The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2

It is more likely to do with the U.S. based company itself and internal beliefs. Rather than listening to the paying & playing customers, they're listening the faux outrage mobs.

Yeah, I agree that the height restrictions should be removed. I personally just want to play a younger character because I like mahou shoujo anime.

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Once again, please remove the height restrictions.

Also please take note of the kind of posts made by people who continue to argue against the sliders being reverted. Not respectful. Not considerate. Bursting with an energy of just wanting to see other people be upset and wanting to get meaningful discussion about the state of the game shut down, and please think to yourself: "are these really the kind of people that our game should be pandering to instead of those who are respectfully asking for the freedom to express themselves creatively in a video game"?

That's all. Hope you guys have a nice day. I'm nearing level cap after 60 hours logged in-game and would love to be able to support PSO2 financially if these restrictions were removed.

As much as I really don't want to open the floodgate to lolis dancing in innerwear on the ARKS ship and fully understand why the North American GMs would want to prevent people making child characters, I don't exactly get the legality argument.

Back in my Star Trek Online days you could find child characters in Orion clothes thanks to the game's custom species feature. These same people would engage in public-chat cybering and get no punishment whatsoever while the people reporting them got banned for harassment, even if there was literally no interaction other than a report being sent. Perfect World was able to get away with this thanks to safe-harbor provisions that protect online service providers from being charged with the crimes of their users as long as they merely look like they tried to stop it.

Sega doesn't have to block the creation of child-sized characters, just add a clause to the ToS that forbids ageplay and the use of revealing outfits on kids. GMs could be as lax or strict as they want with this rule as long as it's written.

@Archetype-Luna said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

If multiple threads are kept running, might give more weight to the issue.

That's called "spam", which is reportable.

@Ephemiel Spamming would be one person creating multiple threads about the same topic, much like how RainGnyu keeps asking for threads regarding censorship to be locked over in forum suggestions. In this case, all the anti-censorship threads are created by different people, as far as I'm aware.

@Ephemiel Only if the same person is creating multiple simultaneous threads. So this isn't spam. It also is not spam if a previous thread was closed due to posts becoming too heated.

Throwing my hat into the ring once more: please remove the height slider restriction. All I want is the game as it was originally designed and intended. Let me have my tiny murder machine.

And I agree that if a degenerate player actively engages in "child ERP", they should be reported and hopefully banned for it - if SEGA actually cares about this issue to the point of messing with the character creator, they should care enough to cart such people out.

Anyway, regarding the multi-thread issue. I'm not upset that the old thread of 76 pages was locked; I agree that it was just going in circles with all the flamebaiters. What I am upset about is that the 85+ posters there who were definitively for removing the height restrictions (compared to the less than 10 who definitively weren't) never got a straight answer for their diligence. New supporters were coming into the thread as late as Page 74 too, so it wasn't all a circlejerk. Multiple people posting multiple threads about the same problem isn't great, but it does demonstrate that the issue isn't isolated and needs more attention than SEGA is currently giving it (which until now has been none, which is most of the problem).

I am totally outraged by this censorship, I feel deeply offended.

I vote for the removal of the height restriction.

@Archetype-Luna said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

@Logan-Deathrage said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

First I don't agree with censorship, yet living in the Western World I understand that there are considerations that have to be done by Eastern Companies due to cultural diffirances and laws. You have Groups of people in America the will do all they can to censor others and force there brand of morality and the "Greater Good"on people and companies if not out right bully and getting people fired because they don't agree with them or there ideologies. If Sega has to be proactive and censor things to be safe then I don't blame them in the least especially in this day and age.

The purpose of this thread is more trying to give feedback that they can remove the censorship. Yeah sure there are people who try to censor and force their morality, but they are largely unsuccessful. Sega doesn't have to do any of these things and the feedback here is trying to tell them that it is safe for them to not do any sort of censorship.

this^

all-in-all, i am willing to give SEGA the benefit of the doubt on this one. it isn't uncommon for east, or far-east, companies to be unfamiliar with certain western laws and practices.

they will either...

A.) have a company policy that dis-allows them from releasing games in other regions unless adhering to things like ESRB and PEGI ratings systems. and therefore MUST censor. ( i don't believe anything in this game would need to be censored as per any rating system. the game could still have released without any repercussions. worst-case scenario, the game gets slapped with an M rating. which it already has. )

or

B.) release to a platform/store that doesn't require such ratings to be in place. a platform/store such as STEAM.

or

C.) just censor anyway to be better off safe than sorry.

@AiC-L said in The censorship on being short should be removed. Round 2:

You know, now that I think about it, wasn't there something about Steam having a hair trigger ban for any suggestive themes in anime-themed games involving school settings whatsoever? That might actually explain the discrepancy between EP3 and EP4.

nah!!!

Criminal Girls Invite only quite literally has underage girls. well... that really depends on where you are coming from and what province/state you live in. in Japan, all the girls are legal age. ( at least, i believe so. the age is never actually stated, but even the smallest of them has some amount maturation of their body. ) in U.S.A., some of the girls are legal age in only some of the states. in the U.K., i believe all girls are of legal age.

however, the company that released the game has a policy to not release games in other regions without getting an applied rating from something like ESRB. which is understandable. it just simplifies everything, and the company doesn't have to be uncertain on what is, or isn't, acceptable/legal. there was no choice but to censor, despite releasing to STEAM. STEAM being a platform that require an ESRB rating.

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all-in-all, if SEGA was just being a bit wary about all of this... then these threads could go a long way to help dispel that worry. as far as i can tell, i haven't seen anything that actually needs to be censored/removed.

the bath scene can be re-added, and height limitations can be restored to the original state. that is, AS FAR AS I KNOW!

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P.S. something tells me SEGA will never recover these changes back to their original state. i personally can't understand why they would need to restrict the upper-limit on height. maybe to create a lesser discrepancy? meh.

Wow, there are a lot of threads about the censorship, I'm glad most want it removed. All my friends also hate the censorship in this game... PSO2 should not be censored in any way. I really hope they do something.

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SEGA is Pro-Censorship. They will continue to BE Pro-Censorship for our version because in our LAWS.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1466A

And because of these LAWS. What YOU all want, Prime Example HERE. From the JP Client uploaded by a JP Player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=TFGf9bGO2kg&feature=emb_logo

AND

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3zItijuLdA&feature=emb_rel_pause

Goes COMPLETELY against it. For anyone who Mods it in, and gets found out about it, taking vids or screenshots of it, will not only lead to a PERMANENT BAN on your account, but also will lead to

https://youtu.be/Pht-hwDtBxk

Now as to the business side of things on why SEGA will keep their Pro-Censorship stance, and thus why they will keep the height restrictions because if that ever goes, breast size restrictions will be next to be asked for by the minority. Yes, you are all who wants the censorship removed, the minority, is very simple.

Money.

"But but but, the game has a Mature Rating!" Yes Bob, the game does indeed have a Mature rating. Violence, death, bikinis! Oh my! But do you all know what kind of players Free to play games draw in the most?

Children.

Yes, children, the kind that some of you wants to create thus why the censorship is needed. Now before I continue that line of thought, I need to clear something else in the room since some of you are very, very mistaken.

Our PSO2, is not Global. I repeat, OUR PSO2 IS NOT GLOBAL. It was made for North America, thus why their is a Region Lock in place, thus forcing anyone who wants to play on it to make or change their Accounts to North America. That is also why in some countries who are super enforcing anti-lootbox laws that the game is BANNED from those countries. So in the end, the complaints, justifications, and ill logic from those OUTSIDE OF NORTH AMERICA, or are not at least, an American citizen, are null, void, and holds absolutely, zero merit. Because its not your laws, morales and culture being taken into account for the SMALL amount of censorship heh see what I did there? that we have, its ours, North America. Deal with it. It is not YOUR PSO2, you are pretty much GUESTS in OUR house. So please refrain from any references to your own countries about censorship. You will remain guests until the NA Version officially becomes a Global version and you no longer have to change your regional settings. Likely will happen when NGS/Episode7/lolPSO3 is released.

Now back to the previous topic. Ah yes the censorship and our culture. You see, spite the game being Rated M, most North America living parents, do not care if little Jimmy and Jil plays a violent game that depicts gore, violence and what not. Thats the sad truth of it. Heck most parents dont care if they see a full grown woman in a swimsuit bikini doing a dance. What they DO care about, is if they see what appears, TO THEM, is a girl Jimmys age, lets say 13, doing a Chair or Pole dance like in the EXACT example I showed above, sexualizing it, and now giving Jimmy some strange ideas about girls his age....thats when the game gets banned from Jimmy and Jills Xbox, and they put them back on Fortnite. Thus, their goes that sweet sweet Mommy and Daddy money used in Arks Cash Jimmy and Jill would use for Outfits.

You can cry out all you want "But theirs women in their 40s that look like that!" and some other b.s. To any responsible North American parents....heh and I use the word "Responsible" loosely....sad as that is, those characters will always appear to be young underaged children in their eyes. No ifs ands or buts about it.

SEGAs round table of Business Suit monkies knows this. Same for Microsoft. Its Business 101. The number of Jimmy and Jills FAR outweight the minority of you who are bothered they cant make their character just 5 inches shorter. Thus, the Censorship was put in.

That boys and girls is why the Censorship, is here to stay.

Deal with it.

@Guardian If we refer to the Supreme Court Case, Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, where it presented the question:

The Child Pornography Prevention Act of 1996 (CPPA), prohibits, inter alia, the shipment, distribution, receipt, reproduction, sale, or possession of any visual depiction that "appears to be[] of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct." 18 U.S.C. 2252A, 2256(8)(B) (Supp. V 1999). It also contains a similar prohibition concerning any visual depiction that is "advertised, promoted, presented, described, or distributed in such a manner that conveys the impression that the material is or contains a visual depiction of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct." 18 U.S.C. 2252A, 2256(8)(D) (Supp. V 1999). The question presented is whether those prohibitions violate the First Amendment to the Constitution.

In the Supreme Court's ruling, it stated:

The statute is aimed at hard core child pornography and does not apply to innocuous images of naked children. Nor does it reach drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings depicting youthful persons in sexually explicit poses.

As we have discussed, there are several ways to disseminate educational, medical, or artistic works concerning a child's sexuality without violating the CPPA: The Act does not cover drawings, cartoons, sculptures, and paintings that depict youthful-looking persons in sexual poses; it supplies an affirmative defense to persons who disseminate visual depictions involving adults who may appear to be children, provided that the depictions are not promoted or presented as child pornography, 18 U.S.C. 2252A(c) (Supp. V 1999); and the Act does not apply to visual materials in which sexually explicit conduct by children is understood to be taking place, as long as the sexually explicit conduct is not itself visually depicted.

PSO2 would fall under the umbrella of "drawings, cartoons, sculptures, or paintings," and PSO2 does not promote or present itself as child pornography. Thus the legal precedent set by Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition, would mean the CPPA would not apply to PSO2.

Now 18 U.S. Code § 1466A does state:

Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting

So it does include "drawing[s], cartoon[s], sculpture[s], or paintingp[s]," but it also requires that the person(s) in question knowingly produce, receive, or possess with intent to distribute child pornography. The key words being knowingly and intent, as Sega would not be considered to be persons who knowingly or possess intent to distribute child pornography if this were to somehow be brought up in a court of law. Simply by having a policy against such depictions they would have a defense against such accusations as that is how it works with Symbol Arts. So there are no legal issues regarding short characters.

In regards to the cutscenes, if you actually watch the removed cutscene, the camera does not show Al's hand when he accidentally grabs Kohri's chest. Furthermore, the cutscene is in the game's files; that's where the dubbed voice lines came from. If there was an actual legal issue with the cutscenes, then they wouldn't be in the game's files. Any thing within a game's files constitutes as part of the game's content as far as rating boards and legal entities are concerned; an example of this would be Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas and its infamous Hot Coffee Mod where the sex scenes were found within the game's files; thus the game was re-rated in rating boards across the world and banned in countries where said content is inappropriate. Simply by having the content within the game files, even if inaccessible during normal gameplay, constitutes as distributing said content as it is downloaded with the game.

So yeah, no, there is no legal issue with Sega uncensoring the game, especially when looking at US law.