The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2

@KYBELA said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@ApollosAmour you're argument is full of holes. you stereotype those you disagree with, and erroneously try to assert "looks like" or your opinions are fact or law, when they are contrary.

you block / mute everyone in a thread in which you come to flame, which should be considered spam & a violation of the server rules.

but i didnt come here to call you out, just see if any headway is actually being taken to remove the game's censorship

for the record. go to twitter everyone. the RMT bot issue was ignored right up until the point players learned that is the only way the dev's will actually consider your power of purchase, and power of 'word of mouth' marketing.

originally i was going to post in response to page3 or 4, which suggested that Sega is intentionally marketing to children, who's parents will not be responsible adults and withhold privileges of playing an 18+ M rated game.

Google themselves, as well YouTube, (& a few other service providers) recently got in deep expletive deleted (legal trouble) for knowingly collecting data from minors, regardless of any rating system put in place per content or information that the platform itself offers to the public.

if it were the case, that the game were theoretically rated M, and then censored, in order to encourage minors to play an 18+ game illegally, then Sega would be in more trouble .. when compared to if they had overtly marketed their product to be specifically for 18+ only.

This makes hyper violent and overly sexualized products which are directly marketed towards adults, a safer legal option in comparison to trying to hide or censor adult content & giving a false impression which may lead to children trying to trick their parents into playing a game of which they are not legally permitted to indulge in, without first gaining their parents "proper consent."

anyone might argue this leads to gray areas, but the flaw itself is putting the "informing their legal guardian for consent" if the argument itself says children themselves have no legal rights to form a consensual contractual agreements by law.

i said 'if' cause in America, even minors do have contractual rights. otherwise you'd have no minors EVER appearing in public media such as film or television, period. i know this as someone who's made appearances in media and commercials as a minor in the past.

Every woman in my extended family tree is below 150cm in height. not that the 155 fictional measurement within pso actually corresponds to a real world measurement. but rather has been suggested as an approximation. The notion where others keep suggesting that being short equals underage minor IS a form of discrimination and could be interpreted as hate speech or 'heightism' which is considered a felony crime within the USA federal court system.

The fact this game is Anime or stylistic in its graphical content, keeps getting danced around by the pro-censor people. who 2 seconds later will make arguements which would not even be valid if the art style or graphics were aiming for "realism"

See Agony Unrated. a game with no censorship, & is a fantasy setting (Hell) despite having more 'realistic' violence or graphical nudity compared to almost anything on the market.

How can Chibi style characters get censored in an anime game?? I do not understand how a handful of people can cast a label such as 'loli' out of ignorance and hate, & actually get taken seriously in the slightest.. by anyone. period.

  • This is discrimination against those with dwarfism, proportional or otherwise. as well as petite or small human beings in general. who do exist and have rights just like anyone else to be treated fairly and not discriminated against, do to age, race or height, disability, etc. etc.

  • This is (currently) a form of bad business practice, and false advertisement. both of which have sever monetary or legal penalties in both USA and international courts.

  • The 10 persons who repeatedly attempt to discourage private/semi public discussions here on the forums, to encourage others to 'just start a class action lawsuit' are very unlikely holding ANY real or true concern for SEGA/PSO's wellbeing or livelyhood. & am a bit surprised they are allowed to continue flaming / spamming threads on the official forums with responses such as this.

  • i want what is best for sega & pso, but if i am forced to take legal action in order to ensure the safety and protection of the buyer/consumer's rights. i will unfortunately take such actions, but have come here to discuss these matters with Sega's mods or team as i would greatly prefer not to be forced to do such.

as for Apollo, i say to you, that you are wrong. not everyone who wants a small character is looking to roleplay as a child, or is attracted to 'lolis'. other games have rules against roleplaying as a child doing "adult" things, and never had legal issues in the USA. even if said games like IMVU had content which specifically catered to (and encouraged) both sexual roleplay & ingame activities much more riske than a poledance emote, as well as encouraged ageplay, so long as the 2 were never intermixed on their game/service.

  • There is nothing wrong with being petite. or small. implying otherwise is technically called 'petite shaming' and is a form of body shaming, of which a person has 0 control over their inherited height or stature they were born with.

i could say, that those handful of individuals who objectify small humans & then project their self shame onto others by suggesting "they look like sexy children" is something wrong with their own minds. but it's very clear if you simply understand that their arguments are all built on a foundation of blind discrimination and hatred.

racism, and sexism are real issues in the world (albeit at times over inflated, to entice "us vs them" cult mindsets) but there are still other forms of discrimination that exist as well, which are not covered due to being unpopular or making less money from click bait articles. but simply ignoring these issues or censoring their discussion WILL NEVER make them suddenly go away. or solve any real world problems.

  • it's also rather disturbing that a stalker has been permitted to harass members on this forum/thread. or the fact of also allowing individuals like that to make slanderous & unfounded accusations against another member of the forum. despite their being rules which try to encourage healthy debates, while discouraging attacks on other members, already being put in place.

That's about it i guess.

by keeping censorship in place, or not removing it, sega risks...

  • False advertisement penalties
  • Coppa law violations
  • Discrimination lawsuits where as simply offering players the content as advertised, would mitigate or prevent those undesired consequences from occuring.
  • saving them from lost revenue & years of legal trouble

KYBELA's post should be pinned, this user is totally right.

@ApollosAmour Not sure how I am misguided. I mentioned US in particular due to that being what pro-censorship people have cited in the past, but I also mention other countries in regards to the other games that are available in their regions, and I mentioned how the files for the cutscene are in the game files, which constitutes as distributing the cutscene's contents.

@KYBELA PSO2's height measurement is in cm. If you try to import character appearance data that is outside the current limit, it will tell you that characters need a base height of 150 cm.

@Archetype-Luna I understand what you are saying. & while the NA has had a poor translation & comparing with when i played on JP 5+ years ago, it wasn't in the 'fan translation' as well as an (now old) interview i'd read which suggested it was NOT cm.. the point i was trying to actually make by mentioning it at all.

is that the game is not based on 'realism' or "100% accurate to real life human proportions"

&... that EVEN IF IT WAS... (trying to accurately portray CM units) creating assets such as 3D character meshes in game game/physics engines, does not constitute a real world equivalent.

Grid based games, for example. may rely on square or hexagon units to measure one asset in comparison towards another. & we could look at older 2d gaming products which one might think of their base unit of being "pixels" despite the fact developers likely used a system of 15 or 30 pixels (example) as their actual "units of measure" to create assets in an organized and predictable way so that their interactions/actions would be interpreted to make the most sense in a digital environment.

Sorry, to go on. as i get what you are asserting. & im not trying to argue on some old post from way back in PSO2's 2nd or 3rd year of being out. it can be "CM" but my point is that its not "really cm" but just a digital unit of measure that helps the game designers to scale things within the game engine, relative to other digital objects.

since cm, seems to be a common unit of measure in jp media & artwork, it doesnt surprise me that it would be a considered factor for creating an anime/fantasy style videogame. i just find it highly unlikely that these digital assets were built to the true to life CM scale if you loaded them into a CAD program & tried to 3d print them. (without scaling them manually to fit the difference) but who knows, i wouldnt want to suggest punishment towards a developer for dedicating that much effort into their 3d assets.

guess im just pointing out that its like a toy, or a doll. but in digital media. & i think it confuses the issue a bit here n there. to suggest a toy is 200cm tall, simply for the character's bio stating such, & artistic care taken to portray the illusion of accuracy.

@KYBELA You clearly know nothing about the COPPA Act, or how ESRB ratings come about. Being rated M doesn't mean anything about the level of censorship in a game. You also clearly don't know the difference between Chibi and Loli, and it's pretty obvious what you're trying to do by categorizing it all under chibi when multiple people in this thread blatantly said they want to make loli characters.

I've been a player of the Phantasy Star series my whole life, I do have real and true concern for PSOs wellbeing. The people here who constantly push this false advertising and discrimination narratives on the other hand do not, if they did care they'd be happy we ever got it in the west in the first place instead of being doomers and creeps dwelling on the minutiae of whats different. Having been involved with and gotten a payout from the Aaron Van Felet, et al. v. Trion Worlds, Inc class action lawsuit I'm inclined to encourage any legal action you feel is right, especially since I know for a fact you're going to lose if you try and that'd be really funny to see. 🙂

None of my accusations have been unfounded, I simply revealed peoples true intentions and their subsequent actions further proved the validity of it. 😉

@Laep Doesn't make you any less of a creeper.

And IF, and only IF, it was the case ANYHOW, you're just saying that "That one is doing that because he wants to sexualize a loli so everyone who wants to make a small character also wants to sexualize a loli", which any SANE adult would think that's bologna.

Oh btw, hope you like my art if you decide to do your creeper thing on my nickname.

@Frost-Soar I've made this point before and I'll say it again: if you want shorter characters for reasons totally unrelated to shota/loli, then do something about it. Stop defending the people that do or zip your lips when you see it. The more you guys do that, the more people are going to box you into the same category. You don't have any place to get defensive when it's brought up when you do nothing about it.

@ApollosAmour And you don't need to get aggresive against other people. I already did send my feedback both to this forum and support team, what else should I do? Open my own damn private server?!

@Frost-Soar It's not aggression, it's just the reality of the situation. If someone says "I like loli and I want loli characters" and you guys say nothing or defend them, what is everyone supposed to think? That you don't support that? Make it clear that you don't and reiterate that, or else you have no leg to stand on. Plain and simple.

@Frost-Soar said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@Laep Doesn't make you any less of a creeper.

And IF, and only IF, it was the case ANYHOW, you're just saying that "That one is doing that because he wants to sexualize a loli so everyone who wants to make a small character also wants to sexualize a loli", which any SANE adult would think that's bologna.

Oh btw, hope you like my art if you decide to do your creeper thing on my nickname.

I've only ever made that accusation at times where I felt it was right, I'm not lumping anyone else into the category. But you guys always sure like to defend the people that DO want to do those things, and whenever it's brought up that this is the stuff WHY Sega removed these scenes and added in these restrictions you all get defensive. I don't want to lump everyone into those "people" but ya'll sure like defending them.

I only bother searching peoples names into google when I've gotten certain vibes from the name or post, that's only been 3 times now and all 3 times they've turned up being sex weirdos that look at loli porn or 3d porn of sega characters.

People bring that stuff just because they fear what the future brings if that continues.

I'm still damn glad that they didn't censor Hitsugi getting fucking STABBED (with "pink" blood spray"). But if that continues, it might happen with a cutscene in the future, because people can't handle even blood anymore.

@Frost-Soar OK, now you're just deflecting. If it's that hard to police your own, then that's fine. But I'm just saying that if you're not going to, then you're going to get lumped in with them and if you're comfortable with that, then don't make such a big deal when it happens.

@Frost-Soar said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

People bring that stuff just because they fear what the future brings if that continues.

I'm still damn glad that they didn't censor Hitsugi getting fucking STABBED (with "pink" blood spray"). But if that continues, it might happen with a cutscene in the future, because people can't handle even blood anymore.

It was pink in the original too just FYI

@Laep I know about that, they did that to keep the Cero C (ESRB T)... as far as I know there was content who moved it to CERO D in the future and I'm afraid on how SEGA JP will treat that for the west.

@Laep see.. it makes no sense that you allege. if we cared about the game, we'd just shutup and keep quiet about the issues we have found with it.

kinda suggests you don't know much about game development, product testing, or the importance of feedback.

i didn't mention the ESRB, nor its inception.. otherwise i could have talked about how sega was bold enough to pioneer MortalKombat & were one of the first big companies to fight against censoring their products. which lead to a highly successful franchise/series of products.

i don't know everything about coppa, heck forgot it existed until YouTube and Google got sued and LOST less than a year ago for violating those laws, in a very near manner to the example which i gave above. All my content is labeled being for adults only, or is safe enough for there to not be a disclaimer in the first place. but i did have to do some research when Google tried to pass the legal responsibility onto its users, for its own breach in US & International data collection laws. not like you provided any real information to support your rebuttal.

It's nice that you like to brag about winning multiple class action lawsuits, all while demonizing others who simply disagree with the way things are currently, or are here to politely request legitimate answers for their very real concerns.

its hypocritical, and nothing justifies stalking or predatory actions.

blaming google for abusing their power of publishing information which should be private, is no excuse for taking your own actions to further abuse/exploit or take advantage of unethical and predatory practices.

it doesnt make it ethical or 'right'.

but again, another pro-censor takes to slandering persons credibility rather than debating the actual issues. to intentionally railroad constructive conversations.

you just lucky sega didn't hire me to moderate this forum, cause behavioral acts like that should not be tolerated. in my opinion..

please do not try to make this thread about personal attacks, when people are here to debate an issue that they themselves on some level take seriously.

i would also point out, that you admit to being the type who laughs at others misfortunes, and even encourages them to attempt actions which you believe to be futile or bring them harm.

i seriously hope your criticisms are not taken very seriously with such a destructive motivation being clearly broadcast from within your very own posts.

as for lolita, its a book, its a fashion style. originally anyway and to be accurate about the terminology. which is your argument that i am ignorant of the difference between 'loli' and 'chibi' which are both artstyles where characters have SD (super deformed features)

the same features common to american cartoons where characters have large heads, & tiny bodies.. that are not scaled to true life proportions. ever heard of a caricature??? if people state that they want to make a 'loli' character, that is their business, does not mean "all people" as my contention was against the stereotyping of everyone into one group. aka discrimination.

you do not even seem to understand the word itself, if your mind instantly jumps to the worst things imaginable, rather than a cute artstyle which has been found throughout not only jp but also american, canadian, french, and many other nations cartoon art styles, since the very inception of 2d animated features.

not to be rude, but too much propaganda. perhaps you should learn to think for yourself. or at least, since it's of course unethical to attempt forcing another human to think any way. including to 'think for yourself'. you might at least have the decency to not stifle the speech or opinions of others.

@Laep said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

I've been a player of the Phantasy Star series my whole life, I do have real and true concern for PSOs wellbeing. The people here who constantly push this false advertising and discrimination narratives on the other hand do not, if they did care they'd be happy we ever got it in the west in the first place instead of being doomers and creeps dwelling on the minutiae of whats different.

This argument makes no sense whatsoever. An equivalent would be to go to a burger joint and order a cheeseburger only to then receive a burger without any cheese and then be told that, if you truly care about the burger joint, you should be happy that you got a burger at all and that you shouldn't complain about it.