Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?

@ApollosAmour said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

I believe that there's a multitude of reasons why someone would be attracted to loli or shota content

Yeah, of course, for example my reason is because lolis are cute, @SusyStars reason is because she want to make a character like her (she has dwarfism). You can find also people attracted with fictional characters and that's pretty common. So what's the point?

and the distinction between fantasy and reality factors largely into that.

If someone really can't notice the difference between fantasy and reality... well... That's another problem, and they are the very minority. So I doubt that a big corporation like SEGA sacrifice all the customers just to avoide some sick people. This can never happen in companies, and I know it because I work in a certain business sector. For the same reason videogames in general still exist.

Being honest myself though, I do find it questionable when it comes to light that someone is primarily into that content and it's littering their entire online presence.

That's only your point of view.

I can only compare it to my love for older masculine men, which is pretty strong (lol), so I can't help but draw that conclusion in cases such as that (although I have to say I've played games without them and was perfectly fine with it, but I digress).

What if in your favourite game with tons of muscle old man, suddenly they remove the fact that they cannot be old and muscle anymore? Only slender boys are allowed.

How do you feel now?

I may not personally like people like that, but it's not something that needs to be relevant. However because of how strong the emotions are regarding this topic and the constant denial that those preferences affect the desire to reverse the changes at all, the more important it is that people stop lying and just tell the truth.

But what do you care if they lie or tell the truth? The same I might think of you, I have no reason to believe that you don't get paid to comment here.

You can't judge people according to your suspicions. And this is indisputable.

@YagyuChan We passed Derailsville 10 pages ago lol

This post is deleted!

@Michelle Clearly it's not only my point of view, as others have pointed out the same concerns for weeks now, including some bleedover from the steam forums. People are disturbed by the prevalence of loli/shota content generated from players. I'm most likely in the minority for understanding there's some nuance to it, but even that understanding has its limit.

As I've said, I've played other online games where I was unable to make the kinds of characters I would typically choose. I've been places that were gender-locked to female characters and I was fine. I've been places that only allowed one body type and I was fine. Even with PSO2, there's no representation for me as a gay man and the plot pushes the romance with Matoi, but I'm perfectly fine. I don't need a game to represent me that way in order to adapt and have a good time.

Actually, you can judge people based on assumptions (as you do with me at the end of your post). When someone claims censorship is bad and that's why everything should be restored, but then their social media has NSFW loli artwork literally plastered all over it, there's reason to believe they're only in it for the fetish angle. And pairing that with the passion and outrage they exhibit over the change, it's an easy leap to assume it's a lifestyle for them. And that's what ultimately creeps everyone out.

You can believe whatever you want about me, but there's no evidence that anyone has offered to pay me to post things you disagree with. Meanwhile there has been evidence to suggest ulterior motives from many bothered by the changes, like I just mentioned.

Anyway, I've done my best to not personally accuse you of anything, but it seems like it's not a mutual thing and that we're getting nowhere fast. I think it's best that we just stop after this. Have a good one.

+1 from me for the removal of height restrictions which are not present in the original JP release of the game.

@ApollosAmour said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

When someone claims censorship is bad and that's why everything should be restored, but then their social media has NSFW loli artwork literally plastered all over it, there's reason to believe they're only in it for the fetish angle. And pairing that with the passion and outrage they exhibit over the change, it's an easy leap to assume it's a lifestyle for them. And that's what ultimately creeps everyone out.

+1

@Michelle said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

You can find also people attracted with fictional characters and that's pretty common. So what's the point?

Being attracted to underage characters while bein not a kid anymore, boy or girl, is NOT okay. Cute is a thing, like dressing your kid, the other way is nasty.

@Michelle said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@IAMCRAIG-0 Answer my question:

Why do you care so much this argument on this forum? Do you have any reason in particular?

Do you have any reason to care so much about the changes to the minimum player height?

See how pointless that argument is?

Also seeing that you openly admitted to wanting to make a loli character means you have no leg to stand on. Yes it isn't a real person, but it is still a depiction of a child you're getting sexually aroused to, which is not healthy and as I have brought up before, there are actual studies that show how such a fetish can grow into full blown pedophilic interests.

Someone I love very much was the victim of a pedophile. Their childhood was robbed and their life will never be normal. Every year they have to go to an appeal court to make sure the person remains behind bars.

Any kind of physical intimacy leaves them nauseous.

They suffer from PTSD and a cornucopia of mental illnesses.

So I guess I answered your question anyways. I have a bigger stake in this than any of the chucklefucks that are crying out 'censorship' here and if there's even a chance of keeping one person from ending up the same way as my loved one, then I will keep screaming and yelling at the scumbags on this shithole of a forum.

Now my question to you is: Will you stop normalizing child pornography and thus helping to end the cycle, or will you continue appropriating the word 'censorship' for your own selfish ends?

@IAMCRAIG-0 said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

Now my question to you is: Will you stop normalizing child pornography and thus helping to end the cycle, or will you continue appropriating the word 'censorship' for your own selfish ends?

What pornography? It's all hypothetical. Until it actually happens it's all maybes and what-about-isms. And even then, it's still not pornography. Except in the mind of someone with extreme puritanical views.

What we do have is a real modification to the game that makes it different to the original game. A modification that was never announced. That has never been explained. That has been pointed out to be nonsensical on the basis of the game rating, the ratings board themselves, the law and in comparisons to similar games with similar "problems".

Yet the only argument is "Some people may make things I don't like".

@IAMCRAIG-0 That is a false equivalency. Just because someone wants to play as a loli/shota type character does not make them a pedophile. If that was the case, then I must be a pedophile because I played as an Elin in Tera; the peolpe who played shai in BDO must also be pedophiles; anyone who plays lalafells, including Yoshi P, must be pedophiles; everyone who plays a loli/shota character in JP must also be a pedophile. However, all of those are false.

No one is normalizing child pornography. You are simply villainizing people by making the assumption that anyone who wants to remove the height limitation, even the ones who want to play a loli/shota-type character, are pedophiles. Not everyone who plays those characters do so for sexual stimulation, and playing as them does not lead someone into becoming a pedophile.

You say you have a bigger stake in this, but the basis of this revolves around the idea that the removal of height restrictions will lead to an increase in pedophiles in the world. I highly doubt this will ever be the case as this is the same argument as playing violent video games makes people violent, only worse as it is generalizing anyone who plays short and youthful looking characters.

I am going to keep fighting for the removal of censorship without normalizing child pornography, because they are not mutual.

@Archetype-Luna Im going to take a wild guess that Craig made an argument that's the equivalent of the argument that violent games cause violence, an argument that has been proven false time and time again. At least based on your response

@Anarchy-Marine said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@Archetype-Luna Im going to take a wild guess that Craig made an argument that's the equivalent of the argument that violent games cause violence, an argument that has been proven false time and time again. At least based on your response

no, that's not correct

@Archetype-Luna said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

@IAMCRAIG-0 That is a false equivalency. Just because someone wants to play as a loli/shota type character does not make them a pedophile. If that was the case, then I must be a pedophile because I played as an Elin in Tera; the peolpe who played shai in BDO must also be pedophiles; anyone who plays lalafells, including Yoshi P, must be pedophiles; everyone who plays a loli/shota character in JP must also be a pedophile. However, all of those are false.

all I'm gonna say is that I know a lot of regular, decent people who play Elins and Shai and Lalafells, but the ones who were adamant about any changes that made them less sexy or childlike were uniformly bad people

bringing Lalafells into this is a feint, too, because they're dumpy gnomes with deep, adult voices and non-human proportions

and yes, if you call your character a "loli" or a "shota" you either (1) want to screw them or (2) need to pick a term that is not so inexorably intertwined with actual, real-life pedophilia, because in Japanese they're not just cutesy terms for diminutive characters; "lolicon" is a sexual attraction to young girls and "shotacon" is a sexual attraction to young boys and no anime fan redefinitions can change that

Lalafells are dark, man, they're scary. There's nothing childlike about them. shudders

@jimpjorps said in Height Restrictions, Remove or Stay?:

all I'm gonna say is that I know a lot of regular, decent people who play Elins and Shai and Lalafells, but the ones who were adamant about any changes that made them less sexy or childlike were uniformly bad people

And how many people did you look at? What was your sample size? Don't forget that the uncensoring of Elins and Shai wasn't negatively received; rather there was plenty of support for uncensoring them and I doubt everyone who supported the uncensoring were sexual deviants. Not to mention, the height limitation is about being able to have the same range of character creation that JP has and not about sexualizing children.

bringing Lalafells into this is a feint, too, because they're dumpy gnomes with deep, adult voices and non-human proportions

They can have a range of voices; both high and low, dependent on the player. I have seen people portray them as child-like as well. FFXIV also have other races that are under PSO2's Global's minimum height; such as female au'ra.

and yes, if you call your character a "loli" or a "shota" you either (1) want to screw them or (2) need to pick a term that is not so inexorably intertwined with actual, real-life pedophilia, because in Japanese they're not just cutesy terms for diminutive characters; "lolicon" is a sexual attraction to young girls and "shotacon" is a sexual attraction to young boys and no anime fan redefinitions can change that

I say loli and shota because they are commonly understood terms that are quick to type. Just because I use them does not mean I want to screw them and I do not need to pick a different term. When I see those terms, the first thing I think of is nothing of a sexual nature. They are not necessary abbreviations for lolicon or shotacon either; the attraction aspect of those terms come from the con suffix and are used in other things like brocon or siscon.

The idea that anyone who wants to make such types of characters is nothing but generalizing and villainizing. Furthermore, there are more reasons to make such characters than to just make loli/shota characters.

@jimpjorps So Io as a character must be a big issue for you, seeing as you can literally have your character hit on her during story sub-sequences. And she's about 4ft 9in, which is about how tall I want to make my character, as I'm attempting to re-creat a character from Star Ocean. 4 ft 10in is 148cm, under the restricted limit. Then there are the players that have dwarfism, that want to play the game the same way they were able to in the JP servers. Short adults exist, and I know, because I have friends IRL in height ranges between 4ft 5in, and 5ft 5in. All are full grown adults, and should be able to make a character their height if they so choose to. Granted, one of my friends is upset with her height, and already made a tall character, but that's besides the point.

By your logic, we should suffer the censorship, for the creeps and weirdos. By that same logic we should get rid of everything problematic, or that could be misused in any game ever. Let's extend this to real life, because you can't draw the line between fiction and reality. Let's ban words, because they are subject to being misused as well. Guns, let's do the same, nobody gets guns. Hands, let's chop them off, because those can be used for horrid things as well.

That last part sounds ludicrous, I know, but your post can be held in the same light. You can't paint people in such broad strokes. It's the same things doctors do, and many times, the end result is patients get misdiagnosed, and that never ends well for anyone. You can't apply the wrongs of a few, to the standard of the many. Just because you ran into a few bad apples in your life, doesn't mean that you should believe that by extension anyone that doesn't want censorship, is by definition equal to being into the things you believe they are.