Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.

@ApollosAmour I kind of understand why they cut the Kohri and Al scene also why they add clothes in some scene and I fine with it, even I try to be less revealing with my character.

But cutting the other bath scene is ridiculous when there are no sexual interaction happen, just chilling taking bath in public bath house. Also about some terms that was change too because it is offensive, it is so uncalled for. I still mad about Master to Handler stuff, it didn't even need change or at least use something more cooler.

Soon or later, even White Guardian title become Transparent Guardian because it sound like White Supremacy.

@Fighter-Fairy I think the second scene was just because of Al and the setting. EP4 was a lot for them to deal with in the age category. I'm kind of surprised more didn't land on the chopping block in that regard.

Anything's a possibility. I can't say that I know exactly what their game plan is, but it does seem like they've been making changes to avoid the current political climate ever since the Slave suggestion was made. Even though the game isn't getting very much media attention at all, I don't blame them for playing it safe anyway.

@Anarchy-Marine I checked again, Hariette's clothes are the same as the JP screens.

https://imgur.com/K4TB7lT

@ApollosAmour said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

Anything's a possibility. I can't say that I know exactly what their game plan is, but it does seem like they've been making changes to avoid the current political climate ever since the Slave suggestion was made. Even though the game isn't getting very much media attention at all, I don't blame them for playing it safe anyway.

This is why I am mad, the fact current political climate influencing their decision on this instead of thinking about players that play the game. It just English word with lot of meaning, yet they used current political climate as excuse.

We play game to escape and having fun without those irl political or any irl bs or any irl stupid ideology chained on our hand and collared on our neck. How come we can having fun anymore now that the game become one of those chain?

Why don't they spent their time on those flavor texts, bugs and bots in the game instead of changing something that no need? Did they even connected with community or even know the game lore? Those feedback probably ignored, lost in digital mail inbox after replied.

@ApollosAmour I was also being suspicious since we have the same file on both data folders, weird o_O (Yes I tried to datamine just to prove a point)

ESRB is wild because they'll do whatever they want to, for seemingly no reason at all. I see someone constantly saying "but this or that game didn't have censorship" but those games usually go under the radar depending on how much the companies bribed the rating systems to make M rated games Teen. Or not up the ratings at all. You have to also consider the team behind the games and their stances on what would make their business further grow with little backlash.

I think the bath scenes were cut on three occasions, none about the nudity on the first two but the concept behind it. Some nudity on the third one. This is just a theory, not a confirmation.

In the first bath scene, Al fondles both Kohri's and Hitsugi's breasts as a humor attempt(this is common in Japan, where "accidental" gropes are considered some sort of funny factor) The second one has the girls talk about breast sizes and what guys would like the most. The third case is probably Hagito being stark naked while the rest has a towel.

This is less because of morals and more of cultural clashes. JP endorses body skin and will proudly show them off regardless of their motives or lack of. US is largely conservatives when it comes to this and things considered negative context(even though the second bathscene, past the boobsize thing, does end on a wholesome note) PSO2 is not the first SEGA game to have censored bath scenes overseas nor will they be last.

I think these were the three main factors why it was cut. They simply do not add much to the story other than slice of life sub events. So either SEGA or ESRB probably did not want to add this in after receiving cultural feedback. There is also the subjects of playing safe and not wanting to take a risk of being sued over the laws OP described(but this would be a moral and a legal choice)

That said, there's been a lot of pedophile accusations thrown around and it has really damaged people. You are not a bad person for wanting censorship gone. You are not a bad person for wanting to create child-like or petite characters. People who are arguing solely so that they can play with the preferred height are only debating for what they like and believe, just like how pro-censorship fights for what they believe in. I think we can all learn and grow from each other.

But the reason I bring this topic at the end is not another accusation or tell you to stop playing if you don't like this. Rather, I want you to understand something that is relatable to the topic of morality. Pedophiles, and I mean actual ones in real life, do a lot of things to derail and hide around law loopholes. They will hide in anything, and fictional is no exception. There used to be a small loophole within the law where you can draw explicit images(I am talking about actual children drawings in disguise, not lolicons/petites or something akin to Japanese culture. I want to preface that these are two very different things) and create Roleplays into real life scenarios via anime communities and not get charged for it because of the fictionist laws. This is why people are being arrested over questionable "anime" drawings recently. Because it no longer becomes just a drawing or just being fictional when they are trying to turn the system in their favor. It's the same argument to say that Cuties, an very obvious bait for these people, are simply fictions media because it staged as a movie when there's obviously children being exploited. Cuties however, is not related, and is off-topic to this thread so I won't go further into that.

But that's mostly why accusations are being thrown around, and why game companies, particularly SEGA, Nintendo, any form of big game companies in the west branch take caution as to not damage their reputation as it'd decrease their income. They have to play it safe. The argument "it's just fictional" is kind of moot in this day or age. That said, I'd like it if people for censorship could also not throw the word so easily around. Even if it's questionable, you simply cannot know over an internet thread. And you're not making your points any better.

Apologies for the long rant. And for bad Engrish. *Fixed some typos and did some structuring

Setting aside the simple fact that the characters in question are stated in-game to be below the age of consent, thus taking artistic ambiguity out of the legal argument...

The story is actually better without the bathhouse scenes. They are little more than mindless fan service, and contribute nothing to the plot overall, so leaving them as an off-screen gag ends up being more interesting. I actually found it hilarious to imagine Xiera panicking and killing the feed as soon as she realizes what she's seeing, then scrambling to delete and/or encrypt whatever's left, leading to that one interaction with Casra later.

Depicting Hitsugi in her school uniform during her in-mind sequences also does a fine job of bringing us back to the beginning. And it's not HER beginning we're concerned with, it's OUR introduction to the character that we're reflecting on. So putting her in the same outfit in which she was introduced to us does at least as much as showing her naked would have, with the added benefit that nobody will be fumbling to explain themselves to the ESRB.

@mountainlynx-0 said in Can we not cut out anymore story scenes and stop it with censorship in general.:

Setting aside the simple fact that the characters in question are stated in-game to be below the age of consent, thus taking artistic ambiguity out of the legal argument...

The story is actually better without the bathhouse scenes. They are little more than mindless fan service, and contribute nothing to the plot overall, so leaving them as an off-screen gag ends up being more interesting. I actually found it hilarious to imagine Xiera panicking and killing the feed as soon as she realizes what she's seeing, then scrambling to delete and/or encrypt whatever's left, leading to that one interaction with Casra later.

Depicting Hitsugi in her school uniform during her in-mind sequences also does a fine job of bringing us back to the beginning. And it's not HER beginning we're concerned with, it's OUR introduction to the character that we're reflecting on. So putting her in the same outfit in which she was introduced to us does at least as much as showing her naked would have, with the added benefit that nobody will be fumbling to explain themselves to the ESRB.

Depends on the country in question.

Hitsugi is 16, Kohri is 16.

https://www.bumped.org/psublog/character-file-kohri/

Age of consent in finland is 16.

Sooo yeah...

Also the scenes are basic TEENAGE TROPES.

Dunno why adults are getting so ticked off at something they probably dreamed off or did as a teenage or did not find problematic as a teenager.

I already believe this game will be censored for it's life, and we will be getting only more censoring down the road.... Or as the guy who has me blocked said, "localization". I just hope Sega keeps the JP version reachable by the people who want the game but not the censoring. On the other hand, it should remain well known and well documented that a censor was added and a group of people, regardless of how meaningful they may be to the grand scheme of things, opposed it, even when mercilessly attacked with utter violence of words.

Depends on the country in question.

Hitsugi is 16, Kohri is 16.

https://www.bumped.org/psublog/character-file-kohri/

Age of consent in finland is 16.

Age of consent in the the vast majority of North America is 18, and it's SoA that's handling this release, so they're playing by US rules. Or more accurately, they're playing by the most strict rule set among the release area in order to avoid possible legal conflicts. Remember, it's not you that gets sued if someone bitches about underage nudity, it's them. 100% CYOA on their part.

What does age of consent have to do with fictional characters?

The law already has precedent that if the imagery isn't that of a sexual nature, or the characters involved or obvious not human, then it is not something that falls under the child-protection laws.

Can these characters definitely be confused to be human? Were they involved in a sexual scene? Or are people projecting their own sexual desires onto the scene?

And again, I'll direct attention to my earlier post: The story was better served without those scenes anyway, as they were little more than boob jokes, and contributed nothing to the actual narrative. It was more interesting overall to leave viewers with the -idea- of Xiera accidentally catching them in the bath, then using it as a throwaway/callback gag, and that going into detail over it actually drags things down in an episode that's already dragging for the first chapter or two, and does an awkward job of cleaning up its loose ends after the conclusion. From a storytelling perspective, those bath scenes belong on the cutting room floor even before the censorship issues are taken into consideration.

So if your stance is the story is better without those scenes- why not let the players(you know- the ones who actually play the game) decide that for themselves?... Every single cutscene in the game is skippable- yet this ones in Ep4 are not- they gave you no choice to skip them because they're not there. Let the players decide if the scenes add something to the story FOR THEMSELVES- that way, people who don't want to view it won't have to. And people who rather watch it- can. Win/win situation for Sega.

Senran kagura shows much more skin- has underaged characters, and some of their games are rated T- If you can showcase nude underage characters laying in giant icecream sundaes and have a minigame where you can grope them and spray their shirts with a watering house in a T rated game- then I don't see the problem with 8 yr old pixels- towels covering up much much more than anything in senran- and dialogue being much much less suggestive than Senran- which actually focuses on the sexual characteristics of the characters in question- in an M rated game. There's just no reason that the players can't make the decision themselves of which content they should be allowed to view. Write a disclaimer saying- this scene features skin, be offended at your own discretion: View? y/n.. I mean- you probably just ran by a few players poledancing or wearing thongs in your last UQ- but maybe this cutscene is just too much for your brain to handle.

Also are we going to get Wet Bath Towel Fs? Or because they're only involved in cut scenes- do we miss out on that cosmetic as it would give even less reason and more hypocrisy to why they were cut if the outfits they used were readily available ingame?(and no I don't mean the normal bath towel that got released pre-PC)

There are T rated games with minors bathing and only wearing towels.

From the software engineering code of ethics

Principle 1: PUBLIC

Software engineers shall act consistently with the public interest. In particular, software engineers shall, as appropriate:

1.01. Accept full responsibility for their own work.

1.02. Moderate the interests of the software engineer, the employer, the client and the users with the public good.

1.03. Approve software only if they have a well-founded belief that it is safe, meets specifications, passes appropriate tests, and does not diminish quality of life, diminish privacy or harm the environment. The ultimate effect of the work should be to the public good.

1.04. Disclose to appropriate persons or authorities any actual or potential danger to the user, the public, or the environment, that they reasonably believe to be associated with software or related documents.

1.05. Cooperate in efforts to address matters of grave public concern caused by software, its installation, maintenance, support or documentation.

1.06. Be fair and avoid deception in all statements, particularly public ones, concerning software or related documents, methods and tools.

1.07. Consider issues of physical disabilities, allocation of resources, economic disadvantage and other factors that can diminish access to the benefits of software.

1.08. Be encouraged to volunteer professional skills to good causes and contribute to public education concerning the discipline.

Sega is not following 1.05 or 1.06 as they are not addressing the public at all and they deceived people by stating that there would be "all the content." Based on this Sega is being unethical with the censorship and since games are software it would fall under this code of ethics.