Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place

@Laep said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

The message has already been passed along like with other feedback. There's certain considerations that are made when bringing something to a global audience and every localization team will do it slightly different, in this case they made very minor alterations to the game to make it fit better for the global audience.

At this point these threads are really just containment threads.

There is no "Make it fit better", there only is the full game with translation and no censorship.

@SternalVessel61 I see you clearly have no understanding about the localization processes, or you're willfully ignorant to them. I'm leaning towards thinking it's the later for you given your intentions.

@Laep You are talking to people that I'm fairly certain, mostly also watch Anime, and speaking for myself, I don't like it when it gets censored due to what someone might get offended by, or find too lewd. A certain scene in an English dub of a certain Anime, done by Funimation even went so far as to inject politics into it by having a dubbed character mention the evils of the "patriarchy". ( If anyone here gets that reference, good for you)

I'm sorry, but I like art to be as it was when it was created, not cut, censored, or altered. Only accurately translated, in this case, flavor text and all. I don't live in America to deal with censorship, and I sure as hell wouldn't back any law that restricted drawn art film or games in that sense either. Censorship has a place in society sure, but it better have a damn good reason, not some arbitrary reasoning, or because someone might get offended. It sets a precedent for the future that I'm not a fan of. Not just in art related to what I mentioned previously, but in literature and in music as well.

Such censorship often seeps into everyday things as well where it shouldn't, and in the case of countries where a dictatorship has been established, that kind of thing also leads to abuse of power, when it comes to what is leaglally permissible when it comes to news and information. I abhor censorship via the excuse of localization, as much as I do a liar, on principle alone, let alone what it does to my overall enjoyment of the material. Even had I not known height was locked, and restrictions had been set in place where they didn't exist in Japan, I'd still be upset that I couldn't make my character as short as some in game characters. In fact that alone would make me question whether or not I got the full experience of the game.

@Anarchy-Marine I agree with you on the matter of the flavor text. However you have a really narrow minded view on this entire thing. This isn't just about the USA, this is about an entire global release where there's few countries that aren't supported. Very few pieces of media, such as PSO2, could ever go from being only officially supported exclusively in a single region to being localized without some level of change.

In fact it's really not even localization at that point, it's globalization, and you're being willfully ignorant if you can't understand that when it comes to bringing a piece of media like PSO2 to a global audience the teams doing that have to ask themselves things like: "Will this thing be considered distasteful or problematic by the average person, and if so, does it remove value from the game for the average person by minorly altering (if possible) or removing it all together?" And at the end of the day that professional whose job it is to carry out that task, sends their feedback to the JP team and the JP team probably has the final say. They have to determine whether or not something might be considered distasteful, obscene, or even illegal, in any one of the countries supported.

The game came out relatively unscathed, very minor and understandable changes, despite all the team had to consider.

Be careful talking about dictatorships and making analogies to countries like that because you'll start to sound like the person on here that was writing pages about how monsanto and coca cola are making child soldiers through controlling the media, but its also really in poor taste given the fact that there's people actually suffering in those dictatorships a lot more than the people playing this game not being able to watch child grooming cutscenes and make child characters.

@Laep Well I'm not that level of out there, I know however historically, that some control here, can lead to newfound grounds for control there. That's how it starts. Art, music, moves, even literature have in the past been censored, or altered as a propaganda tool. Happens all the time in America, both political parties do it to some degree or another with news, and commercials, as that's where they have been contained to, and even that's annoying.

If we're taking shots in the dark, you are starting to remind me of that user that went by PhantasyStar7*9. Dude got perm banned for inciting hate brigades against forum users, and kept trying to silence other users by saying that censorship shouldn't be talked about, and kept trying to actively get threads locked by calling everyone a child groomer, all while whitch hunting said members through the forums. You have in the past, indirectly called others in these very forums some of those exact things on numerous occasions, linking that to weebs whom love Anime.

If you want to go down that road, we can, as I've caught a few people on here in the act of making duped accounts, in an attempt to silence users they call degenerate weebs, among other insults. How many accounts do you have on these forum threads Laep? Your demeanor overall has run sour, especially as far as when it comes to what you see as weeb trash collabs. You indirectly insulted fans of Nier by saying that. I saw all your replies there. I took that in Jest at first, but your followup posts told me otherwise.

I believe a forum wide investigation into all parties involved in these threads is needed regardless, as I'm seeing signs of forum users using multiple accounts to sow chaos. I'd say the more brazen, the higher they should be held suspect to that being an alt, while their main sits in reserve. And frankly I'm tired of seeing the same talking points echoed across multiple accounts. And you are becoming less and less respectful of others over time, repeating what two other users kept on saying was truth.

Either way, please don't compare me to someone who uses Monsanto, and the like, as a talking point about control. I don't need to use that, I use governing patterns recorded throughout history. I can use those all day to on principle, stand against what I see is unnecessary censorship.

The legalities have been discussed to death, nothing that was removed is illegal in any country, and only some people seem to think height equates to age.

@Anarchy-Marine said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@Laep You are talking to people that I'm fairly certain, mostly also watch Anime, and speaking for myself, I don't like it when it gets censored due to what someone might get offended by, or find too lewd. A certain scene in an English dub of a certain Anime, done by Funimation even went so far as to inject politics into it by having a dubbed character mention the evils of the "patriarchy". ( If anyone here gets that reference, good for you)

Ms. Kobayashi's Dragonmaid.

@Liam-J-McAdam said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@Anarchy-Marine said in Disclose WHY the height limit was put in place:

@Laep You are talking to people that I'm fairly certain, mostly also watch Anime, and speaking for myself, I don't like it when it gets censored due to what someone might get offended by, or find too lewd. A certain scene in an English dub of a certain Anime, done by Funimation even went so far as to inject politics into it by having a dubbed character mention the evils of the "patriarchy". ( If anyone here gets that reference, good for you)

Ms. Kobayashi's Dragonmaid.

I wish I had the disposable income to randomly send you a prize for that one. Lmao.

Going to revive this thread because I don't want the discussion to die.

Either Sega doesn't trust us to react favorably, Microsoft/Silicon Valley doesn't trust us to be decent people, or somebody up top thinks there are far more incels than there are decent players.

I’d be fine with the inner armor suggestion. I want to dress my main like me. It isn’t much different than the NA changes TERA had to add to their Elin race but we have more freedom with our clothes. This sounds like a fair compromise for all parties concerned.

@Milk Wait? What change are you referring to? Enmasse's Tera reverted all censorship to their game a long while ago, to recoup losses on sales, a decision which temporarily saved their company.

Innerwear doesn't need to be censored, to fit into some ridiculous belief that everyone is going to immediately make short and almost completely nude characters, that would make some uncomfortable ( as apparently height equals age to them for some reason). I rarely see that on players anymore, as most of them got bored with that look, or the game as a whole, as I mostly see tastful outfits, with minor sex appeal. Usually the outfits are on par with what's seen in the story, and none of that is super risque.

Hell I've seen more swordfish with hats, flying rappies, or Dreamcast consoles than I've seen bikini/super skimpy outfits lately. Haven't seen that mythical blob thing shared on another thread yet, but it's still pretty tame these days.

@Anarchy-Marine

Old changes when the game was still fairly new to the states. It’s interesting they reverted it.

On my ship people idle in the lobby doing poledance, dance 20 or similar dressed exactly how I described. Sure we have Rappies wearing oversized cats and the Marlin head guys but we have a large chunk of this too. Then according to my husband we still have the symbol art, which he saw and reported yesterday. I think they simply do it to make people uncomfortable but whatever their reasons are, it’s not acceptable.

Look ideally we could have our height sliders and people wouldn’t go out of their way to abuse it but I really don’t think it’s possible. If inner armor is the only compromise we can make to even get the sliders back, I think that’s better than nothing. We can keep beating our heads saying yes, SEGA saying no or we can find an arrangement the company can live with rather than hearing no for the rest of our days. It’s a tough decision.

@Milk I don't believe in censorship, based on the potential that one person could harm another person's comfort level, in the same sense that I don't believe that I should fear going outside my home, based on the potential that I could die from something. The potential will always be there, safety is a lie, and so is the notion that you will always be comfortable in life. It's how you deal with it that matters, and I'm tired of everyone needing a damn safe space, at the cost of others happiness. If you don't like what another player is doing, do as I and all of my friends do, and walk away. Block them if they go further and try to harass you, report them only as a last resort.

You are an adult, as are the others that play this game. (Well, I hope they are, given the rating, but we all know most parents these days, can't be bothered to be an adult and monitor their children, but hey, s*it happens.) So in that sense, everyone should act like it, and stop acting like children that cant handle adult concepts. Its likely why anyone is bothering to try and make others uncomfortable in the first place. You are giving them exactly what they want by reacting as you do, by taking such offense, as it feeds their laughter. They are trolls, and getting upset is amusing for them.

@Anarchy-Marine

Where exactly in my reply did I say I reacted at all? I’m not feeding the trolls, I turned off symbol art and I don’t talk to most players on my ship.

Can you take it down a notch? I’m not a special snowflake needing my “safe space” or a child that, I’m looking at it through the eyes of a company with money and reputation to consider. I would like it to be lifted but I understand why it can’t in its current form, no matter how badly I wish it to be so.

You seem to be under the impression that I’m pro censorship. I’m not, but a compromise will have to be made at this point if we want them to even consider it. If that weren’t the case, wouldn’t the numerous complaint threads be enough persuasion?

@Milk The only compromise I'd accept is a toggle, that doesn't affect me in a permanent way, like this whole innerwear idea does. I don't want a cut down version of the game, because someone might get offended by what other players are doing with their characters, is what I'm saying. I called out the idea of reporting players for what they decide to do in game, short of anything illegal, like RMT, as childish, because it is. Anything short of something that could legally impact the game, is not report worthy. Moderators don't need to be wasting time on every little offensive player, when a real issue like RMT is still a major problem. And I never said you were pro-censorship. I was stating why I didn't like your compromise

You are also trying to tell me that your husband reports all of the bad symbol arts, and you are also claiming in the next post that you both shut that off. That's a major contradiction of information right there. If you shut them off, you have nothing to report. Then there is the question of what is so bad that you deemed it report worthy, because on Ship 3, I've only ever seen animated boobs, and that has almost completely ceased about four months ago. Lately it's nothing more risque than what you'd find the most lewd player wearing. Did the worst offenders migrate to your ship or something?

And another thing, if you never bothered talking to anyone, I could see why you wouldn't understand that your reactions are a bit overblown. I've seen those that reside on specific blocks, that do crude symbol arts, later be the most welcoming to new players. Generally pretty chill, and down to earth. Probably because they don't sit on moral high horses like some that are pro-censorship do. I don't like most of the symbol art they share, as it's 80% crude, and 20% memes ( I like the memes). But their overall character is better than most business and political officials, as they seem more honest with themselves, and with others.

And you want to talk about a companies reputation. The only one that matters is the reputation amongst players in this case, not some corporate bs that isn't supportive of their community, as that community makes up 99.9% of their customers. No customers, would mean no business and company to begin with. A company delivering what was promised would mean they have integrity, and would thusly garner more support, as many companies can't say the same these days. Censoring any aspect of the game as they have, means they have lost credibility as a company. If you create something, and your community enjoys what was created, stand by the product, and don't let naysayers dictate future actions, and don't tell someone you are giving them 100% of a localized content, when you are only giving them 95%, as that's disingenuous at best.