Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place

@ApollosAmour The main issue I see with the innerwear idea is that it doesn't work with outfits. Innerwear doesn't display if you use an outfit. There are a number of bikini's/swimwear that are outfits. This can become a bit complicated if we were to try to force innerwear onto outfits that do not support them.

As for the idea of a toggle... if the height of a character properly stored, you could use that as the determining if statement and simply not load a character model if they are under that amount.

A height toggle seems much easier to program.

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@Moei said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@Archetype-Luna Outfits don't use inner wear? Wow, I had no idea. Hmm, could probably just implement it as body paint then. (Like thigh highs)

pardon but i thought you just told me this was off topic...

That's right, I forgot. Either way, it'd essentially be the same as body paint since it'd be permanent.

@XenoBladeX37645 said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@Moei said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@Archetype-Luna Outfits don't use inner wear? Wow, I had no idea. Hmm, could probably just implement it as body paint then. (Like thigh highs)

pardon but i thought you just told me this was off topic...

Thank you, it is! I have the brain of a small bird.

If anyone wants to continue the toggle conversation please go here: An alternative solution for the height restriction condition - introduces a toggle option. (Also added to topic post)

Okay, so the point of this topic is to discuss getting an official response from decision makers. Since there seems to be interest in the body-paint/inner wear suggestion, I will be covering it to a thread as well.

Besides that I think in general there is support for getting a response from the decision makers and doing something to finally put this issue behind the community, even if some form of compromise is made. We just needed to know what stance the decision makers have, in order to know if our suggestions are even valid. I of course do not expect everyone to be happy.

The words "Sega" and "transparency" don't go together. The most transparent they ever get involves a partial truth... the recent interview which explains the reasons why the game was delayed for eight years is only a partial truth

If we get a reason I fear it may not be the full reason but more of a partial truth which they can say without embarrasing themselves or blaming a particular business partner involved (e.g the game may come to PS4 after, what if all this censorship is done to future proof the release to appease Sony and their recent censorship policies?).

@Moei , it may not be the official reason you want... but it is some potential reasons and in the event that our request falls on deaf ears from the Japanese team, its some things to consider:

  • Other platform requirements: The Steam release was planned from a while back but no comments could be made as a result of what I theorize to be a timed exclusivity contract which also included not mentioning other platforms so as to not take the attention away from the Xbox One and Windows 10 release (even when the Steam release was announced no mentions of Steam were made at all, just a "Coming to Other Platforms" statement at the end of the trailer). With the Steam release, the PC-platform exclusivity may be over but the Console exclusivity on Xbox One may not be up yet... if a PS4 release were planned they wouldn't be able to say anything on the matter till later. Why do I bring this up? Simply put... its common knowledge nowadays that, compared to Nintendo and Microsoft, Sony has some strict censorship policies designed as a result of, in their words; "The emergence of channels on sites like YouTube and Amazon Inc.โ€™s Twitch- games meeting Japanโ€™s laxer standards can get world-wide exposure.". As a result... its more than likely that the censorship was done to appease Sony's standards and nothing could be said cause otherwise... that would mean people find out that there's a PlayStation 4 release coming.

  • Global Rating Boards: I won't go into too much detail on this one since its straightforward; the ESRB might not have had an issue with the game... but it is available in many countries around the world. One has to consider the possibility that the rating board of one of these countries might have had an issue with the game's content.

  • Avoid Controversy: In this era where controversies tend to spring up quite easily one has to wonder... does Sega want themselves or Phantasy Star be associated with any potential controversies that may arise over some of the game's content? Its also been eight years since the franchise had a new game in the West and the expectations people have of the franchise from what they had last known it for is also completely different.

@Paladin said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@Z0DIAK-BRAVE said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@ApollosAmour said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@GM-Deynger I'm not in favor of the min height being restored, but Moei made a good suggestion before about if it is restored, having perma-innerwear on characters below the current minimum height similar to the change made to Al in Episode 4.

So the fix to the censorship is by usinga different censorship? Rofl. You guys crack me up.

We do not want half-naked Lolis, but will support creation of said loli so long as they are censored appropriately.

I believe that is fair and works for our North American morals and culture.

If you cannot see the wisdom in that, then you are not fit to be called a Zodiak Brave.

Please speak about yourself, because I'm not american I have not your moral and culture. Also, this is a japanese game, not an american game. Nationalism is even worse than censorship.

Edit: self deleted....really no point to start the same discussion again

@ApollosAmour said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@treos100 I get that you're angry, but I'm not your venting corner. I said I never accused you of it. But I'm saying there's repercussions to saying something like that that you should have been fully aware of, so it's important to think before you speak or else you end up in a mess like this.

I have to grab this from pages back but, what you are saying is: If you like animes with short characters or even CARTOONS aka Disney cartoons such as Phineas and Ferb, then it's okay for you to be called a Pedo.

That's not okay, it's never been okay and that counts as slander which will get a lawsuit on your arse IRL quite fast if you start yelling stuff like that.

There's common decency and if the first thought that crosses your mind or even the second or third thought is that the other person is a pedo for just liking an anime with a short character lets say Lucky star, then I got bad news for you as it would mean YOU made that connection and had that thought.

@Paladin I have to grab your comment aswell, this game is not NA.

It's Global.

Sorry to burst your bubble but NA is the minority when it comes to accepting cultures and differences in the world.

If you truly want a compromise, since you don't want to see loli characters then here's the best one yet: Toggle option so that every character under X height is blanked out for ya OR looks like the default character.

That's the best compromise.

Other than that, we really need to get transparency from the developers.

@ApollosAmour towards you again, I've seen comments that have good reasonings for why the restriction should stay, however none of these are arguably the actual reason why it is in place nor the answer to it since they do not come from the developer nor publisher.

They are guesses from the community at the very best.

We want the devs to be upfront, communicate and state why they did X thing.

If it's a consistent and good reason, fine.

If it's a BS lie like ESRB rating which was proven false then we get to call the devs out on it.

Even you can agree that a proper reason has to be something that holds up and not something that is proven false by talking to ESRB for example about the age rating.

@SleeprunnerInc said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@ApollosAmour said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@treos100 I get that you're angry, but I'm not your venting corner. I said I never accused you of it. But I'm saying there's repercussions to saying something like that that you should have been fully aware of, so it's important to think before you speak or else you end up in a mess like this.

I have to grab this from pages back but, what you are saying is: If you like animes with short characters or even CARTOONS aka Disney cartoons such as Phineas and Ferb, then it's okay for you to be called a Pedo.

That's not okay, it's never been okay and that counts as slander which will get a lawsuit on your arse IRL quite fast if you start yelling stuff like that.

There's common decency and if the first thought that crosses your mind or even the second or third thought is that the other person is a pedo for just liking an anime with a short character lets say Lucky star, then I got bad news for you as it would mean YOU made that connection and had that thought.

@Paladin I have to grab your comment aswell, this game is not NA.

It's Global.

Sorry to burst your bubble but NA is the minority when it comes to accepting cultures and differences in the world.

If you truly want a compromise, since you don't want to see loli characters then here's the best one yet: Toggle option so that every character under X height is blanked out for ya OR looks like the default character.

That's the best compromise.

Other than that, we really need to get transparency from the developers.

@ApollosAmour towards you again, I've seen comments that have good reasonings for why the restriction should stay, however none of these are arguably the actual reason why it is in place nor the answer to it since they do not come from the developer nor publisher.

They are guesses from the community at the very best.

We want the devs to be upfront, communicate and state why they did X thing.

If it's a consistent and good reason, fine.

If it's a BS lie like ESRB rating which was proven false then we get to call the devs out on it.

Even you can agree that a proper reason has to be something that holds up and not something that is proven false by talking to ESRB for example about the age rating.

"NA is the minority"

LOL, the amount of money that people from NA (mainly the US) would like to have a word with you. NA is far from being a minority.

Also, a lot of other countries have way stricter censorship laws than the US and Canada do, but keep being delusional.

@ApollosAmour said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@Liam-J-McAdam It's not a bad idea, but I think that would defeat the purpose of altering the height in the first place. Essentially it would put the burden on those who don't wish to see it, which is totally in favor of those who want it reverted, but I think Sega's concern is moreso it being present in the first place. The innerwear would appease those who want to make shorter characters while still being appropriate, which according to most in this thread is OK because they don't want anything sexual to be depicted. It's the best compromise for both sides in my opinion.

Sorry if I misunderstood you: Giving the pro-censorship players control and discretion is a burden?

Or is the entire purpose of it entirely preventative? Something to say "Screw you, you won't get this"?

@Machenta19 Money doesn't decide who the minority is.

And I'd like to have a word with you about the amount of MONEY that EU and others have given to the game.

And sure, we have stricter censorship laws such as not selling loot boxes to CHILDREN.

However we don't have any laws about PSO2's character creation, dressing up a fictional character in X clothes etc which you seem to delusionally think.

ApollosAmour said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@GM-Deynger I'm not in favor of the min height being restored, but Moei made a good suggestion before about if it is restored, having perma-innerwear on characters below the current minimum height similar to the change made to Al in Episode 4.

@GM-Deynger said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

Noted. ๐Ÿ™‚ Thank you for sharing.

@GM-Deynger First of all I apologize to answer directly to the Staff, honestly this is the first time I do it and I do not intend to abuse it.

I would like to express my opinion regarding that suggestion given regarding the perma-innerwear. If that were to happen, I think it would create further problems, because people want not only the removal of the height restriction, but the complete freedom of creation just like the JP version. A permanent innerwear could honestly create more discomfort than height restriction.

I think the best idea is the toggle option proposed in these threads:

https://forum.pso2.com/topic/7754/an-alternative-solution-for-the-height-restriction-censorship

https://forum.pso2.com/topic/7769/height-restriction-compromise-toggle-option

In that way I'm sure no one will complain.

Thank you in advance for the attention. ๐Ÿ™‚

@Michelle Nice one, avoiding further problems is always better. The goal is to try to end this protest as soon as possible with everyone happy