Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.

Players on the whole are definitely against the censorship. To say the majority approve of it is completely incorrect. Its not even assumption its just completely wrong. But as I said -players-... They still play the game and support it. Which is enough for Sega. But if Sega was truly pro-consumer they would revert the change even though it isnt causing a reasonable drop in sales but because it would alleviate future concerns the consumerbase has and show some modicum of support by acknowledging it. Players want more- not less.

He is saying the majority would find a scene like the one in this game distasteful.

This isn't just a sci-fi game. It's a anime-esk game filled with endless fan service from many different Japanese games and anime/manga. These scenes are absolutely nothing new to anyone who has either played the games or watched anime. Some of the most popular anime series have these types of scenes in them. Popularity of anime is surpassing US cartoons. This type of game is going to attract a majority of people who are into anime, Japanese games in general or fans of the PSO series. So it's not really a stretch to suggest that the majority wouldn't have an issue with the scene in question as they know what to expect from Japan.

Over the past decade there has been large push back against censorship in almost every Japanese/Korean game that has included it for the western release. We saw that censorship in the game Tera was in fact a huge negative for Bluehole. Sales from uncensored Elin outfits as well as maid outfits/school girl swimsuits saved their game from going under.

It's all pointless and at the end of the day pretty much nobody cares or takes issue with these things, so catering to a handful of people who would take issue is stupid. This is pretty much what every Asian company should learn when it comes to bringing their games to the West.

I'll be honest, I've always found those kinds of scenes distasteful, but what's stopping me; A reasonable adult from just pressing the skip button? We don't need to have our hands held with censorship in a rated M game.

Character height being restricted to prevent people from making kiddie characters is also dumb because character size influences your hurtbox in game. I do NOT like how they prioritized censorship over gameplay.

It's just common sense, if you think the scene isn't distasteful I implore you to walk down a busy street in your town and ask everyone you walk by "Do you think it's tasteful for a video game to depict a scene where adults are spying on children that are naked and groping each other in the shower?" Please record it too.

Just look at the international backlash against the new Netflix film Cuties, which also sexualizes children, the general populace doesn't approve of such things despite certain left-wing media groups constantly trying to push a pro-pedophilia agenda. If this was all "normal" there wouldn't be laws and previous cases against this type of stuff in many countries that are now included in the global release.

At the end of the day the localization team had to consider the cultural views and laws of all countries and all potential countries the game would release to, it's a no brainer that a scene like that would be cut.

@Flowen231 That's not a very good argument because it's not like we're playing with people who are under the minimum height, therefore nobody is at an inherent advantage and gameplay is unaffected. If you feel you're getting hit too much because your hitbox is a miniscule amount larger, then you have other issues and should learn to dodge properly.

@Laep And yet media content similar and ones that get even further are published in the west on a constant basis. All the anime and manga, games like Senran Kagura, and so on. Cancel Culture tried attacking animes like Shield Hero and Uzaki and they only got more popular for it. In no way is this pushing a pro-pedophilia agenda. I also covered the law argument in the opening post, I suggest you look at it. Games like Senran Kagura are also available in the countries PSO2 Global is in.

There are no legal issues with the game going uncensored, especially when the files for them are within the game's files. Legally, anything within the game's files is part of its content and the game's download would be distributing the content.

Also with the western popularity of anime and manga, where these types of scenes are commonplace, there shouldn't be any huge issue or worry of a public outcry.

@Laep said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

It's just common sense, if you think the scene isn't distasteful I implore you to walk down a busy street in your town and ask everyone you walk by "Do you think it's tasteful for a video game to depict a scene where adults are spying on children that are naked and groping each other in the shower?" Please record it too.

Just look at the international backlash against the new Netflix film Cuties, which also sexualizes children, the general populace doesn't approve of such things despite certain left-wing media groups constantly trying to push a pro-pedophilia agenda. If this was all "normal" there wouldn't be laws and previous cases against this type of stuff in many countries that are now included in the global release.

At the end of the day the localization team had to consider the cultural views and laws of all countries and all potential countries the game would release to, it's a no brainer that a scene like that would be cut.

@Flowen231 That's not a very good argument because it's not like we're playing with people who are under the minimum height, therefore nobody is at an inherent advantage and gameplay is unaffected. If you feel you're getting hit too much because your hitbox is a miniscule amount larger, then you have other issues and should learn to dodge properly.

We're not asking sheltered communities who have never held a controller or likely use a PC about whether it's tasteful or not. We're asking the playerbase- The people who consume the media- speak for the media. Not these other people... THATS WHERE THE PROBLEM COMES FROM IN THE FIRST PLACE... Imagine missing such an obvious and glaring point.

The players don't like the censorship. The vast majority are absolutely against it. Arguing this point is absurd- No one in their right minds could possibly believe the fans of a game would want less from said game to be comfortable with it... Sega should not listen to those communities who don't even know what PSO is- and make changes over them. They do not represent their consumerbase at all. Feel free to state your ideas and opinions but to believe for an instant that the majority of players(I.E- THE PEOPLE WHO PLAY THE GAME) want to keep the censorship is just going to have people laugh at you. Take a poll ingame- go to a full block(or run some groups and survey a few) and ask them if they would rather have less restrictions in their creator and the choice to view cut scenes in-game. See how many people you get in favor of the changes. Honestly. I've polled in-game, FB, twitter. 90%+ of actual players don't agree with the change. the majority of that remaining 10% say they're not bothered by it- not that they want to keep it. It's a void point.

Also comparing real life child exploitation to anime fanservice is hilarious of a point to even make. False equivalency much? It's not helping your case in the least. I'm sure if you're a big anime fan you would just love that movie from netflix(lol... this is a joke if you couldn't tell)

And the whole legality issue has been disproved dozens of times. I'm not sure why it keeps being used by the same people who sometimes even cite the law that proves them wrong and ignore all context and terminology trying to make a very clear CP law incriminate a massive part of eastern media- some of which is even shown on American TV. It's not a legal issue and is not even close to one. You see much worse in PG rated made-for-tv animated series.

@MoldyAsp33874 Where does this idea come from that people who support the localization don't play the game? The last I checked, several of the people posting in these threads for the changes to be reversed have admitted to not playing the Global version of the game. Wouldn't that invalidate their arguments?

Claiming there aren't legal issues isn't the same as proving there aren't legal issues. As I stated in a previous post, where I collected statistics and cases regarding the legality of shota/loli and other fictional depictions of children in sexual or lewd acts, there are countries included in the global release where such things are illegal (or a gray area and determined on a case-by-case basis) and even cases of people being arrested for possession of loli/shota content.

There's an recurring theme of intentional ignorance on the part of your people. You can continue to claim you've disproven any arguments or justifications for the localization, but at the end of the day most of things you all have said are invalid or nonsensical.

More than half the people on the "If I can't spy on naked children bathing and groping each other it's not a Phantasy Star game" side of the argument don't even play global in the first place and the likely hood of them remaining on global if the localization was removed is very low due to all their play time and built up accessories / fashion items they have on JP that they'd want to transfer over to NGS.

@MoldyAsp33874 said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

Sega should not listen to those communities who don't even know what PSO is- and make changes over them.

I think it's specifically really interesting you'd try to bring up a point about what PSO is and isn't. I've been with this franchise my whole life, from the classic games and all through the lifespan of PSO/PSU/PSZ/Portable1&2, and I can tell you that while the games have had some anime themes through their history they're certainly not about spying on mostly naked kids that are bathing and groping each other and talking about how they want to roll around in each others sweat. I'm glad you agree that Sega shouldn't listen to those who don't even know what PSO is in the first place 🙂

Again at the end of the day it was decided, and rightfully so, by the localization team that these things just aren't fit to be included in a global release. Luckily nothing of value was lost in the adding in a minimum height restriction and by removing the scenes, in fact I'd say a lot was gained by removing the scenes since they devalued the characters in the first place.

@ApollosAmour said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

@MoldyAsp33874 Where does this idea come from that people who support the localization don't play the game? The last I checked, several of the people posting in these threads for the changes to be reversed have admitted to not playing the Global version of the game. Wouldn't that invalidate their arguments?

Despite likely not playing Global BECAUSE of the changes- yeah you could say their arguments are invalidated. It wouldn't change the fact that the vast majority of players on Global still don't approve of the changes though so it's not a point either way. Those who support the changes are just loud- you can easily tell they're outnumbered- some have had to make 3, 4 or more accounts to keep their point going and they're still outnumbered.

@Laep said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

Claiming there aren't legal issues isn't the same as proving there aren't legal issues. As I stated in a previous post, where I collected statistics and cases regarding the legality of shota/loli and other fictional depictions of children in sexual or lewd acts, there are countries included in the global release where such things are illegal (or a gray area and determined on a case-by-case basis) and even cases of people being arrested for possession of loli/shota content.

There's an recurring theme of intentional ignorance on the part of your people. You can continue to claim you've disproven any arguments or justifications for the localization, but at the end of the day most of things you all have said are invalid or nonsensical.

More than half the people on the "If I can't spy on naked children bathing and groping each other it's not a Phantasy Star game" side of the argument don't even play global in the first place and the likely hood of them remaining on global if the localization was removed is very low due to all their play time and built up accessories / fashion items they have on JP that they'd want to transfer over to NGS.

@MoldyAsp33874 said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

Sega should not listen to those communities who don't even know what PSO is- and make changes over them.

I think it's specifically really interesting you'd try to bring up a point about what PSO is and isn't. I've been with this franchise my whole life, from the classic games and all through the lifespan of PSO/PSU/PSZ/Portable1&2, and I can tell you that while the games have had some anime themes through their history they're certainly not about spying on mostly naked kids that are bathing and groping each other and talking about how they want to roll around in each others sweat. I'm glad you agree that Sega shouldn't listen to those who don't even know what PSO is in the first place 🙂

Again at the end of the day it was decided, and rightfully so, by the localization team that these things just aren't fit to be included in a global release. Luckily nothing of value was lost in the adding in a minimum height restriction and by removing the scenes, in fact I'd say a lot was gained by removing the scenes since they devalued the characters in the first place.

Literally been proven dozens of times. Go ahead and cite the law that would be broken if characters could be a bit shorter or be shown with a bathtowel in a bath. And i'll tell you why the citations context doesn't include what is removed from Global. Haven't we done this before with you? Or was it the other few people who just gave up trying to press this incredibly moot point?. It is not a legal issue anywhere. The content cut didn't even push the game into a Cero D rating. You're just being completely ignorant here.

Name a country this would be a legal issue with. Find their legal law that you think makes that content illegal. I'll wait.

Are you intentionally incapable of reading what I wrote? You're changing the context completely.

Oh well- continue to be ignorant and misunderstand terminology- clearly that's the only reason why you think there would be a legal issue- you remind me of the delusional account from another discussion who spent 5 pages posting citations of a law about CP without realizing he's playing a 8 year old video game.

@MoldyAsp33874 Are you going by this forum? Or the polls that were tampered with? Because I honestly don't think the majority of players care one way or the other.

As I said earlier there's no need to rehash the argument on legality as multiple people have already brought up the truths which you ignore and claim are false. You can search through my post history and find the post where I went through every individual country in the global release and checked their laws regarding fictional sexual depictions of children, it's not worth my time to re-post previous research when it exists in my post history.

It's interesting you try to trivialize the scene to "being shown with a bath towel in a bath" when in reality it's a scene where two adults are spying on children that are groping each other in a bath, where one of the children also talked about how they wanted to roll around in the other ones sweat. Just as an example Kohri's behavior towards Al could even be considered a depiction of child sexual abuse, which would be blatantly illegal in the eye of Canadian law due to there already being cases in Canada that set a precedent for arrests and court ordered deletion of such depictions.

While Article 230 does in fact protect Sega from liability for user generated fictional child pornography (such as the pornographic loli symbol arts I've seen some regulars in this thread spam in lobbies and during concerts, and making sexualized child characters) it doesn't protect the generator of or the one who perpetuates said content in any of these countries where fictional depictions of child pornography are illegal. Despite Article 230 Sega still has an obligation to remove said content whether it was originally from them or user generated.

I don't really understand where the age of the game comes into it. As I've said I've played this franchise my whole life and having worked around people who do translate and localize stuff (specifically manga) and hearing their perspective on it I'm understanding of the considerations that are made when it comes to localization.

@Laep said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

As I said earlier there's no need to rehash the argument on legality as multiple people have already brought up the truths which you ignore and claim are false. You can search through my post history and find the post where I went through every individual country in the global release and checked their laws regarding fictional sexual depictions of children, it's not worth my time to re-post previous research when it exists in my post history.

It's interesting you try to trivialize the scene to "being shown with a bath towel in a bath" when in reality it's a scene where two adults are spying on children that are groping each other in a bath, where one of the children also talked about how they wanted to roll around in the other ones sweat. Just as an example Kohri's behavior towards Al could even be considered a depiction of child sexual abuse, which would be blatantly illegal in the eye of Canadian law due to there already being cases in Canada that set a precedent for arrests and court ordered deletion of such depictions.

While Article 230 does in fact protect Sega from liability for user generated fictional child pornography (such as the pornographic loli symbol arts I've seen some regulars in this thread spam in lobbies and during concerts, and making sexualized child characters) it doesn't protect the generator of or the one who perpetuates said content in any of these countries where fictional depictions of child pornography are illegal. Despite Article 230 Sega still has an obligation to remove said content whether it was originally from them or user generated.

I don't really understand where the age of the game comes into it. As I've said I've played this franchise my whole life and having worked around people who do translate and localize stuff (specifically manga) and hearing their perspective on it I'm understanding of the considerations that are made when it comes to localization.

Okay so you have no citations. Got it.
As expected.

@ApollosAmour I'm going by every poll- and players in game that i've talked to. 100s of individual- actual players. It's not even close. I know the majority of players don't care- IVE SAID THAT SO MANY TIMES that the players still play the game and support the game- so obviously they don't care to the point that it ruins the game for them. BUT THOSE SAME PEOPLE- would prefer-(as i've re-iterated countless times) that the censorship didn't exist.

The majority want it removed. The same majority still plays the game regardless. I, too- have 1000+ hours on the global version.

@MoldyAsp33874 Your choice if you want to continue feigning ignorance.

@MoldyAsp33874 How can they want it removed and not care at the same time?