The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2

@Laep I am pretty sure the fact that people feel strongly about this is showing that they do care about the game and do enjoy having it in the west. I have also been a long time Phantasy Star fan, and I have spent a decent amount of time in PSO2 global. I have over a thousand hours clocked. I am vocal about these things because I care.

I could easily switch to the JP servers, whale a bit to quickly make meseta to buy the cosmetics I want, and enjoy the game on an objectively better server and completely put the Global servers behind me. It would mean leaving behind some friends, but my NA account would still exist. However, I care enough to stay and be vocal about the game.

It looks like @Laep wants to play the part of the paladin of justice

Haven't delved in these threads for awhile. Taking a sort of rest. But here I read the stuff and some of it its interesting at most.

Ok, some people are talking about being honest with what we want here, I'll share my honesty... again. I want both a mini gundam and a non sexualized shota. Yes, a shota. No matter how I sugar coat it, it's a young looking short guy. But my guy is actually old and wise, with a deep manly old man voice and a devilish impish smile. A trope I don't see often. That's my kind of roleplay character if I ever roleplayed. It's what I feel would represent me best. Call me a creep and a pedo all you want. I will not sexualize my character to amuse you anyway.

Which brings me to the next point. People wanting to create lolis and people wanting to create sexualized lolis. Similar things but not the same. I don't know if you know that not everyone out there shares the view of sexualizing everything or seeing that stuff everywhere, and if you do see sex in everything, PLEASE I urge you to go see a doctor. You are not well and your behavior may spill into real life, and you will end up in hospital with a vacuum cleaner's hose painfully attached to your groin.

So want more honesty? Here it is. I am against for and am disgusted by sexualization in this game and in other similar games where sexualization is not part of the main lore or gameplay. That's my opinion but I respect the opinion of others. Now, do I have adult games where that stuff is part of the central plot or theme or gameplay? Yes I do. Does that make me a charlatan and an hypocrite? I don't think so, because as I'm implying, everything has it's place. PSO2 is a game about cool mechas and space mages fighting dragons and god-like beings. But Sega already spilled sexuality into it. So who am I to argue anymore? That stuff sells. I can only stand on my discontent for it, knowing it won't go away. But censoring height to now prevent a "problem" some people one side of the world has? And leave the more offending content for it? Nope. I didn't like that either, and it's why I support removal of height restrictions.

Yes, connect the dots and a freak will make a short character to sexualize it. Yes, some will want to show the world what they did. But even without the current restrictions people are already doing JUST that. So whatever. Hell will burn us all or something anyway. Might as well do it with a bang rather than a whimper.

There, was that honest enough?

@ApollosAmour said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@Silvalance Fair enough. I'm just saying it's not private, so it's not really that creepy imo. More of an investigative thing.

I think it's pretty creepy when someone goes digging for information like loverslab etc without actually knowing if it's the actual person or coincidence.

@KYBELA said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

  • This is discrimination against those with dwarfism, proportional or otherwise. as well as petite or small human beings in general. who do exist and have rights just like anyone else to be treated fairly and not discriminated against, do to age, race or height, disability, etc. etc.

Hello!!! I'm the one with dwarfism here. Finally someone notice me. In fact I see a lot of discrimination from SEGA and the fandom. I'm really angry and sad at the same time.

But why are some people so problematic? It's not their fight, they don't care if the censorship is removed or not, yet they work hard to cancel our battle. But do they get paid to do this? If so, then let's all give up, big obscure organizations want to oppress us. 👨‍💼 👨‍💼 👨‍💼 👨‍💼 👨‍💼 👨‍💼 👨‍💼 👨‍💼

😨

Also I've seen more people get banned for being on the opposite end of this argument than not, which I can understand, but I don't see how that makes you guys oppressed. It seems a little backwards to me.

@SusyStars haha ...yeah its definitely quite sad when people go on 'holier than thou crusades' with no real argument other than some sort of self justified hatred or bigotry. i do a bit of advocating for human rights, as well as buyer/consumer protection advocacy as well.. but its never my intention to attempt 'speaking for' others, as i believe everyone who has a voice, should be permitted to stand up for themselves.

in your corner tho, so please do not feel discouraged from sharing your concerns!

& @Michelle thank you for your kind encouragement of my previous post. i try, but am not the best at brief explanations.. since i'm rather detail focused & try to be as accurate with words, as lexicon will allow.

i will say, that there unfortunately are agencies which hire / pay individuals (whom are often convicted criminals of serious crimes) to TROLL or harass others online, in order to promote or further said agencies goals.

see.. Monsanto, Antifa, Crisis Actors, Staged Crisis Marketing Actors, and others.

i do not like to accuse individuals, unless their script becomes blatantly obvious.. (as to be a script, which may be found with very attentive research) since i know enough about human nature, that some are just ignorant, or are perpetuating false information that they heard long ago & do not even realize they have assimilated someone else's beliefs as their own.

I can understand, the terrible feeling of powerlessness or oppression that could come from realizing the very real possibility that these encounters do exist & can/have likely happened right before our eyes, without our realizing it. or being difficult to prove.. or discern for certainty, what we are witnessing.

I sincerely hope that others 'with the will' to stand against tyranny and oppression, (& industry monopolization) will find their own inner strength, to peacefully stand against it on their own terms.

but IMO part of that involves being respectful of other's opinions & avoiding falling into the same trappings of those who may have wronged us/you/etc. in the past. its better not to make assumptions, or stereotype people.

there is a saying, that pairs well with the whole "be careful while staring into the abyss, as the abyss will stare back into you.." philosophical nugget of wisdom..

but its essentially that, 'when fighting the tyranny and corruption, or monsters of this world, we must be careful not to become that which we seek to see less of in the world.'

or to say in a positive, 'we must become the change, that we seek to see within the world'

hope it helps a bit. when in doubt, take some time to care for yourself. cheers tho!

@ApollosAmour says the guy posting Flame memes and spamming links, in contrast to actually trying to make valid points.

you are just wasting people's time here, as you are spamming and not contributing towards the conversation.

but i wouldnt be surprised if the '10 people' who flame these threads were actually just one or two angry individuals powertripping over their VPN & using alts to agree with themselves on the forums.

a moderator may have already noticed some fishy activity, amongst the blatant disregard for the rules. perhaps some of the bans are from this? but i can really only speculate as i'm still waiting to hear valid argument from the 'pro-censorship' side.

stating you wont read my post, is not an arguement either. its a conversational derailment tactic. but i guess its funny to you, deliberately wasting others time...

@KYBELA Flame memes? I've never heard of that before.

I've posted my arguments on the issue for a long time. Part of the reason this goes on so long is because the goal posts change or my points are glossed over. Which is completely fine, since I'm not entitled to anyone's time. But I like to think I've made fair points that do resonate with others. As for the song, I've posted it in a few threads. You really have to admit that with how long this has gone around in circles on repeat, you just have to laugh sometimes. I always find some way to get sucked back into it though, so it's not like I'm above any of it either.

I did say that. Listen, that was a veerrrry long post (which you've even admitted). I'm sorry if it offended you, but I really don't have the patience to draft up a response that's just as long reiterating the same points I've been making for the past couple of weeks. It's just how it is. Other people resonated with it and you got some responses from people that disagreed. That's good enough, I think.

@ApollosAmour well i guess ill just say, i wish people were a bit more respectful to have differences in opinions.

i was in the very old thread, altho i generally only come to the forums to post something specific, often a problem that just keeps repeatedly popping up or bothering me for weeks. so i can understand, that not everyone comes to the forums while having their 'best day ever' type of mood.

so i cant say i ever saw any of these many points you've mentioned. but admit i'd perhaps check for a reply a day later & if nothing, i just move on from the thread or these type of hot topics in particular. im a busy person & i wouldnt spend 30m typing up some big long explanation (of which i do sincerely try to create for clarity) if i wasnt trying my best to help, somehow, someway.

maybe someone else can explain things better/faster than myself.

i find people do it all the time actually. & im just glad someone said it.

i try to be diplomatic, and the most frustrating aspect is when one or both parties stop giving eachother the respect to hear one another out.

i dont have many 'beliefs' personally, but i do believe that if the people of the world talked things out more, and actually listened, and heard the other side out. there would be so much less crime, more insight into what is actually causing disruption in our various systems..

& im not speaking from an idealistic POV, its hard to stop the 'autopilot' in our brains when we get 'triggered' by someone simply disagreeing with us. as ive found to be common programming for the majority (not all) human brains.

corporations, to other entities which hold some form of (limited) power, use psychological warfare to influence the minds of the masses. if you need evidence just look at 'familiarity' and advertisement.. see mc donalds and coke, thriving, despite their price gouging and ever increasing bad business practices.. yet somehow people still buy cocacola and mc donalds even tho it makes them sicker than they got in the past 8+months under covid lockdown.

im just going to stop there, as you'll soon see what happens when the masses get sick of the delusion, &1 by 1, the corporations who've become over confident in its readiness to abuse power for a dollar, (at the expense of human life, expecting to always get away with it.) will finally crash & burn, with no hope of ever regaining a shred of its reputation back.

its good to keep on laughing tho.. but, sometimes it can be interpreted as inappropriate without offering additional context. (& even then..)

perhaps you'll make some good points that i'll get to read some time. no rush. i just see a lot of viable ideas of 'what the heck happened here' from the 'remove-censorship' side of the argument,

and not much more than name calling from the pro-censorship side of the argument.

i actually like playing the devils advocate, so i can always debate both sides of an issue. but alone i can only think of so much, its important to hear other perspectives.

particularly ones which do not excite our 'confirmation bias' so we can at least consider things which are not, slightly revised repeats of stuff we've heard a million times.

like the circle you mentioned. in the song. thats how life keeps staying dumb & not progressing. like an idea on the tip of your tung... but nobody will let anyone else speak. & the shouting match of gibberish ensues.

@KYBELA I've done my best to hear people out, but the argument changes so often that it gets exhausting. For me and others like me, it's always been as simple as: we understand why the cuts were made (likely due to the age of the characters and intent) and we're fine with them because they serve a purpose in that regard. But the counter-argument always changes to the point where it seems like they'll pull any thread to try to force the content to be restored.

Where the names come out is when the argument shifts so much that you can never really drive a point home or when someone is obviously biased in favor of the fetishistic angle of the argument and they try to lie, gaslight, or play the victim instead of just telling it like it is. I personally only recall losing my cool when I saw that people were bragging about filing a complaint with the FTC. It's to a point where it's blown so far out of proportion that it's just insane.

Now the threads mostly boil down to being an echo chamber (which is why I think any polls aren't going to warrant any good results) until someone comes in and comments on something said, then it explodes until they're banned and someone else deletes their own account and the thread's locked, then it starts over. I think if the people making the argument to restore the content weren't as opposed to criticism and fragile about things and actually were more honest, it wouldn't end up the way it does. As it stands, things are too aimless to get anywhere.

@ApollosAmour Part of the issue though is that there were people purposely trying to get the threads locked. That's why they were banned. I've even saw some posts insulting another person's country. There have been people on the pro-censorship side who have blatantly insulted and generalized people on the anti-censorship side. It's not that people aren't open to criticism, but the form the criticism is in.

The reason why there are many different points on the anti-censorship side is because there are many different reasons. There is also how the censorship is not just one instance but multiple instances. Some people may want to make their short characters, others fear how censorship snowballs, people may find the height restrictions discriminatory, etc. People can have different reasons for why they feel that the censorship is unnecessary. It also doesn't help that some people keep trying to play the legal card for why censorship is needed and try to cite US law to support their argument.

Also, I wouldn't say a poll is worthless. The polls can be a sign that perhaps they should look into the matter more and maybe try to set up a sort of in-game survey or the like to collect information.

@ApollosAmour said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@KYBELA I've done my best to hear people out, but the argument changes so often that it gets exhausting. For me and others like me, it's always been as simple as: we understand why the cuts were made (likely due to the age of the characters and intent) and we're fine with them because they serve a purpose in that regard.

i mean.. this thread is pretty clearly labeled to be about removing censorship, for height restrictions. specifically for 'short' characters.

half of my long winded statements are attempts to bring people BACK to the topic. or otherwise offer them a valid response so that we can get back to it.

i do not see how being short, has jack-shiz to do with 'likely due to the age of the characters & intent'

there are characters in PSO universe, specifically pso2, which are shorter than the restricted height limit of 150-155. none of which have i found to be referred to as a child in game..

altho there is time travel, so i guess its possible to be in there at some point.. but i dont even understand from a lore, OR ethical standpoint how that could seriously bring up an issue.

ARKs ops are soldiers. brainwashed killers even. if your issue is HONESTLY about age, when why are you not protesting sending children to fight in wars before they are even allowed the right to drink alcohol?

is it possible, that censoring the issue itself. JUST PERPETUATES these type of crimes all over the REAL world?

since nobody has the 'spherical swing cells' to REALLY BE HONEST about what's bothering them? (which was a paraphrase of, your stated opinion..)

i just cannot fathom why individuals, perhaps similar to yourself, would go through such effort to condemn materials of fiction. and encourage suppression of the subject entirely. all while real world crimes continue, and do so because nobody is speaking out against it.

i had asked others, 'where are these "arks children" within the game, or the lore?' & wtf are they doing there when the rest of the cannon has clearly suggested many times over, that children do not become ARKS until they are old enough to server in the war..

why does every 'pro-censor' person ignore it, when ive asked this question 10times or more?

why are some not upset with lore inconsistency? (if thats the case)

why is a digital war, fought by pixels, and perhaps mistranslated by a rushed JP-to-EN translation, somehow more offensive than REAL wars where REAL innocent women and children die?

why are you not upset that societies legalize brainwashing, and preying on their youth for taxes? or using them for cannon fodder as i mentioned like 4 times..

there are so many issues. boysranch/girlsranch programs that abuse children, large charities which have paid top dollar lawyers to keep their names out of the press for their abuses? while they happily rake in your money & murder your younger generations?

i just dont get, what are people ACTUALLY offended by? because they were given the impression the game has CP?????? cause it makes no sense to me. its OBVIOUS that is NOT in this game, & if you REALLY THOUGHT IT WAS... why the flubbbbliahblahioh are you even playing the game in the first place, if you have such an impression in your minds, without any evidence to support such an outlandish assertion??

im not even frustrated at you. i just like to get a straight answer, of WHY YOU ALL WANT CENSORSHIP SO BADLY, even after KNOWING... that it is only perpetuating real world crimes to cover it up or dismiss the discussion. can you name any actual real world historical situation, where censorship did humanity good? rather than perpetuate harm?

where it was NOT used for tyranny?

i'd love to see what makes 'pro censorship' argument side, so confident without them having offered a single shred of actual evidence or anything besides their opinions and speculations. (nothing wrong with opinions or speculations. but asserting them as facts can be harmful)

i hope you all have a great one tho. ill try to check back tomorrow, incase a reply to me.. otherwise i'll prob see y'all in like a month lol