Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.

In reference to Cyberpunk, it has a nudity toggle, which even tunes down some of the gore. Not much, but if you were going to find a nude, gutted corpse, they are covered with a sheet. I've watched videos with the nudity off and play with it on myself, so I've seen it personally. I've also seen no complaints about the toggle, while streamers and Youtubers like it because they can create content without worrying about having trouble with Twitch and YT.

I had no idea Cyberpunk had a toggle for the rest of the game. That’s kind of neat for streamers. I just remember when making your character you had a lot of options for genitals, including just an underwear option if you don’t care to have heart shaped pubes or whatever.

@Kodiakmax-101 Yes, but the toggle in no way affects the rating of the game. The game would have the same rating, toggle or no toggle. The toggle exists to make it possible for streamers to stream the game.

The point I am driving at when comparing PSO2 to Cyberpunk is to show how much more extreme Cyberpunk goes than PSO2 does while still having the same ESRB rating. To give an example of a game that was highly anticipated and made more headlines than PSO2 while having far more graphic content. If people are fine with that existing in a video game, then is there really any worry about the censored content in PSO2 being uncensored? Even when censored, Cyberpunk is still more graphic than PSO2.

@RainGnyu said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

That is my point! You come on here as tho you know and what you say is factual. People can be experts behind a computer screen and claim to have a self proclaimed credited degree all day long just to push their own agenda. Where is your proof that the logistics to implement the toggle censorship system is difficult for Sega to implement.

I have given lawful discussion about how games can influence behavior. How the rating system for gaming is vague and how some company have taken responsibility interpreting want is best for their gaming community beyond the greed for money.

Also if you don’t believe games don’t influence behavior then why do we have a 100+ pages on censorship in this thread alone?

This is what you linked: https://medium.com/@baemisaalbybae/sexual-innuendos-in-childrens-cartoons-in-depth-analysis-f0138333719f

It is a blog website. This is what the owner of the blog described themselves as: "Social Media Nerd who’s using her degree in Liberal Arts & Social Sciences to educate the rest of the population one article at a time."

It is far from hard scientific proof.

Here I can link a study as well: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4478390/

Here they focus on neurobiology, discuss about the failings of past research attempts on pedophilia. In the section when they discuss the development of pedophilia, they note how there have been flaws in past research on the topic. Furthermore, if you look at research on how media affects behavior, such as video game violence, you find that the studies have been shown to be rather inconclusive.

As for actual proof that a toggle can be difficult to implement. I have stated that a toggle that simply decides to load or not load a character based on their height is relatively simple and easy to implement. While something that is more involved with specific items is much more difficult.

Pseudo Code for basic height based toggle:

//You basically get the height of the character and store it in a vaiable
height = GetCharHeight(character);

//Then depending on whether if the height is above or under the minimum amount in the current version, it would load or not load a character. While this is an overall simplification, the logic behind is easy to visualize.
if height < 150 then
{
DoNotLoadCharacter(character)
}
else
{
LoadCharacter(character)
}

Now if we want to get more complicated with various items. Then you need to look at how items are coded. Based on the job postings from Sega where they are looking for programmers with experience in C++ and C# for NGS, it is safe to say that PSO2 uses those languages. Both are object orientated languages. Thus, it is likely that items are a type of object within the games codes with a variety of fields. A simplification written in pseudo code can be:

Class Item
{
//Variables
Name
Model
Textures
Item(name, model, textures)
{
//Constructor method
}
}

It then likely reads a database and parses the information in the database and uses a constructor method to generate the different items we see and own in game. Obviously there are more variables, but this is just a simplification written in pseudo-code.

Now to make the toggle more item specific, you then need to add an additional variable; likely a boolean variable to determine whether or not the item is affected by the toggle. Adjust the constructor method for the additional variable and the database for the additional variable, not to mention adjust how the game loads items as it now needs to read that additional variable and determine the course of action depending on whether the toggle is on and if the new boolean affects. And again, this is all just a simplification of the actual process; there is optimization, checking for bugs, make sure it functions properly on a variety of hardware, etc. There is a reason why games can take years to develop.

I'm pretty sure I've shown and explained that programming can be a very intensive process.

Also yes, I know I am horrible at explaining these things in layman terms.

@Archetype-Luna I was more addressing that the toggle receives few complaints and even some praise. Devs allowing customization of the experience is a good thing.

@Kodiakmax-101 The question is how far do people want the toggle to go. Cyberpunk's toggle is rather minimal and was likely within the specifications early on, making it easier to implement. A height based toggle is relatively easy to implement, but if we want to get more involved and focus on a combination of height and specific items, then it gets trickier.

Personally, if a toggle is to be implemented, I'd say the best way to do it would just be a height based toggle due to its relative simplicity. The question is though is how well the censorship for things not related to height limit be handled. Things like the removed cutscenes, censored cosmetics, etc.

Can we just stop linking unrelated articles to the discussion for Pete's sake? There's been numerous case studies, one released recently that went on as long as ten years, and in all of them, neither video, or audio media, including video games, had any real impact on behaviour. If videogames influenced the human brain, so too would music. And with all the songs about loving others that exist out there, you'd think that would be more commonplace, but guess what, nothing could be further from the truth. If you have to link said articles to win a debate, you aren't doing it right.

A debate is about swaying the third party, based on whom presents the better argument, and it's not about changing the mind of the opposing side. It's not about to happen anyway, so if that's anyone's goal here, you are wasting your time.

Edit: Yes, I realize that it flat out says these aren't debating points, and that an in game suggestion should only have the reasons why you are for or against, and nothing further past the point, but we past that point about fifty pages ago. A debate is what this became, and has allowed the nuance necessary to weed out trolling, and the disingenuous.

Toggle censorship system and everybody is happy!

I thought Archetype’s link was a good counterpoint. People have been blaming videogames for bad behavior for 30+ years. I know when I was still a tot there were already angry parents over videogames. All we have after 30+ years of blaming parenting failure on a game is inconclusive data. I think it’s time they find something else to point fingers at.

@Milk Well everyone places blame everywhere but the true origin point of said blame. Just look at politicians today, that bounce blame back and fourth, all the while, they get nothing done, and nothing changes for the better, if anything usually any change coming from people like that is for the worse. Same could be said of parents blaming everyone but themselves for how their kid turned out.

@RainGnyu However, we need to consider how it is implemented as well. For example, for censored outfits, how would we implement the toggle for those? The game would have to load different models based on the setting of the toggle. That would require re-writing the code that allows the game to load in the item models, which would require a lot more work and is much more complex and difficult to implement than a simple height based load or do not load toggle.

If a height based toggle was implemented, would the censorship on certain cosmetics be removed? What about the removed cutscenes? What about items like smart innerwear?

A simple height based toggle doesn't cover everything and a much more complex toggle has logistical issues.

@Archetype-Luna said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

@RainGnyu However, we need to consider how it is implemented as well. For example, for censored outfits, how would we implement the toggle for those? The game would have to load different models based on the setting of the toggle. That would require re-writing the code that allows the game to load in the item models, which would require a lot more work and is much more complex and difficult to implement than a simple height based load or do not load toggle.

If a height based toggle was implemented, would the censorship on certain cosmetics be removed? What about the removed cutscenes? What about items like smart innerwear?

A simple height based toggle doesn't cover everything and a much more complex toggle has logistical issues.

Why do you keep saying We! Sega is the only ones who decide what the toggle censorship system should do. You keep trying to control the out come of Sega implementation of the suggestion of the toggle censorship system.

@RainGnyu A poor attempt at a toggle would be almost worthless and anger players as much as the current censorship. By discussing implementation 'WE' can show SEGA what we would find appropriate and brainstorm methods for a toggle. PSO2 is SEGA's ip but it is 'OUR' game, too. We care about it and want PSO2 and NGS to succeed so we can enjoy the Phantasy Star universe as a community for another decade. That's why many of us watch and comment in the 'In-game Suggestions' topic, as well as why the category exists in the first place.

@Kodiakmax-101 said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

@RainGnyu A poor attempt at a toggle would be almost worthless and anger players as much as the current censorship. By discussing implementation 'WE' can show SEGA what we would find appropriate and brainstorm methods for a toggle. PSO2 is SEGA's ip but it is 'OUR' game, too. We care about it and want PSO2 and NGS to succeed so we can enjoy the Phantasy Star universe as a community for another decade. That's why many of us watch and comment in the 'In-game Suggestions' topic, as well as why the category exists in the first place.

Does your We include me?

@RainGnyu Well, you can help support the idea and not put it down. Getting a good toggle would be a perfect middle ground for each side of the argument.

@ZarexWolf said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

@RainGnyu Well, you can help support the idea and not put it down. Getting a good toggle would be a perfect middle ground for each side of the argument.

Of course I support the toggle censorship system just not Luna idea of it or anyone who agrees with any of Luna concept on censorship or how it implemented and how it functions when it come to Luna ideas of it.

Did I answer and cover it all?