Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?

@Rumi7364 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@Michelle I don't see anyone called Craig in the forums, but he sounds like a casul who never played other games that has playable short characters in it, and that this is his first MMO. That aside, how is wanting censorship gonna make me a potential criminal? I just want the game to maintain it's integrity, as it's originally designed.

I just feel like censoring games in general is an insult to the players, as if the developers are judging their player's personality, intellect and their ability to discern reality from fantasy. This game is rated M for mature from what I heard right? I don't see anything wrong with my point of view.

Craig is IAMCRAIG-0, he was also banned once.

Unfortunately we have no say in this forum, whatever our thoughts and motives are being hijacked by these individuals. I understand you perfectly, even I fight to have the game in its entirety.

@JPSE13 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@Michelle said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@IAMCRAIG-0 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

Like with how they've switched to saying 'p-word' instead of pedophiles, right?

Because saying that word now disgusts me, it has been said too many times because of you. I'm sick of it.

Why is saying "pedophile" gross? Please don't tell me you're one of those idiots referring pedophiles as "MAPS" or whatever bullshit.

I don't know what you're talking about, I'm just tired of reading that word, because it's absolutely not related to the topic. And they use that word to accuse us indirectly. For example: I want the height restrictions removed, they accuse me of defending pedophilia. There is no correlation between height and pedophilia, but they have written bullshit for hundreds of posts and claim that is the truth.

@Michelle said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@Rumi7364 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@Michelle I don't see anyone called Craig in the forums, but he sounds like a casul who never played other games that has playable short characters in it, and that this is his first MMO. That aside, how is wanting censorship gonna make me a potential criminal? I just want the game to maintain it's integrity, as it's originally designed.

I just feel like censoring games in general is an insult to the players, as if the developers are judging their player's personality, intellect and their ability to discern reality from fantasy. This game is rated M for mature from what I heard right? I don't see anything wrong with my point of view.

Craig is IAMCRAIG-0, he was also banned once.

Unfortunately we have no say in this forum, whatever our thoughts and motives are being hijacked by these individuals. I understand you perfectly, even I fight to have the game in its entirety.

OH, okay yeah I missed his names because it was in all caps, I kinda just dismiss those names in my head cause it hurts my eyes to read full caps name, it's like a kid trying to yell and bug you for attention, so just kinda made a habit of not bother reading into texts in all caps like that.

That said, I get branded as a criminal just for voicing my opinion sounds like a pretty dangerous line of thoughts, it's the kind of idea that sounds like it'd lead to thought policing, that's no good.

I think I have derailed the discussion from what the OP had intended enough, so I will honor the ground rules the OP had setup and end this here, and not post anything else that doesnt contribute to the discussion.

@Rumi7364 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

I think I have derailed the discussion from what the OP had intended enough, so I will honor the ground rules the OP had setup and end this here, and not post anything else that doesnt contribute to the discussion.

Unfortunately the discussion has already been derailed by those people. Initially the thread was fine, then suddenly they said that we are dishonest and that the thread is useless, and they started writing non-related stuff to hide our opinions and to put us on the wrong side. It is exactly as you say, they are dangerous.

Uncensor the game. All the content means all the content.

Trying to analyze what happened:

The thread started well, but then suddenly on page 2, IAMCRAIG-0 started invalidating the whole thread by writing:

IAMCRAIG-0 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

I want an insta ban on anyone that uses the tag loli/shotacon in LB or in their character name, but we can't have everything.

Then again always the same user, page 3:

IAMCRAIG-0 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

Honestly if you guys are that upset at not seeing the characters naked, you can just google them.

You might get put on an fbi watchlist mind you.

After this, the user ApollosAmour replied to IAMCRAIG-0:

ApollosAmour said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

I honestly agree with this sentiment. I've google-fu'd some of the names really adamant about keeping this sort of content and it's just about what you'd expect. Let's just say it's obvious why they want it restored.

Even in-game, people with those sort of names are most likely to have erotic auto-chats and pornographic SAs. It's enough of a problem that I think banning based on names might curb it a bit.

In this exact moment the thread is dead. He started accusing others based solely on his sixth sense.

And so on.

So the fault is not ours but yours, we are polite, you are oppressive and you do not know respect. Also don't respect some easy rules like the one of this thread.

Just ignore the trolls honestly since if they try to derail threads then they will get nowhere since if the sense of non censorship is really stronger than the pro censorship then you will easily drown them out without an issue. They are looking for you to react and point score with them to get the thread shut down with no consequences to them so please stop feeding them the troll food they so desperately need and focus on the thread topic.

Censored Gaming(youtube channel and twitter) released a video about changes a few hours ago but also missed a lot of things. I'm not sure why it took them so long- usually they make a very elaborate video on all the changes before a game even launches. For PSO2- it seems their research was very surface level and could be almost twice as long with more info about the changes.. But eh- some people hearing it for the first time.
Sega must know they would be fanning the flames if they acknowledged changes at this point. But more and more people will become aware of it over time anyways- I think it would still benefit them to be more transparent- give us a reason for the change- and give us a way to voice opinions if it's possible to revert some of it. I don't think there is some government forcing the change or some secret illuminati group blackmailing them. The change has to be 100% on Sega or MSoft and that at least would be nice to know.

@IAMCRAIG-0 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@JuggernautGTX https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita_(term)

Even luna dropped the bullshit after linking this.

I didn't drop anything. I still use loli and shota as slang terms for small female and small male respectively. If I stopped posting it is because I went to sleep because at the time was 4 AM for me.

@tiger-1 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@JuggernautGTX i only know "small characters" of what you describe. no to your question, but when tied to something thats focus dwell on something like bath scene in question then the water is muddy

There really isn't any muddy water. The scene itself is tame and there are plenty of anime and manga that uses the same tropes as the scene. The scene is nothing outrageous. Scenes like that have been around for decades.

There are also plenty of reasons why someone may want the scene restored that are not pedophiliac in nature. My personal chief reason being that censorship is a slippery slop that often brings more censorship. The removal of the scene sets a precedent for the removal of anything that may remotely cause an outcry.

As for shonen and shojo, they can also be used in that regard, but I more often see them being used as the term for their respective genres. I rarely hear them used to refer to characters.

I should have clarified. It is primarily the genre, but I meant more "shonen" and "shoujo" characters, who were (and are) typically child characters in the genre which is geared toward children. I think the first instances of having older characters in the lead with these series happened in the late-60s or early-70s, but it's still typically child characters.

Otoko no ko and onna no ko refer to boys and girls respectively in everyday japanese.

Yeah, that's true of real people, but I haven't seen it used as often with characters. But I admittedly also don't watch a lot of anime lol

There is no gray area in this argument and I have absolutely zero tolerance for it or those that would claim ignorance, especially when typing loli or shota in google search would more than likely bring up search results for websites like a certain 'infamous' shadman.

Searching the word "loli" has no nuance, linking to 3 different wiki pages about the term as influenced by the novel Lolita, the lolicon genre, and the legality of drawn pornography depicting minors. "Shota" seems a bit more gray, but moreso for a lack of coverage. It actually leads to an AMA on reddit with a registered sex offender who was busted for having it on his hard drive in a country where it was illegal.

I see the term used in non-sexual connotations plenty of times. Terms can evolve. The word gay used to simply mean happy, but has taken additional meanings over time.

Not exactly happy, moreso spirited and lively. A lot of words that essentially translated to "over the top", "bizarre", and "garish" were then borrowed to describe homosexual men. I wouldn't compare that to "loli" or "shota" however, since the base meaning is "sexualized depiction of fictional minors" while the meaning you guys are talking about is "depiction of [fictional] minors". It's not nearly far enough removed to not bring the base meaning to mind.

i agree with wanting representation like user susystars mention their dwarfism, perhaps could be special case for individual account, but in my case i would not ask developers to make me wheelchair

Representation is definitely an important aspect, but the restriction is a compromise imo. The characters still can't get very small without the cap unless they're auxiliaries, and even then they're scaled down rather than shortened.

It's more that this game's community has already proven what they'll do with the options available, and like someone who continually tries to stick their dick in a light socket - at some point you have to take the lamp away.

That's why there's a compromise in place imo. Again, we don't know any of this for sure, but it seems the most likely to me.

I don't know what ship you are on, but I haven't seen anything like that. Yeah I've seen adult stuff, but it's usually depecting adults in regards to symbol art. Edit: It's also rare, and bound to block 69.

It's definitely there. I will say it's not every single SA, but the porn ones are usually age-ambiguous, characters with developed sex characteristics, and characters without developed sex characteristics.

I was going to reply to some more but this thread exploded too much overnight and it's all the same stuff rehashed. So let's just say I read it all instead. lol

Goodbye Global version. Welcome Japanese version.

I don't want unnecessary censorship on my videogames.

Capture.JPG

@ApollosAmour Wikipedia doesn't have every piece of information. The statement that loli is always used in a sexual connotation is false as plenty of people here have seen it used in non-sexual connotations. Furthermore, this detail is pure nitpicking; the point nor the validity of the anti-censorship side doesn't change just because we use certain terms if our meaning and intentions are the same.

@Nuebot said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

It's generally considered a classic work of literature and, I feel like it's a bit weird that I have to tell you this, the child molester who explicitly grooms a young girl with the intent to impregnate her so he can continue being a horrible person even after she grows up is very, clearly, not a good guy. He may be the focal character of the narrative but he's an absolute monster and you are in no way intended to sympathize with him. The book was somewhat revolutionary for the fact that it didn't shy away from the horror of what this man does or his internal narrative wherein he paints himself as a perfect gentleman and romanticizes a child, convincing himself that she was leading him on and such.

Which is why the book, its title Lolita inspired terminology like Lolita-complex stemming from the main character's sexual obsession with the titular character and why, generally speaking, phrases that descend from it like "Loli" are rather inherently coded and tied with the book and its content and characters.

"We use it differently" in reference to niche internet anime culture is not sufficient excuse or defense given that people are still using it to refer to characters who, specifically, look childish. Which is what this entire discussion, more or less, has been about. It's not using it differently at all, it is a coded dogwhistle to admit to the attraction and interest in a childish character without explicitly saying it, I broke it down a few pages ago and I'll do it again for you if you really need me to. Your comparison of the modern queer slur falls completely flat because a bundle of sticks literally has no relation to it being used as a slur against homosexual men. (There's a popular, though ultimately unsubstantiated, urban legend about this we can get into if you want - but the truth more likely than not has far more to do with the far, far more frequent usage of femininity as a masculine insult given that the original context of the word generally is used to refer to older women who gathered bundles of sticks.)

Even Lolita fashion does share some ties to the book, though they're very loose and tenuous as aside from the name and the occasional cultural overlap between street fashion culture and otaku culture there is relatively little to connect these three dots. Lolita fashion, by and far, is about an idealized portrayal of pure femininity almost like how the main character of the novel obsessed over the titular girl, but without the sexual depravity - taking much inspiration from western dress and fancifully expanded upon to create elaborate artwork display intended to celebrate and enrich the wearer's sense of self and whatnot.

Just wanted to say this is one of the best posts I've seen in these threads since it sums things up very well. As far as the fashion goes though, I'd say it's more "lolita" in the sense that it seems largely inspired by Edwardian children's fashion from the scope of bisque-type dolls that wear it. It's essentially a fashion trend based around looking like dolls of little girls. It's not a sexual thing, but it's constantly being mistaken as one because of the term itself. So if a fashion trend with very loose ties to the meaning can't catch a break, something so incredibly similar has no chance in hell lol

@OrderedRex51870 Gratz. That's probably the best course of action to take for those put off by it. I hope you have fun 🙂