewards.

I already explained my POV on some of those, but for the sake of completeness: I personally do not consider "opening containers" a competivive element, specially with the cheating problems exposed in other threads, nor "PQ visitors", even if they have rewards.

Battle arena, which is what this game offers as PVP, is the worst PVP system I've ever seen, its issues have been vastly described and discussed elsewhere but, out of those, the one that I don't care about is the difference between the weapons in terms of overall performance.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

clearly improving your stats or play matters for these so they cannot be irrelevant.

That remark makes your position and opinion clear, but it rises a question: if you think that something readily obtainable (for free) is such a problem and relevant in a pve game, I guess you think that this game is p2w too?

At the end of the day, what you seem to consider a "big problem" can be also obtained with AC affix related items.

With the same logic, even selling fashion for meseta is problematic since you can readily buy heavily affixed items, whereas a f2p player could never ever be able to buy and/or apply the same affixes in a reasonable time or at all (keyword could, I didn't say it's impossible).

@RainGnyu said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Anarchy-Marine said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@RainGnyu If anyone's been indoctrinated here, it's you pal. Nothing that was removed, or censored in game was lacking morality. It wasn't even in any sort of grey area. I don't know how old you are, but in this world, people tend not to like people that place themselves above others or believe themselves to be holier than thou. Even a practiced Christian knows that we all fall short of God, if that's where your self-righteousness is coming from. You aren't a soldier of anything, but hatred and narcissism. Even your signature says to remember your name, and that you seek fame. I'm sorry, but fame is idolatry, and if your only goal is to be famous, because you have this inflated ego of yours, that is idolatry of the self. You judge us for wanting the game as it was in Japan, and by extension, you are judging the developers that originally made the game as it was. That's not mature in the slightest.

Another misdirection post!

Me wanting to be famous has nothing to do with some people’s immortality issues applied to the game through the viewing of censored 🤬 content that Sega as already censored but you don’t agree with and protesting against. You want me and others to accept your views on the censored content but you can’t accept Sega reason on the same issue.

The content is already censored I am defending and agree with Sega censored content choice.

Its funny...you say we cant accept Segas reason for censoring the game...

What exactly is that reason hm? Because the reason they did give (which was the esrb) was investigated and turned out to be a lie. Ive seen alot of you claim you support or know Segas reasoning even though theyve not given a true one. Youre only making assumptions at that point.

@RainGnyu said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Anarchy-Marine said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@RainGnyu Ok, and so is mine. You don't get to go around for two months straight, and ask moderators to shut down threads you don't agree with, and not expect some sort of backlash as a result. You could have stated your opinion, and left it it that, and ignored anyone attempting to argue with you, thus leaving the ball in their court, the responsibility of the argument on their shoulder, and you instead decided to jump on the bandwagon of the trolls attempting to lock the forum threads calling out censorship. I can link all of your in forum suggestion threads of you like. Its the pot calling the kettle black here. A classic case if hypocrisy.

Edit: You also are deflecting your rants that you go on. You set yourself up for this, and should take responsibility for yourself, but instead you cast the blame off onto other people's shoulders.

Yep! You are right I want all of them closed! I want the toggle censorship system in place if they decide replace the censored content. I want the game Sega wants to share with it’s player base not your game you want to indoctrinate everyone into. I am very specific in how I approach this argumentative issue! But the real issue is that you and your colleagues don’t want the toggle censorship system or do you? If you do then we are colleagues that disagree and can enjoy the same game in different ways.

This is a clear case of you not paying attention. EVERYONE ive seen on our side likes and wants the toggle. And plenty have stated that they do. I already adressed this pages ago to you...youre trying way to hard dude

@RainGnyu said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Anarchy-Marine said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@RainGnyu Go ahead and report it. There was nothing but the truth in that post. Your sitting here claiming that everyone you disagree with is brainwashing people, which is about as insane as the guy that kept linking his YouTube bookmarks, across every forum thread even remotely talking about censorship.

In fact, I could report you for claiming that everyone disagreeing with you here is trying to indoctrinate people, but seeing as that is an unfounded conspiracy theory, and a terrible arguing point, that would not be the mature thing to do.

Edit: If you paid any attention to my previous posts, you'd notice I only ever jump in like that when someone is up on a high horse, and is accusing people with nothing to base it on. It's a consistency I adhere to. You want to argue a point, don't use baseless accusations, that aren't founded on anything factual, or something that took place during the conversation.

Misdirection again and false misrepresentation! I use words like some and collective as to a specific group of people. You have a hard time comprehending what I am projected as an attempt strengthen your nonsensical agenda.

I never started the thread agreement Topic involving height and censorship of the storyline. But I do agree with censorship because it is Sega attempt to taking some moral responsibility In my opinion.

My opinion is valid? Noticed I said my opinion in most of my post as not to place my thoughts as your own.

This part is wild to me. So if censoring the game for global is Sega taking moral responsibility, are you saying that the jp client as a whole is immoral because it hasnt changed anything? Because if so youre more far gone than I thought

@Redex said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Akakomuma

I can't speak on behalf of PSU I kicked that one down the death pit in the NGS thread when they came for our Mags.

I am a Phantasy Star Online man first and foremost when it comes to this series.. and I re-call the original installment being very fun, highly rated and acclaimed, and with minimal next to no additional customization options or excessive accessories.. I'm not saying these accessories don't have a place in PSO2. I am just saying they have no place with someone attempting to publicly portray a 10 year old person at waist height crudely.

to quote what I said a couple pages back..

@Redex said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

it's only natural that the changes that were made were done to reflect keeping things inline with being a series that can still be enjoyed by everyone for its audience in NA.

Otherwise the premise of this topic title comes into play for many people.

My question for you is, what makes 12 year old less worse than a 10 year old? The current height options you can currently make an average 12 year old boy and girl. https://www.disabled-world.com/calculators-charts/height-weight-teens.php

My point is that if this is about minors, you can already do that. This height difference doesn't actually solve that you would have to set the minimum height to even higher. All this is doing is giving people who like to design all kinds of characters less options.

@Redex said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Japan gets to choose what the Global version of the game would be and they have chosen the NA servers.

Polite reminder, we still don't know who called for the changes or why. That was the subject of at least two of the previously closed topics.


@condor said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

I've brought up FPS games because there's a whole esport world behind them and if it is ok there to have frame rate influence both performance and what a player can and cannot do, then I don't see why it should be a big deal in a pve game.

You stated your belief, that - if I may summarise it this way - performance doesn't matter in the slightest unless PVP is the primary focus of a game. That's your belief and while I disagree with it, you're welcome to have it. To be honest, that discussion holds no interest to me, but you asked a question so I'll respect it enough to answer:

@condor said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

if you think that something readily obtainable (for free) is such a problem and relevant in a pve game, I guess you think that this game is p2w too?

I don't think SG is readily available for free. It's readily available for payment, or it's non-readily available with either a very limited supply for free or a slightly less but still limited supply for time spend which is not free and in some parts competitive.

None of this touches on P2W though, because - especially for someone with a PVP-focused mindset - its uses are pretty much entirely for convenience or cosmetics.

To try to bring this ever-spiralling diversion from the topic to a close, the reason I corrected you in the first place was because I described PSU as having frame rate affect something that was 100% game mechanic and 0% player performance, and you related it to something that was 100% player performance and 0% game mechanic. That's all.

And to return to why I brought it up in the first place, a fun anecdote: I bought a new PC during the days of Universe. The difference it made to the attack distance of that one skill was so dramatic I gave that PC the network name Jabroga.

Helping us back to the topic, I will openly cherry-pick the part of your reply that relates to that:

@condor said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Indeed, but I'm not pro-censorship either, I think that it did more PR damage than good to PSO2 and SEGA in general, and I personally find the arguments of the pro-censorship side weak, with some at the limits of trolling.

If they remove the limits, I'll have no problems with it.

This explains my position too. I'm fine with most of the changes being left in (again, default clothing on avatar characters is plausible!) but wouldn't care if they were reverted. Mostly I want closure so the community can stop turning potential new players away, and the simplest path to that would be an official statement of why various changes were presumably necessary so we can understand and move on.

If the main changes are all left in I would like still them to fix matters like plot inconsistencies and - SG scratch, no less - basewears not looking as advertised. That's pretty much because I dislike things not making sense, especially when it's clear none of these consequences were intended. Which makes me doubt anyone who says they were fully thought out and unchangeable.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

I don't think SG is readily available for free. It's readily available for payment, or it's non-readily available with either a very limited supply for free or a slightly less but still limited supply for time spend which is not free and in some parts competitive.

Let's have a look at the free options:

  • 3 Character slots
  • Salon passes (that are given for free, I have so many I don't know what to do with them)
  • Free SG from login, campaigns, keys (magatsu), fashion, casino and so on.

Other free options:

  • Create a new account
  • Delete a char

So there are enough free and readily available options for someone really committed into squeezing every bit from a game, yet you mentioned SG as the only one.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

None of this touches on P2W though, because - especially for someone with a PVP-focused mindset - its uses are pretty much entirely for convenience or cosmetics.

I clearly made two examples of what, given your criterias, should be seen (by you, not me) as problematic. You decided, again, to ignore the details I added and shun the fact that there are AC items that can improve your stats and/or that you can readily improve your stats by selling fashion for meseta and buy affixed items.

If you think, as you said, that the aspects you consider somewhat "competitive" in this game are affected by stats improvement, how can you say it's relevant if that comes from a better frame rate (free, lowering settings) and irrelevant if that comes from cash shop (not free)?

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

To try to bring this ever-spiralling diversion from the topic to a close, the reason I corrected you in the first place was because I described PSU as having frame rate affect something that was 100% game mechanic and 0% player performance, and you related it to something that was 100% player performance and 0% game mechanic. That's all.

And the reason I'm still correcting you is because you seem to not understand that what I described in my example is not "100% player performance and 0% game mechanic" as you say and think.

I'll give you this link with technical details about a game I used to play since it's useless to discuss it in this thread, hopefully you understand why you're wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he02vJvKaRs

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Mostly I want closure so the community can stop turning potential new players away, and the simplest path to that would be an official statement of why various changes were presumably necessary so we can understand and move on.

I agree here, but It's not just the community. The censorship "drama" has been amplified by popular reviewers on youtube too and it's driving away players from this game and possibly from NGS too. At this point, I think no reason would satisfy either side and it's safe to assume that SEGA will not explain their decision either.

They changed Slave to Raven without saying a word (a very silly change, whatever the reason, in my opinion), not caring at all for the (initial) confusion they caused.

All in all, there's more bad PR coming from the lack of communication with the community than from the censorship itself.

No one gives a **** about Slave to Raven. Literally no one. Don't bring that nonsense into this thread.

If you're talking to me, try to calm down and re-read what I wrote as it was not about "slave to raven", at all.

@DDDDLife said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Tell me something, Why is no-one complaining about games such as "Scarlet blade" ?

Why would we complain about that when we are playing PSO2? People who play Scarlet blade are complaining about the censorship in their specific forums/social media just like they are for every other MMO that has stupid censorship.

Coming back after a short break makes it sink in even further how stupid this whole thing really is. Kudos to those keeping up with it.

@Redex said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Anarchy-Marine

I think the JP build should reflect what the JP build is.

as the NA build reflects what the NA build is..

Japan gets to choose what the Global version of the game would be and they have chosen the NA servers. A decision I am fine with as I think we represent the series over here with a passion for their stories more so than a passion to be part of a subculture many weren't initially asking to be lobbed in with by default.

(referring to some of those who are demanding certain heights be allowed)

100%. I've said it many times, but JP should be JP and Global should be Global. Changes are made for a reason and if you don't like it, there's an accessible version that allows whatever you want to make. If a slight cosmetic change and alterations to an episode (that most people seem to brush past) that aren't detrimental ruin the game for you and you can't find any other reason to participate and enjoy yourself, then the game probably isn't your thing to begin with.

(General "you" here, not you Redex 😜 )

@Gamers-are-so-oppressed said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Anarchy-Marine said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!: I specifically said weeb culture is pretty degenerate. Things that most normal people would find cringey or weird or wrong (Episode 4) weebs generally love as it is the norm for their media. Just kind of the reality of it 🤷

Also 100%. I haven't been a part of the weeb/anime subculture since freshman year of high school, so it's been a shock being exposed to the underbelly of it essentially overnight. This loli bs seems to be so common, it's insane. The only reason people feel persecuted over it is because it's polluted their lives. A person's living space says a lot about them, and you can take a wild guess what those kinds of people's look like.

Japan is great, anime is great, and porn is great. But not this.

@ApollosAmour said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Coming back after a short break makes it sink in even further how stupid this whole thing really is. Kudos to those keeping up with it.

@Redex said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Anarchy-Marine

I think the JP build should reflect what the JP build is.

as the NA build reflects what the NA build is..

Japan gets to choose what the Global version of the game would be and they have chosen the NA servers. A decision I am fine with as I think we represent the series over here with a passion for their stories more so than a passion to be part of a subculture many weren't initially asking to be lobbed in with by default.

(referring to some of those who are demanding certain heights be allowed)

100%. I've said it many times, but JP should be JP and Global should be Global. Changes are made for a reason and if you don't like it, there's an accessible version that allows whatever you want to make. If a slight cosmetic change and alterations to an episode (that most people seem to brush past) that aren't detrimental ruin the game for you and you can't find any other reason to participate and enjoy yourself, then the game probably isn't your thing to begin with.

(General "you" here, not you Redex 😜 )

@Gamers-are-so-oppressed said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Anarchy-Marine said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!: I specifically said weeb culture is pretty degenerate. Things that most normal people would find cringey or weird or wrong (Episode 4) weebs generally love as it is the norm for their media. Just kind of the reality of it 🤷

Also 100%. I haven't been a part of the weeb/anime subculture since freshman year of high school, so it's been a shock being exposed to the underbelly of it essentially overnight. This loli bs seems to be so common, it's insane. The only reason people feel persecuted over it is because it's polluted their lives. A person's living space says a lot about them, and you can take a wild guess what those kinds of people's look like.

Japan is great, anime is great, and porn is great. But not this.

Once again. If your argument is minors or anti loli or whatever, that's still in the game. The point is moot. You can literally make characters on NA that are the average 12 year old in height.

So by that logic you are playing a game where lolis are running around free.