Episode 4 story is disgusting

who else in here has no clue what everyone is talking about and just hard skips story related stuff like me? i dont even have to know what ya'll about to be sure that those who call stuff "disgusting" are actually those who pole dance or run around half naked in lobby on their loli like characters or spam pm every girl named and girl looking character for erp

@Ephemiel said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Surprising no one, it's the same people complaining and agreeing with each other and then being insane enough to think everyone disagreeing with them are in the minority.

You guys need help.

Holy shit, do you not have any self-awareness at all?

...I really gotta start playing E4...this thread has peaked my cultural curiosity.

@Duero People have the right to express how they feel about something. Regardless if itll get changed or not. Telling people "if you dont like it leave" shows your midset isnt about making something better or improving it. That mindset alines with those who just want to consume consume consume without a second thought. Also..."says not to turn the forums into Twitter 2...calls someone a Karen for having a different view you dont aline with". Id say youre doing more to make this look like Twitter than the OP is

@Wolf-Moonstar Haven't even started it myself. I generally play games more for their story than anything else (which is why Destiny was such a massive letdown since Bungie forgot how to tell stories outside of Grimoire/Lore Tabs) but PSO2 has enough grind and random events (like this summer beach party thing) that keep me busy enough that the story tends to have to wait. Probably one of the only story-focused players who only just completed episode 3 a couple weeks ago despite having started in the open beta shortly before the official release.

The more people talk about how "controversial" something is, the more I want to check it out for myself. Mainly because in this day and age in which literally all a person has to do to be called every hateful, vile, awful thing in the book is stand still and smile, refusing to answer aggression with more aggression while someone 3-4 times their age screams in their face backed by a mob of self-important hypocrites screaming "go back to your own country, you're not welcome here." I mean, if someone can be called a "racist" for just standing there smiling in the face of an angry mob of actual racists, I wonder what qualifies as "disgusting" in a game that so far has a protagonist of literally ANY AGE (all in the mind of the player) being fawned after and drooled over by nearly every female NPC in the story who isn't a brainwashed psychotic embodiment of evil, most of whom are minors here in the US (although even that isn't universally true anymore, since over the past decade 8 states have changed it from 18 to 17 and a whopping 31 have dropped it to 16, and all 50 have groups pushing for it to go even lower which is quite unsettling to think about).

But, point is, the story is already all sorts of "f-ed in the head" if you really stop to think about it, so why are people so shocked that the next "chapter" is also bizarre and thumbs its nose at convention? Friend of mine and I have a simple "trope" of sorts when it comes to inexplicably weird scenarios and "logic" that makes absolutely no logical sense whatsoever in these games: "Because Japan."

Seriously, no disrespect to our far east neighbors but they really, really push the envelope when it comes to weirdness.

@RedDingo7777 said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Are IRL children harmed in the creation of this content?

Honestly the answer to this question is not simple, nor is the question itself.

The argument would be that facilitating these sorts of fetishes IRL with content that seems to "promote" their (a pedophile's) inclinations worsens their disorder by nature of enabling their feelings and potentially pushes a afflicted individual closer to committing an actual crime by acting on their tendencies.

This is something of an active debate in the field of psychology though.

This all seems complicated the further down the thread it goes...

I wonder what a good solution to this would be? Removing the scene that's causing this dispute? Having an option to not have to see that content? Maybe just wait for NGS so you don't need to see this older content?

Respecting boundaries and establishing informed consent is my primary concern when it comes to sexuality. Harm arises when one party is at a disadvantage. Children being physiologically incapable of the same degree of judgment as adults means sexual activity between them is inherently harmful. However as far as media goes; only material that involved real life children in explicitly activity can be definitively called harmful in this regard because a child was harmed in its creation and allowing its circulation would encourage a market that rewards further harm. I see no point in cracking down on material that is purely fictional where all parties respected each others boundaries and established informed consent.

If fictional material enables pedophiles, then it only stands to reason that depictions of war and conflict have enabled incidents of violent assault. One cannot be true and the other false unless we have definitive proof that the drives for sex and violence are different on a neurological level. I am not necessarily resistant to the possibility that human behavior is influenced by art and imagery or that certain ideas need to be quarantined from the general public. However, if cracking down on said material does not demonstrably reduce the rate of incidence in real life, then you have wasted time and energy on a crusade that only caters to your personal squick factor rather than actually help anyone.

Having observed silently I too am curious just what it is we want out of this. As established, Sega mainly prioritizes their domestic Japanese fanbase which has resulted in lots of decisions made specifically around them such as the Shining franchise abandoning its unique gameplay, story and visual style in favour of becoming JRPGs with an anime art style and tropes, or how the followup to the first Valkyria Chronicles ends up on a system that is popular in Japan but not popular in the West and goes for a high school direction, or the countless games deserving of a PC port which dont get one because PC games dont sell in Japan.

Now dont get me wrong for every example I have named theres been instances of them doing things for their Western market, but the bottom line is they are less focused on producing games that appeal to a global audience but rather produce things for their Japanese market and give the rest of the world a taste of it and if things the West wants don't interfere with their primary audience, Japan, then maybe they'll consider giving us exclusive stuff but that's about it.

Episode 4 im a bit confused... I fully expected complaints about it. If its not the people crying out about the censorship of scenes many in the fandom agreed were uncomfortable then its people complaining about the general direction the plot's taken. Aside from those complaining about censorship (which is quite minimal from what I have seen), just what is it that we want or can even be done? Episode 4 being a high school slice of life isekai at the start is old news as it released in Japan in 2016 and has been a part of the game ever since. If there was any time to complain, it would have been there but as we know, Western fans didnt have a voice since the game wasnt our in the West and we were playing the Japanese version made for Japanese players... we now have a voice but Episode 4 is such old news that I just dont see what can be done about it. That we simply don't get Episode 4? For Sega to go out of their way of redoing Episode 4 for Western players? I'm seriously curious what it is that we want...

@RedDingo7777 I agree to your views. I feel this is closer to my own mindset than anything I have seen on these threads so far. Thing is that people have different mindsets for this and they feel they have other reasons to defend this or that point in that argument, and thus why we get the usual infighting between otherwise fans of the exact same game.

"If fictional material enables pedophiles, then it only stands to reason that depictions of war and conflict have enabled incidents of violent assault."

I assume some people have already an answer against this comment going along the lines of liking one thing isn't the same as liking the other and so on. This very thought process is, to me, the very key to why people may be fighting here in this thread.

@Leonkh99 At least I can tell you what I'd want of Ep 4.

Nothing.

I want nothing done to it. My own view and short critique of it a few posts back was just that. A critique of a product that does nothing but review the content. If this critique could reach the devs ears (it won't, of course), I'd like it to serve to make a better product in the future. Not a product I like, but a plain better product that more people may like. But about what's already released? I don't feel it's needed to remove it nor change it. People have a skip function for a reason, but I also feel those who want to see the content and give honest and constructive feedback on it, should be enabled to do so as well.

I've only made it to the 3rd chapter. The cringe. It hurts.

@Zipzo said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@RedDingo7777 said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Are IRL children harmed in the creation of this content?

Honestly the answer to this question is not simple, nor is the question itself.

The argument would be that facilitating these sorts of fetishes IRL with content that seems to "promote" their (a pedophile's) inclinations worsens their disorder by nature of enabling their feelings and potentially pushes a afflicted individual closer to committing an actual crime by acting on their tendencies.

This is something of an active debate in the field of psychology though.

Unlike how violence in games has been scientifically proven a hundred times to not cause violent tendencies in people (because time and time again ppl love using games as scapegoats), the argument you mentioned has been thrown out there a million times without any real evidence that proves it true that I know of. So much so that it holds zero weight with me and just comes across as an empty excuse. Until I'm shown evidence that proves otherwise, worrying about pixels is a complete waste of time.

@Z0DIAK-BRAVE said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Zipzo said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@RedDingo7777 said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Are IRL children harmed in the creation of this content?

Honestly the answer to this question is not simple, nor is the question itself.

The argument would be that facilitating these sorts of fetishes IRL with content that seems to "promote" their (a pedophile's) inclinations worsens their disorder by nature of enabling their feelings and potentially pushes a afflicted individual closer to committing an actual crime by acting on their tendencies.

This is something of an active debate in the field of psychology though.

Unlike how violence in games has been scientifically proven a hundred times to not cause violent tendencies in people (because time and time again ppl love using games as scapegoats), the argument you mentioned has been thrown out there a million times without any real evidence that proves it true that I know of. So much so that it holds zero weight with me and just comes across as an empty excuse. Until I'm shown evidence that proves otherwise, worrying about pixels is a complete waste of time.

Yeah, that's why I said it's an active debate.

I think it's important to distinguish between something being the sole reason someone is influenced to do something, or something being simply a factor in someone's influence.

Did a violent game force or brainwash someone in to committing violence? No, probably not. Did it help? I mean...no, probably not. Does it really make sense in your mind to say that it had literally zero effect on someone that is already suffering from (probably) some kind of mental illness?

Similarly, pedophilia is a disorder, it's an affliction that those with it need to manage. Do you think freedom to access and play free video games that let them play out there fantasy helps them reduce their inclinations?

Like I said, I'm not saying any of this is objectively proven, but with a little bit of common sense and understanding that there's a lot of nuance, I feel like it's easy to come to the conclusion that the effect media on people who are mentally compromised is not zero.

@Zipzo Dude, your just as bad as the OP, and are just blowing sh*t way out of proportion. There were only two creeps in the story, one's an antagonist, the other is brainwashed. They are plot points designed to show, and not tell. The only bad thing about them, is that it made the plot way too obvious, which, besides a few other minor cringe parts, are the only real flaws with this story. The story, as an idea isn't bad, it's execution however is. That said, it's a brief moment of creep vibes, that is a cliche in Anime, and is rather commonplace. I otherwise enjoyed what I could in the story, as it has it's good points.

You know what's funny, is the people like you that entertain the argument for censorship, never look at the people, who's mind immediately goes to the worst places. The OP brings back a memory, a recent one, of a dude that said Anime itself is for pedos, and the dude who said that, was later arrested on charges related to children. It's often those that make big deal out of non issues, that are themselves, exactly what they claim to be against. Look at Antifa, biggest fascists out there. That's just one example. I'm seriously tired of people like you that argue for censorship, because it might lead to whatever you tried to censor being commonplace, when in fact, it bears no weight either way, as someone that's messed up in the head, will always be, with or without the medium. Just as guns don't kill people, the people that pull the trigger do, one scene of something even remotely morally questionable, isn't going to make someone more or less morally reprehensible. Bad people, will always do bad things. I really wish this thread would get GM deleted, as it does nothing but bait people into arguing.