The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2

@MoldyAsp33874 said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

Well- only 4% of JP players had the smallest breast size- while the majority of female characters are actually in the 160cm range.

http://pso2.jp/players/event/4th_aor/report/player/ This is the middle of JP life. It's not as bad as people would want you to believe. I've seen gross exaggerations like "90% of players make lolis!"... When it doesn't even happen on my ship- even in the blocks people use just to be lewd. And in JP- it wasn't even close to that. You can make a short character that doesn't look young just as you can make a taller character look young. It's a powerful character creator to be sure and one of the main reasons the game makes money and people play it.. So restricting it is a bit insulting.

Nice find, and thanks for the summary! I also love the jab in Story 4 Side Story of how women tend to want larger breasts.

Just ask anyone who does plastic surgery, and they'll probably tell you the same thing.

So the "loli lewd" argument is dead as far as female players are concerned.

I also noticed how the male character creation increased, so that's another good mark for debunking the theory.

@MoldyAsp33874 said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

Well- only 4% of JP players had the smallest breast size- while the majority of female characters are actually in the 160cm range.

http://pso2.jp/players/event/4th_aor/report/player/ This is the middle of JP life. It's not as bad as people would want you to believe. I've seen gross exaggerations like "90% of players make lolis!"... When it doesn't even happen on my ship- even in the blocks people use just to be lewd. And in JP- it wasn't even close to that. You can make a short character that doesn't look young just as you can make a taller character look young. It's a powerful character creator to be sure and one of the main reasons the game makes money and people play it.. So restricting it is a bit insulting.

But these statistics are absolutely wonderful, and they seriously prove that having height restriction is absolutely ridiculous! Maybe @Archetype-Luna might be interested

Just to be pedantic ... I bumped into a taller girl today, whilst shopping, obviously severely younger than me, but she was taller, was I wrong to think she's cute? I'm bad at guessing ages, she might've been too young, but taller, I guess that's okay? /sarcasm

.... or are you going to have to accept there's more to age than height now? Or maybe girls in a fantasy setting aren't real girls? I mean there's got to be a reason other than height to believe that there's something wrong with that situation? Or are people going to have to accept there's more than height to a person's age? (she was still cute).

@MoldyAsp33874 said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

Well- only 4% of JP players had the smallest breast size- while the majority of female characters are actually in the 160cm range.

http://pso2.jp/players/event/4th_aor/report/player/ This is the middle of JP life. It's not as bad as people would want you to believe. I've seen gross exaggerations like "90% of players make lolis!"... When it doesn't even happen on my ship- even in the blocks people use just to be lewd. And in JP- it wasn't even close to that. You can make a short character that doesn't look young just as you can make a taller character look young. It's a powerful character creator to be sure and one of the main reasons the game makes money and people play it.. So restricting it is a bit insulting.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

The only problem there is that the data collected is from the JP client 4 years ago, so it doesn't really reflect what's happening here and now. It's something that can be easily twisted against your guys' cause into something like, "If JP wasn't even making the smallest girls on average, then the cap must not be affecting very many people at all".

@Meow2835 said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

Just to be pedantic ... I bumped into a taller girl today, whilst shopping, obviously severely younger than me, but she was taller, was I wrong to think she's cute? I'm bad at guessing ages, she might've been too young, but taller, I guess that's okay? /sarcasm

.... or are you going to have to accept there's more to age than height now? Or maybe girls in a fantasy setting aren't real girls? I mean there's got to be a reason other than height to believe that there's something wrong with that situation? Or are people going to have to accept there's more than height to a person's age? (she was still cute).

I don't think many people specifically link height to age, but it's a recurring tactic to try to discount people who are in favor of the changes regardless of what argument they use. So kudos to keeping that alive.

@ApollosAmour said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@MoldyAsp33874 said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

Well- only 4% of JP players had the smallest breast size- while the majority of female characters are actually in the 160cm range.

http://pso2.jp/players/event/4th_aor/report/player/ This is the middle of JP life. It's not as bad as people would want you to believe. I've seen gross exaggerations like "90% of players make lolis!"... When it doesn't even happen on my ship- even in the blocks people use just to be lewd. And in JP- it wasn't even close to that. You can make a short character that doesn't look young just as you can make a taller character look young. It's a powerful character creator to be sure and one of the main reasons the game makes money and people play it.. So restricting it is a bit insulting.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

The only problem there is that the data collected is from the JP client 4 years ago, so it doesn't really reflect what's happening here and now. It's something that can be easily twisted against your guys' cause into something like, "If JP wasn't even making the smallest girls on average, then the cap must not be affecting very many people at all".

Four years ago is still significant data, especially since PSO2 was still technically developing a fan base.

I couldn't help but notice a user's siggy complaining about how the Slave weapons were changed.

I gotta be honest, the more fantasy way to have fixed it would be to either do Salve or an anogram along the lines of SL-EVA 00.

Changing text in an fantasy environment to fit a "sensitive" audience makes less sense than claiming that D&D having races is "offensive."

@ApollosAmour said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@Meow2835 said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

Just to be pedantic ... I bumped into a taller girl today, whilst shopping, obviously severely younger than me, but she was taller, was I wrong to think she's cute? I'm bad at guessing ages, she might've been too young, but taller, I guess that's okay? /sarcasm

.... or are you going to have to accept there's more to age than height now? Or maybe girls in a fantasy setting aren't real girls? I mean there's got to be a reason other than height to believe that there's something wrong with that situation? Or are people going to have to accept there's more than height to a person's age? (she was still cute).

I don't think many people specifically link height to age, but it's a recurring tactic to try to discount people who are in favor of the changes regardless of what argument they use. So kudos to keeping that alive.

Dwarfism is a genetic short gene. Short height in my family can also be linked more commonly to females than males.

So yeah, age has absolutely nothing to do with height. (You can shrink in height at an older age as well.)

@MasterDarkwingz I find it interesting because it's a snapshot of what PSO2 was like at the time in Japan, but it doesn't offer much in the sense of what kinds of characters NA players make in the present. It's more food for thought than anything.

The primary concern with the height cap was that people who are into loli and shota would be making girls and boys to sexualize, since attempts at that were something people in favor of the change had already seen. But that quickly derailed into people making the argument that little girls can be older than they appear (the "she's actually 1,000 years old" trope) or that short adults or adults with dwarfism exist. I think it was mostly people grasping at straws and doing their best to deflect the argument. It still gets brought up as if that were ever the point being made.

@ApollosAmour said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@MasterDarkwingz I find it interesting because it's a snapshot of what PSO2 was like at the time in Japan, but it doesn't offer much in the sense of what kinds of characters NA players make in the present. It's more food for thought than anything.

The primary concern with the height cap was that people who are into loli and shota would be making girls and boys to sexualize, since attempts at that were something people in favor of the change had already seen. But that quickly derailed into people making the argument that little girls can be older than they appear (the "she's actually 1,000 years old" trope) or that short adults or adults with dwarfism exist. I think it was mostly people grasping at straws and doing their best to deflect the argument. It still gets brought up as if that were ever the point being made.

Regardless of the official silent treatment on the matter, SEGA has specifically been known to censor Yakuza games.

It's clearly obvious by everyone in the forum that SEGA driven censorship has been made.

(Either by Company or Publication. If it were publication, Japan would likely not agree under current animation revision backlash, so I hope that's not the case.)

Given the eight years of development it took to do what fans had already done, all users can do is speculate that it was to unfairly pander to a younger audience that simply cannot exist in a Mature rated game. There was never official confirmation that it was to "protect the lolis and shota."

Needless to say, USA law about fictional characters not being porn has been pointed out thousands of times.

The UK can't legally pursue anyone playing a NA video game with loli characters or bathing scenes, that's not how international or artistic medium laws work. Saying that it was censored for Global would never stand up in a court of law, much less this thread.

Until SEGA finally decides to speak out, there will always be more speculation, and more complaints.

@ApollosAmour said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@MoldyAsp33874 said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

Well- only 4% of JP players had the smallest breast size- while the majority of female characters are actually in the 160cm range.

http://pso2.jp/players/event/4th_aor/report/player/ This is the middle of JP life. It's not as bad as people would want you to believe. I've seen gross exaggerations like "90% of players make lolis!"... When it doesn't even happen on my ship- even in the blocks people use just to be lewd. And in JP- it wasn't even close to that. You can make a short character that doesn't look young just as you can make a taller character look young. It's a powerful character creator to be sure and one of the main reasons the game makes money and people play it.. So restricting it is a bit insulting.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

The only problem there is that the data collected is from the JP client 4 years ago, so it doesn't really reflect what's happening here and now. It's something that can be easily twisted against your guys' cause into something like, "If JP wasn't even making the smallest girls on average, then the cap must not be affecting very many people at all".

It's not effecting very many people at all- No one ever argued that it did(that I know of). The majority don't care- the majority don't even use min height characters- I don't even use min height characters. It wouldn't effect me. But on principle I think it's a very negative thing to have in an MMO and reverting it will alleviate future concerns and also make a lot of people happy- whether they use it or not. It's nice to know everyone has the freedom to do what JP was allowed. . I just don't like the idea that because I live in another country and the developers based in a different country perceive my country through it's loud controversies of some minority group- that it should mean I don't get to experience the full game- meant for entertainment first and foremost and a sort of escape from a hectic work schedule as a close second. And we've already seen the spiral- the censorship continues without acknowledgement and as new acts and content come out- new content will be cut. I think it's important to try and keep the versions as close as possible and satisfy the largest group- which is undoubtedly those that would like more content in the game they play. It's optional to use and view- if it's disturbing you have the option to skip the scene- or go somewhere else. But i've never seen a problem on my ship either in JP or NA. The lewd blocks do exist yes- but it's always been in the way of big breasts enjoying the physics of the emotes- not the content that some people seem so afraid of- of young looking characters.

And I challenge someone to show otherwise and find a lobby full of those types. You can find a JP report for every year of the 8 if you want more statistics and see if things changed early on- or late in JP life. but it mostly remained as such- majority female characters are on the taller side with bigger cup sizes. And I think the statistics of NA(it'd be nice to see them published the same way) would be even further in that direction. I've already posted what my ships lewd blocks look in primetime and I couldn't even find one of those characters that those who argue the censorship is needed are talking about. Given how offensive some of the pro-censorship types are... I wouldn't be surprised if some or all of them lied about viewing rampant blocks full of lolis and shota characters- if they even truly know the meaning of the words. I've seen clueless verified twitter people fighting against the same type of material but using examples of anime characters with massive breasts in the 25-35 age range. Just because of the style. Patreon recently banned an entire art style in their latest ToS(no eastern art style)- so there's definitely people who just hate the culture of japan and their art.

@MasterDarkwingz I don't think they're prioritizing changes outside of their target audience. US law is another common talking point, but NA is comprised of 3 different countries. It's easier to pick up US law and say that it's totally legal (when it's more of a gray area) and ignore Canada (which is a lot more strict about it) or Mexico. Now that it's opened up to Global too, there's many other countries to consider.

But you're absolutely right, that none of us really know why it's there. All we can do is speculate.

@MoldyAsp33874 Fair enough. I still think things are fine since there haven't been any major changes, just efforts to localize the game which are fairly common. I don't think anyone asked for the height cap, so it's not something we can blame on any group either. The only things I'm aware of that have been asked for and granted are the "Slave" name change and the extension on SG Scratch tickets.

It's anecdotal. I've seen people in-game like that, some of which post in these threads. Other people I know have run into people like that too. I wouldn't say it's entire blocks, but it's something that you encounter much easier in certain blocks. You may not see it, which I believe, but that doesn't mean other's haven't. I don't blame you for thinking people are lying though, since a lot of people lie in these threads (and especially the polls).

@ApollosAmour said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@MasterDarkwingz I don't think they're prioritizing changes outside of their target audience. US law is another common talking point, but NA is comprised of 3 different countries. It's easier to pick up US law and say that it's totally legal (when it's more of a gray area) and ignore Canada (which is a lot more strict about it) or Mexico. Now that it's opened up to Global too, there's many other countries to consider.

But you're absolutely right, that none of us really know why it's there. All we can do is speculate.

On a technicality, a legal case would be brought the to the current translation branch of operations.

And isn't SEGA based in California in NA? Plus didn't Cali also try to pass a revision on the age of consent law?

So by that logic, an actual legal case against SEGA would absolutely be thrown out. Possibly burned, depending on the judge.

@MoldyAsp33874

I'd have to agree, none of the "lolis in my block" screenshots I have seen actually contained any female characters in lolita clothes, much less appearance.

And yes, lewd block/Symbol Art does exist. That's what the report button is for in the first place.

@ApollosAmour said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@MoldyAsp33874 Fair enough. I still think things are fine since there haven't been any major changes, just efforts to localize the game which are fairly common. I don't think anyone asked for the height cap, so it's not something we can blame on any group either. The only things I'm aware of that have been asked for and granted are the "Slave" name change and the extension on SG Scratch tickets.

It's anecdotal. I've seen people in-game like that, some of which post in these threads. Other people I know have run into people like that too. I wouldn't say it's entire blocks, but it's something that you encounter much easier in certain blocks. You may not see it, which I believe, but that doesn't mean other's haven't. I don't blame you for thinking people are lying though, since a lot of people lie in these threads (and especially the polls).

I don't remember seeing the Slave weapon requests, so it's probably in some section of the forums I didn't check, or was either a vocal minority.

@MasterDarkwingz It was a thread here. Someone way, way back asked to have the weapons changed for the obvious connotation "Slave" has in the Western world. With weapons like "Slave Shooter" and "Slave Chain", it's easy to understand why someone would take issue with it. It was a simple request that I think was overlooked, but easily rectified.

No one has to agree with the change, but I think it's one that we can all at least understand the reasoning behind.

Height restriction stays.

Its to prevent what is in my signature, which to any moral adult, is disgusting.

Say no to Lolis.

@Knight said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

Height restriction stays.

Its to prevent what is in my signature, which to any moral adult, is disgusting.

Say no to Lolis.

And yet there are moral adults in JP, who we likely would have seen a blog post commenting about the content by now.