Why is PvP so trash?

As a new player to PSO2 with the steam release I was excited to do some arena combat but it's like the actual definition of bad game design.

Here's some of the negative things I have encountered so far game wise.

  • Latency - It's overwhelmingly apparent that I have been killed by people who are at least two second ahead of me. It's like I'm fighting a telekinetic ultra-instinct Goku when I get hit behind a wall across the field by a sword photon art. I'm not even sure how it could even make sense from a technical standpoint even if it was explained to me because lag is a double-edged sword. It goes both ways, not just one. But for some reason I don't recall me ever getting to part the sea with my sword swings to annihilate the entire enemy team. I have only even been on the receiving end of this. It's also even more frustrating when the enemy has a ranged weapon.

  • Map Design - The design of the maps is both subjectively and objectively bad. Lanes and alternate routes don't provide any actual advantage to gaining map control over the rainbow stars in the center. And while controlling the center should be rewarding I don't think it should the be the sole determining factor ever single match to have won the match. You can completely ignore all other stars on the fields and still win by a landslide.

  • Weapons - Without a doubt indisputably unbalanced. A first example would be the poison shot with the assault rifle. The PP cost needs to be increased or it needs to be removed/replaced. It does not matter if a melee user is blocking because it hits through block, and it staggers allowing a follow up shot immediately afterwards if the attacker is close enough to account for bullet time. and because it's a rifle it has longer range than other ranged weaponry.

Due to the lag/latency issue causing tracking issues with locking on to targets Jet boots are the weakest option. They simply don't do enough damage to compete with other melee weapons in the area. Another melee user will simply just use whatever photon art they have and one-shot you before you can kill them with your art. These need a speed buff or something for hit-run tactics if the power gap is going to remain so big.

Of the three staff elements the dark element is the worst option. even though it can track a enemy it simply moved to slow towards the target to actually do anything to reward the risk of getting into range with it. The flame element can be used to control large lines and has one -potential while the lightning element is very powerful versus single targets and can easily be spammed with uncharged attacks for 2-3 second kills.

While I see a lot of people only using the photon art for the bow, the charged primary attack is extremely better. I'm the only one I have seen take advantage of this but any enemy unlucky enough to come remotely close you will get folded beyond perfection.

  • "Ranked" - Why is it only solo-queue, and why is my rank gain/loss based on if the team won or lost only. If I'm doing really good, but my team is flat butt-checks why should my rating go down because of them? The match end results seem to already award b-coins based on merits accomplished in the match. I could list a lot of games with thriving competitive communities that allow teams to queue up. the only redeeming factor about rank gain system as is, is that I only have to win 50% of my matches to advance because I only lose 5 points if I lose, but gain 20 if I win. Objectively speaking that does not even make sense because literally everyone wins 50% of their matches. Everyone will rank up and earn rewards because it's not a matter of if, but when.

Going back to weapons I also believe that being granted random weaponry serves no strategic experience to the game for it to be competitive. Just allow for players to select a loadout during the 30 second period prior to the matching starting just like you're able to pick your power up bonus.

When you die and respawn the first weapons spawns should heal you to maximum health instantly when you get a weapon that changes your total hitpoints. The ones down in the field should remain as is in function.

  • Cosmetics - I don't think suits should be allowed into the game mode such as a rappy suit. This does adjust the height of where you lock on to a player and can be somewhat abused. If a player is standing on a platform above another the shorter player on the highground is a lot harder to hit with ranged weaponry. Players with overly large accessories can cover their bodies to make it very difficult to tell what weapons that have, and to try and read animations to even attempt to block/dodge an attack. There was a player using the photon art with the sword to surf and you couldn't even tell.

There's a lot of things I could go on and on about, but I'm just going off the top of my head and don't really have a structure to this so it would just seem like a wild tangent more so than it already is. I don't want to just bash the game and call it trash without trying to provide some constructive criticism at least because that wouldn't be very productive if it ever was read by the right pair of eyes that is.

On the lag subject, its because the game accepts what the attacker sees. You may hit someone you could clearly see out in the open yourself, but on their screen they might've been behind a wall 20 days ago.

I posted this on another thread, but I'll post it here too.

Here's a breakdown about the weapons.

  • Sword: Normals and step attack can be chained and can kill someone if done correctly. Is commonly used to backdoor or to advance. Gets shut down easily by Rifle.

    • Rising Edge: Has the biggest vertical hitbox and the forward hitbox is also prettty big. The horizontal hitbox is really small however. Can kill even other sword/partisans in one hit.
    • Nova Strike: The same as Rising except it's around you. The vertical hitbox is tiny. Even just jumping (with no lag) will avoid the hit. Requires a JA to kill sword/partisan in one hit.
    • Ride Slash: A hold PA to have a constant hitbox out. Has a small vertical hitbox above it and can be avoided by jumping. Takes two hits to kill a player
  • Rifle: Normal attacks can be used pressure people to back away. Mostly used as suppression support. Is very vulnerable to sneak attacks. Always be behind someone unless you are fully aware of your surroundings.

    • Steady Shot: crazy suppression ability, and also finishes any stragglers that your teammates fails to kill. Will also kill if you land the entire thing with a JA.
    • Piercing Round: Causes Injury which effectively makes a person out of commission for a minute unless they use cure or use a ranged weapon. Piercing -> Piercing -> normal 3 is a true combo that also kills all non sword/partisans. 3x piercing or 2x piercing 2 normals for those.
    • Positron Blast: A 2 charge PA. You can move while charging. The hitbox increases as the charge stage goes up making it easier to hit players. 1st charge is enough to one shot anyone not a sword/partisan. The range is also huge.
  • Rod: Long range support. Has good map control ability. Will lose to anything in melee range.

    • Foie: Huge range, huge hitbox, and does over 200 damage (300 at lvl 3). TPS mode is better and gives you good control over an area.
    • Megid: A very slow Foie. It controls area even better because of that. It can also one shot non sword/partisan.
    • Zonde: A "hitscan" tech essentially. Is primarily used as an instant damage/support attack.
  • Bow: Normal attacks is a decent poke from a medium distance. Charge normals will one shot even sword/partisan at close range (all three hits). Always be charging normal attacks if you aren't using Final Nemesis. Step attack has a long hitstun.

    • Final Nemesis: Has infinite range, and kills everything regardless of what they are. Has a long startup.
  • Jet Boots: Has the ability to Double Jump. Is a melee weapon with Rod HP. Unbelievably squishy, and isn't good in the frontlines.

    • Strike Gust: Holding the PA down with extend the upwards kicks. The upwards kicks has almost no hitstun. Using the weapon action will instead do the slam and do huge damage. If the target isn't dead, they will instead be stunned. The slam is a small aoe around you and have ZERO vertical hitbox. A small jump is enough to avoid the slam.
    • Grand Wave: One of the two dashing PAs. Does not have super armor and cannot kill. However the weapon action gives you complete invincibility for until essentially the JA circle. Can be used to stall the enemy team (lag not in your favor will get you killed however). The beginning of the weapon action does decent damage.
  • Partisan: A more balanced Sword. normals has less range than sword normals and move you way too much. Air Normals can be chained.

    • Assault Buster: A worse version of Rising Edge. Has literally no vertical hitbox and even jumping will avoid it completely (assuming no lag). Moves the player with the attack.
  • TMG: Imagine Rifle, but being able to solo and hold it's own. Has stylish roll for stalling assuming you don't get hit due to lag.

    • Satellite Aim: Decent range and has good hitstun. Can be used as a suppression tool. Has the same kill combo as Piercing. SA -> SA -> N3.
  • Dual Blades: Normal hits leave something to wish for. Weapon action is an absurd poke that can kill if used properly; it also has a huge range.

    • Immortal Dove: Frontal attack PA that is faster when used in the air. Has slightly more frontal range than Nova Strike and can kill sword with a normal attack follow up. Normal attack follow up is a true combo.
  • Talis: An extremely potent map control weapon. Loses to everything in melee range the majority of the time.

    • Na Grants: a field deploy PA that puts down a damaging area to anyone who touches it. Kills in 2 hits. Will be placed anywhere your current thrown Talis is at. Is able to take complete control over any area.
  • Twin Daggers: Step attack chaining is faster than running. It can also mess up people's ability to follow your movements. Normal attacks have no range and is rather bad. Step attack chaining will also stun lock someone. Like the base game, you have parry frames at the beginning at every hit. Weapon action TD spin has i-frames.

    • Symphonic Driver: The second "dash" PA. Has full superarmor and moves you wildly making you almost impossible to hit without a ranged attack. Usually kills with two uses. Puts you in the air which means you tend to avoid many things.
  • Knuckles: The sole weapon able to 1v5 with the current map layouts. step attacking is the fastest way to travel and will also stun lock someone. Normal attack range is similar to TDs but have significantly more hitstun and actually does damage. They also have their weapon action "Sway" to give some i-frames.

    • Advancing Charge: A chargeable approach PA that has incredible hitstun. When used at full charge it stuns, goes 2.5 step distance, and deals decent damage.

In terms of each map:

  • Forest - Sword will rule if the enemy team isn't already covering the field with ranged hits. Sword is also very good for backdooring. Rifle keeps sword in check as long as the rifle is aware of their surroundings. Rod is able to prevent the enemy team from moving. Jet Boots is in a weird spot because sword exists.
  • Forest Night - Partisan isn't nearly as powerful as sword as the hitbox is much smaller, but it fills the same role. TMG is great for shutting down partisan, or rather, just jumping shuts it down easily. Talis allows of even more absurd map control than rod did. Bow allows you to backdoor safer than partisan as well as snipe any person who isn't in cover. Jet boots can only backdoor effectively here or take out any backdoor'ers.
  • Volcano - This place is a huge rock paper scissor battle. DB beats TMG, TMG beats Knux, and Knux beats DB. TD destroys knux and DBs as long as you aren't caught on the ground. Talis does the same thing here, take map control, but it is much less apparent because knux has the fastest approaching ability and DB can kill from afar.
  • Volcano Night - A very weird one. Sword just outrights denies DB due to the shear hp, superarmor, and hitstun. However that doesn't mean DB can't do anything as they still have more range than sword. Rifle does a similar thing to DB as well as to sword. Here DB is more of a ranged support, using their weapon action to pick off stragglers and to help their teammates. Rod serves the same purpose as in forest which is map control.
  • Tokyo - Is just a shitshow no matter how much you try to sweeten it. Sword is dumb because they can backdoor ANYWHERE. Rifle is dumb because it one shots everything from anywhere and out of nowhere. Talis is dumb because there are so many chokepoints. Bow is the meh one here but they can also kill anywhere because the coverings are very small (they are easy prey for rifle however). Bow can also do some dirty sneak attacks with a charged normal.

@Kowaldi welcome to swtors huttball mode with a pso reskin... Nobody liked huttball in swtor

Its not all that bad. I mean its not like you are going up against 1 Player Vs 1 Player. thats the kind of PVP i dont like.

@DDDDLife no its 3v1 stunlocking pvp meta enemies with antisocial teammates who never have your back pvp! Which I personally despise

Eh, it happens. but eventually you will get a good group. That's what makes it interesting, the maps are always different. So it more on the basis of how well you can play in a team.

This game wasn't made for pvp.

Game was definitely not though with PVP in mind. It was just added because the JP playerbase asked for it. And to be honest it's... half baked, but has some "features" that every other PVP game needs to add, like not being able to identify NOR communicate with the opposite team.

i'll reply to each of your paragraphs later if someone doesn't before me.

Why even have a PvP system that doesn't feature the rich combo system in PvE?

@Endu-L cause its just a mini game...itll take too much to get a whole team to work on this....rebalancing classes...rebalancing level gaps...its just too much work for a pve game...its just a fun addition for people who are being bored of the pve and want some side content while they are waiting for UQs and another way of earning SG...just imagine if we had a summoner class in pvp and a pet jumps on you out of nowhere destroying everyone and the whole pvp arena itself...making "simple weapons" that are "kind of balanced and each being useful in different maps" is easier than rebalancing the whole thing just for one mode...here you got some strategic talis placements...strategic use of "buffs" strategic use of melee weapons - strategic use of ranged weapons etc etc...its like playing chess easy to learn and easy game itself but hard to master...you got a couple minutes to figure out what your team lacks and the enemies got - wich weapons other guys prefer to use - and fill that gap to be successful...its a new experience with every game wich makes it kind of fun

This post is deleted!

@Kwars01 said in Why is PvP so trash?:

why even have a pvp where stunlocking is a thing?

if its not fun, why even bother? unless youre a narcissist piece of garbage who gets off on stunlocking.

this is why nobody takes pvp in mmos seriously

I dont think that you can just Generalize the entire Audience into saying -" Nobody", because somebody is playing PVP at this very moment.

@DDDDLife we all know that the main culture here is around farming SG.

and if you enjoy it, good for you. but the majority of players dont like it. 1 person does count as "nobody"