All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game

9 pages later and all you see is the exact same people grabbing every straw possible to deny what they are, even when their obvious obsession with those scenes just prove it further.

@Lemon-Sama I agree that the smaller characters causing any kind of paraphilia is false, especially since most of us are adults so it likely would've manifested in some form already. Even if someone is into loli/shota, it doesn't mean they're going after kids in real life either. The accusations stem mainly from the people that are very invested in this topic, to the point where they're convinced the government is involved or they're contacting the FTC or they're being victimized by Sega, who're also shown to be into loli/shota (sometimes blatantly sexual, other times not). And if they're not into it, they go out on a limb to either ignore or defend those who are. That's not even taking into account the arguments being made. It makes people start to wonder why these minor changes are so devastating for them and why it's so deeply personal, and they connect the dots.

I still wouldn't call it a smoking gun to convict anyone of being a pedophile, but it's not coming out of thin air.

@Espion said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

So are we saying that the developers and people who play the JP version of this game are all p***philes?

Would like to know the pro censor input on this, as I don't remember it being mentioned.

@ApollosAmour said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

It's always funny to me that whenever we make a good enough argument, we're automatically trolls or alts or sent here on payroll by the government or some sort of company. Or when we're not even talking about it, the topic deflects to "you think I'm a pedo don't you?!". It seems like there's always some convenient excuse for any argument, which is partially why it's such a complicated thing now versus the other threads asking for different changes.

No idea if you have me blocked but here I go. I'll see this from a mostly neutral view. When a pro-censor's argument is to imply through a lot of smart looking words (and in some cases, direct accusations) that some of the anti censors they are addressing are p***philes or some kind of disgusting pervert with no real life proof other than seeing them defending uncensored pixels in a forum, yes, they WILL deflect it all because the only proven fact here is that we have never met them irl nor seen any other thing from them out of the text they type here. If the pro-censor argument switches to what people like Redex says, then people will respect it much more. Why? because Redex is not accusing anyone directly of anything. He said he doesn't want to experience any creeps doing it, without pointing at anybody here. And that, I can stand for.

@ZorokiHanuke said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

Would like to know the pro censor input on this, as I don't remember it being mentioned.

Of course you don't remember it being mentioned, it was never mentioned. It's just yet another strawman from them.

They keep forgetting that Japan and the Western world have very different cultures.

@ZorokiHanuke said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

that some of the anti censors they are addressing are p***philes or some kind of disgusting pervert with no real life proof other than seeing them defending uncensored pixels in a forum

Tell me then, what would you call someone who is fighting against the specific censorship of scenes involving underage teens bathing together, talking about breast size and groping each other? Or the specific censorship of the height limit DESIGNED to prevent people from making characters that look too closely to children, especially in the West when this is far more hated.

There's a word for it, but it seems escape me for the moment. They're pretty much acting like how Kohri did when she first met Al and even Hitsugi called her out on it, only they're trying to find every straw possible to deny that they're acting like this.

@Ephemiel Oh, that's common knowledge indeed. But since the content being frowned upon is the same, should the opinion change depending on the nationality and culture of the person consuming such content? Can the Japanese go mostly scot free because it's "their culture"?

As for what the anti censors defend, unless I'm disastrously mistaken here, a p...phile is defined by their attraction to real life pre pubescent minors. Key word Real Life. Of course, liking the bath scene AS a sexual scene would blur the lines on what they may like, though there's still no real proof of it triggering real life p..philia, in the same way it has been proven that not all abusers of minors are actually p-philes, as odd as that may sound. Then again, in the case of this scene, anybody liking it from a pervert point of view would be closer to hebephilia (I think that's the correct word) since the minors are not pre pubescent save the boy who's in between.

As I said, I saw the scene and felt neutral about it. Way too much anime with similar skits out there that may have already normalized the content for many of the more hardcore anime consumers. Probably enough to blur the lines on what's accepted as moral here in the West. Then again, the biggest issue here is not crime or mental disorders, but morality.

I mean, I find some behaviors shown by some anime lovers pretty disgusting and morally low for my standards. Like the open lewding of any female, minor or adult.

Speaking personally for myself, I've never called anyone here a pedophile, but my discomfort with some of the people demanding the content restored stems from seeing their online presence outside of the forums. Someone that was very adamant about the height restriction had one social media account where their header was NSFW loli artwork of a group of girls in bikinis with their bottom halves exposed except for the popsicles they were "using". It's not the first time I'd discovered something like that either, so combined with what I previously said, what am I supposed to think y'know?

@ZorokiHanuke said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

Can the Japanese go mostly scot free because it's "their culture"?

.....yes, since they made it, for them, and they're much more lenient about it.

And when they brought it here, they removed it because they knew it was far less lenient here. Is this so hard to understand?

@ZorokiHanuke said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

a p...phile is defined by their attraction to real life pre pubescent minors

So you're saying that these people can happily like animated minors, happily admit it and you wouldn't be calling them the P-word because "they're not real".

@ApollosAmour Eh, nobody can deny the existence of the pervert ones. Nobody. And any anti censor seeing this can only nod in agreement. I can also assume there could be some pro-censors (posters or lurkers) also vouching for or not caring about the blatant sexualization of adult characters in lobbies, and that's as tasteless and disgusting to me as using virtual minors. But there's a difference between seeing who's who and blanket accusing everyone. So if you do point at the person and call them out of their lewd behavior somewhere else, then trying to come with a holier than thou' excuse here, that's at least something that doesn't affect anybody else, and will be between you as the uncoverer and them as the hypocrite. Though I personally just debate the points and not the people behind them. But each has their way to debate and I can only respect that.

I do understand (albeit not always agree to) the concept of allowing media in it's original way, unaltered by any censors. Again, understanding this concept does not mean I'm always agreeing to all of it because it depends on what kind of media we are talking about. We all have different bars and lines we do not cross nor allow to be crossed. Some may be higher, making them more lenient with content. Others are shorter, with people stopping on their tracks at something others may call tame. But it's their right to set up all that for themselves. As I said, in the case of the scene that's been cut, I felt neutral about it. Didn't see much important content of value, and the attempt at being lewd failed to impress me. So I ended up not caring for the scene's fate at all.

@Ephemiel said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

@ZorokiHanuke said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

Can the Japanese go mostly scot free because it's "their culture"?

.....yes, since they made it, for them, and they're much more lenient about it.

And when they brought it here, they removed it because they knew it was far less lenient here. Is this so hard to understand?

What I was referring to was how the current people defending the censors here would see them. Of course it's accepted over there. My question is, if a pro censor who posts here and sees a westerner watching and liking a Japanese lewd scene involving minors and calls foul on them, they should also call foul on a Japanese seeing the same scene and reacting the same way.

As for definition of p...phile, if we are going to use actual scientific or law definitions, yes, they are not that if they do it only for fictional non existing characters, at least as far as I understand. I said before, I could be completely wrong on this one and maybe the law and science DO denominate them as such as well. I'd need to read some more on the subject. Now on the other hand, said person would still be a disgusting creep and pervert in my opinion. Not the p word, but a word of disgust nonetheless.

@Ephemiel said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

@ZorokiHanuke said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

Would like to know the pro censor input on this, as I don't remember it being mentioned.

Of course you don't remember it being mentioned, it was never mentioned. It's just yet another strawman from them.

They keep forgetting that Japan and the Western world have very different cultures.

@ZorokiHanuke said in All the crying about censoring those scenes is going to hurt the game:

that some of the anti censors they are addressing are p***philes or some kind of disgusting pervert with no real life proof other than seeing them defending uncensored pixels in a forum

Tell me then, what would you call someone who is fighting against the specific censorship of scenes involving underage teens bathing together, talking about breast size and groping each other? Or the specific censorship of the height limit DESIGNED to prevent people from making characters that look too closely to children, especially in the West when this is far more hated.

There's a word for it, but it seems escape me for the moment. They're pretty much acting like how Kohri did when she first met Al and even Hitsugi called her out on it, only they're trying to find every straw possible to deny that they're acting like this.

First off, we have all been teens.

The talking of breast size is not some taboo thing that happens.

We all have most likely talked about breasts and their sizes when we were teens (Between 14-18).

Second off, only ARU went and groped someone ACCIDENTALLY cause he was blindfolded and being scrubbed by hitsugi which Aru himself protested again.

He could not see and grabbed on something and tried to feel what it was cause he had no idea what he groped.

What's so bad about that?

What's so horrible about it?

Kohri's reaction sure takes anyone by surprise BUT if you have had a girlfriend, go massage their breasts sometime with consent and tell me what did they think of it.

It's pretty sensitive isn't it?

Some people react with more glee, some people react with violence.

Kohri just happens to react with glee and liking it (Note: Aru is classified at the minimum to be 16 due to being an arks field operative which is multiple times discussed that you have to be atleast 16 to work field ops like our main char. Info comes wiki's, anime and instructional booklets released by SEGA themselves.)

So all the characters are teens and everything that happens is more or less what Teens have done or fantasized of doing.

Context matters a heck of a ton, and a lot of you people are taking the scene OUT OF CONTEXT.

@ApollosAmour How is it ironic? I know what I like lol. The point was that they were condemning it while having that avatar.

Sorry this isn't your cute little "gotcha", Yakuza boy.