If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!

@Silvalance

I would consider that enabling on a certain level.

(Jokingly!) I don't negotiate with terrorists.

HOWEVER, I do think a feature like that could help on some levels to not overly aggravate me or other passing by players. Doesn't take into consideration how the overall scene of the game might look if said changes are made.

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@ApollosAmour said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

If someone is called a pedophile by someone else, they have the right to defend themselves.

If someone is not something bad, they have the right to not be called that thing in the first place. You continue to avoid this point. Why are you refusing to criticise those who are being rude to others?


@ApollosAmour said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Tell me that's not the conversational equivalent of "He can't have assaulted her, look at her clothing. She was asking for it!"

Hahaha, did you really just compare it to that? Holy s

And I'd do it again. I know guys who wanted to become primary school teachers, sports team coaches and other youth role models, who have been discouraged and in a couple of cases ultimately persuaded not to by words like "You have know what people will think of you".

Sure that is a broader and more serious societal issue, and you can point to this as a trivial example. But ultimately the presumption of wrongdoing is wrong on any level. And here it is also being (sometimes knowingly) abused to sway a discussion which if anything is surely even more absurd.

Do you know that no one is a bad person, or are you going with your gut like those making the accusations? Well, their gut and the sheer amount of loli/shota porn some have been shown to be linked to. Aside from that, nobody has the right to be called or not called anything. I can certainly call someone out for being rude, but I'm not going to have this skewed perspective that only one word or accusation is mean or that it's only coming from one side always without provocation. I could criticize those making the accusations, but if I don't really disagree with their sentiments, then why would I? Do you expect the same from everyone, or just those using words you dislike?

You're comparing apples and oranges. Someone getting raped for their choice in clothing or choosing not to pursue life goals because of what others think, while at the most basic black and white level could be comparable, are not even remotely the same. The reason I say it's invited is like I've stated in my previous posts: they're saying they like something that has a direct link to fictional (and sometimes real) pornography of children, which exists regardless of their intent, and being upset about the accusation while refusing to show any restraint in the place it's happening. It's not wise to go through an airport terminal and say "I like concealed weapons". Likewise, it's not wise to walk into a heated discussion on the sexualization of children and say "I like loli".

Again, does that prove that they're wrongdoing? No. But it leaves breadcrumbs for people to follow that conclusion. You can't really ask people to reserve their judgment after the fact.

@Redex said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Silvalance

I would consider that enabling on a certain level.

(Jokingly!) I don't negotiate with terrorists.

HOWEVER, I do think a feature like that could help on some levels to not overly aggravate me or other passing by players. Doesn't take into consideration how the overall scene of the game might look if said changes are made.

I think that is the only peaceful solution for everyone. And you should propose it too, so that this whole situation will end.

Honestly, there are a few ways to go around these problems, like a censor option that would default to being turned on and... I honestly doubt GMs would allow 4'7" characters running around doing something illegal. I do think the GMs would step in to stop such things from happening. People just want to have shorter characters than 5' or characters taller than 6'. I get that some people's imaginations can be... unsavory to show off, but at the same time.. Would you want yours restricted due to the fear of people accusing you of something heinous? I'd say just, maybe, test run it for a bit and see how it goes for the censor toggle? I get that Japan's laws and the rest of the world's laws are vastly different, but... if they didn't have any trouble with the height scale, why should we make it such a big deal everywhere else? Why restrict fantasy to reality due to people assuming this game has something sexual like that for height? Why remind people of how horrible reality can be in-game over something simple as height restrictions? If you don't like short people running around in-game, cool, fine. I just, don't get why one part of the world is fine with these things, but it turns into something toxic everywhere else.

@Silvalance

If you mean the cards, someone on this thread replied to one of my posts here saying that the censorship was literal racism. Me and my boyfriend like to joke that you can't have an opinion or make a joke (like LGBT+LMNOP) related to race / gender / sexuality these days unless you show your membership cards. As in, this is a bullshit argument people pull out of their ass and it needs to stop, and a test we do to see how "cracked" these people are in discussions is pull the cards and see their reaction. It usually tells us all we need to know.

If you mean the Lolita thing, the book is in fact the origin of the lolita/lolicon/loli negative connotations. The term comes from the book and its story. This has actually put people off reading the book even though it is a literary classic. In a amusing term of events lolita/lolicon has made the book more well known than the book that coined the terms.

Lolita fashion however isn't related to either, but someone was saying that they couldn't be lolita because of the height restrictions which is fucking ridiculous.

TBH I'm with you on closing the thread because holy shit calling the censorship racism and implying you can't dress in a certain fashion style because of your height are the most ridiculous arguments.

And honestly? I don't really care about the censorship and I would rather NOT see any tiny ass characters running around half naked roleplaying as children. I've had enough of that with Lalafels and Elins. What pisses me off about these threads is that there are already a fuckton of them, actually more and more every day, and it's all everyone cares about and it's always the same arguments and derailment and dramatic threats of quitting the game when I've already seen people backseat gaming in Urgent Quests and raging / insulting others when things aren't done exactly the way they say. I've seen people spamming in /toge to be buffed pre-entrance into the quest zones and spamming /toge for rezzes. Not auto-chat. Actual spam. They put the meseta bots to shame. Everyone is so worked up over fucking height and censorship, but they don't seem to care about the birth of an already toxic community. The elitists are rising and people are more worried about this? Seriously?

@敗者 said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Silvalance And honestly? I don't really care about the censorship and I would rather NOT see any tiny ass characters running around half naked roleplaying as children. I've had enough of that with Lalafels and Elins.

Haven't heard of Elins before, but... Lalafels, I did feel a bit uncomfortable with the ones that tried to do that, but compared to how many other players there were when I saw them? They were like stained drips in an ocean. Though... I wouldn't put this past normal sized characters btw. It's just... odd things we don't usually encounter every time, usually. I'm against that type of roleplaying, but I'm against keeping the height restriction. I get that it's truly cringe-worthy to see these things happening, got past experiences seeing it in chat logs in other games so, I can see where both the pro and anti sides are coming from. I just, have more faith there will be a better ratio of those that won't do that vs those who will. Update: Ok, so.. I did just look up what Elins are and, yeah I can see that problem as well, but more prominent.

@Michelle said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

The term loli / shota is used exclusively to indicate characters of short stature, generally cute in appearance, and as Luna also said, also the voice. Generally a high-pitched cute voice can be considered a loli voice. I kindly ask those who purposely want to win the argument by alter the terminology to stop, because you only generate misinformation.

Why can no one just say child like? I guess cause it hurts the movement?

There has been several pages linked in this thread regarding the definition. Perhaps you can add some more that only refer to "short" "cute" "high pitched voice".

I'm all for people expressing their removal of censorship but seems like at this point we are just playing mental gymnastics trying to avoid what these terms mean and are generally associated with.

Let's use an example from @Archetype-Luna as they are "anti-censorship" as I guess we are calling it.

https://youtu.be/r4p2Z43_GW4 Here is the term loli in a non-sexual manner by a Japanese Vtuber. Shigure Ui calls the voice she uses when she is imitating a little girl her loli voice. She is using it to describe her little girl voice.

Here is a screen shot for those too lazy to click the youtube link.

Capture.PNG

Non-sexualized? In this instance, yes. Do they look and sound like a child? Oh yes.

Here's another one where someone asks Fubuki to talk in her "loli" voice, which she immediately knows it is in reference to how she is playing as a baby shark so her little girl voice is appropriate.

Luna uses the words "baby" and "little girl".

So to think that the use of "loli" and "shota" only refers to "Short/cute/high-pitched" is just hilarious.

So when censorship folks come along and people say they want to play as a loli or like watching lolis surely you can see how people might be slightly concerned.

I think we could just solve this problem by making all characters, PCs and NPCs included, 6 feet tall. Easy compromise solution.

@ApollosAmour said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@Miraglyth said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@ApollosAmour said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

If someone is called a pedophile by someone else, they have the right to defend themselves.

If someone is not something bad, they have the right to not be called that thing in the first place. You continue to avoid this point. Why are you refusing to criticise those who are being rude to others?


@ApollosAmour said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

Tell me that's not the conversational equivalent of "He can't have assaulted her, look at her clothing. She was asking for it!"

Hahaha, did you really just compare it to that? Holy s

And I'd do it again. I know guys who wanted to become primary school teachers, sports team coaches and other youth role models, who have been discouraged and in a couple of cases ultimately persuaded not to by words like "You have know what people will think of you".

Sure that is a broader and more serious societal issue, and you can point to this as a trivial example. But ultimately the presumption of wrongdoing is wrong on any level. And here it is also being (sometimes knowingly) abused to sway a discussion which if anything is surely even more absurd.

Do you know that no one is a bad person, or are you going with your gut like those making the accusations? Well, their gut and the sheer amount of loli/shota porn some have been shown to be linked to. Aside from that, nobody has the right to be called or not called anything. I can certainly call someone out for being rude, but I'm not going to have this skewed perspective that only one word or accusation is mean or that it's only coming from one side always without provocation. I could criticize those making the accusations, but if I don't really disagree with their sentiments, then why would I? Do you expect the same from everyone, or just those using words you dislike?

You're comparing apples and oranges. Someone getting raped for their choice in clothing or choosing not to pursue life goals because of what others think, while at the most basic black and white level could be comparable, are not even remotely the same. The reason I say it's invited is like I've stated in my previous posts: they're saying they like something that has a direct link to fictional (and sometimes real) pornography of children, which exists regardless of their intent, and being upset about the accusation while refusing to show any restraint in the place it's happening. It's not wise to go through an airport terminal and say "I like concealed weapons". Likewise, it's not wise to walk into a heated discussion on the sexualization of children and say "I like loli".

Again, does that prove that they're wrongdoing? No. But it leaves breadcrumbs for people to follow that conclusion. You can't really ask people to reserve their judgment after the fact.

This is a long way of saying you wont call people out if they share the same sentiment as you simply because they share the same sentiment as you. Doesnt matter if theyre right or wrong.

And I don't understand how you speak as if the people who were accused are at fault even if theres no evidence to support an accusation like that. People simply saying things in certain situations doesnt give grounds to that either. Breadcrumbs mean shit unless it actually leads to something concrete. Accusations shouldnt be made by anyone especially stuff of that magnitude. Both sides have said things but more often than not, that starts when someone against the censorship removal insults someone who wants the removal.

@敗者 I'd be glad if all of these closed too, but I have to admit it's kind of nice to have a thread that is allowed to be derailed and where we can just talk about it. Tbh I only think they're asking for it to be closed now because it's not as cozy as the threads in in-game suggestions where they can smack talk in peace.

And honestly? I don't really care about the censorship and I would rather NOT see any tiny ass characters running around half naked roleplaying as children.

Back when these threads started, people like me were essentially saying the same exact thing. I still honestly believe that most people, if asked their thoughts on the matter, would say the same thing.

@Gamers-are-so-oppressed Reading one of the definition links you posted earlier (in the post I replied to) was really informative about how loli is used in a non-sexual context, but even in that article they referenced lolicon and how they're beginning to transcend beyond that. At its core, I think loli is true to the novel in which it was coined in that it's a fascination with young girls. Whether it's some sort of motherly instinct, a regressive schoolyard crush, or full-blown sexual attraction, it's in some way fetishizing young girls. It's the same with shota.

So while I do understand that it's not sexual for everyone, which I've understood for a while now, there's been this feigned ignorance on the subject in these threads. Nobody as invested in anime as the people here have spent this much time online without hearing loli and shota used in a sexual context. That's partially why I've been like, just say if you want it for loli if that's your reasoning. Obviously it's two-fold because of the pedophile accusations, but if you're gonna be vocal at least be honest so we don't waste time arguing all of these semantics.

@XenoBladeX37645 Nope. I've told one user that they were wrong for mentioning their kids in an argument, and I've told another user that they were wrong when they were over-embellishing descriptions of cut content. Both were in favor of keeping the changes. Typically I'll step in and be the voice of reason if need be, but after seeing things like the user against the changes whose Lovers Lab profile was posted with a header image of a group of young girls nude from the waist down with popsicles in their orifices (which I remember zero of the people for the changes calling out), I'm not chomping at the bit to say "hey don't say pedophile, that's bad".

@jimpjorps said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

I think we could just solve this problem by making all characters, PCs and NPCs included, 6 feet tall. Easy compromise solution.

Might as well be. Ship 3 feels like Themyscira now lmao

@ApollosAmour said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

@XenoBladeX37645 Nope. I've told one user that they were wrong for mentioning their kids in an argument, and I've told another user that they were wrong when they were over-embellishing descriptions of cut content. Both were in favor of keeping the changes. Typically I'll step in and be the voice of reason if need be, but after seeing things like the user against the changes whose Lovers Lab profile was posted with a header image of a group of young girls nude from the waist down with popsicles in their orifices (which I remember zero of the people for the changes calling out), I'm not chomping at the bit to say "hey don't say pedophile, that's bad".

So youve never checked someone about falsely accusing someone of being a pedo is what youre telling me. And the reason for that (as you stated before) is because you agree. How in turn does that make you any better? All that means is you side with faulty logic

Also how do you know those "girls" were actual girls in said header? Looks dont dictate what a child is as ive said numerous times here. And how exactly do you expect people to call that out when we arent the ones searching for peoples social medias? Thats you doing that. Youre the only one ive seen who cares enough to do that

@XenoBladeX37645

It's not a overly relevant thing to dwell on, if he says what he had seen was what he had seen why do you need a full description? ..move on.

If people wanna leave their contact/online stuff to be seen in the first place, more power to him imo.

The original topic at hand is to discuss the matter of not wanting certain restrictions lifted.

@jimpjorps said in If they lift the censorship and height restriction I will quit the game!:

I think we could just solve this problem by making all characters, PCs and NPCs included, 6 feet tall. Easy compromise solution.

Heck yeah! And make em buff too!