@Brave said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Z0DIAK-BRAVE said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Brave said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

pedophilia is real, that's why, cartoon villains are not. how did you miss that in your desperation?

Do you know what's not real?

The game and every thing in it.

the game is a depiction made be real people who live in the real world, kind of like a drawing or a story or a movie.

cool, none of that is real so I don't care

like @zaffy2005 is unaware media isn't food or life-giving, you don't seem to be aware that media (all of it) is made by humans with intent and agendas. you cannot live off of pso2 any more than your implication that you think pso2 popped out of nothingness.

I can't tell you what was going through the mind of the staff at sega when making scenes like that, though it seems there is a full-court-press worldwide to "normalize" that.

I can however tell you what is going through your mind while defending it, and I think any sane person can.

Pretty sure a sane person that knows anything about anime would see this, realize they've seen it a hundred times before, and move on with their life.

Sarcastically pointing out I clearly don't agree with your sentiment doesn't mean I'm automatically defending the other side. I just don't waste time and QQ over things that aren't real. I don't care who it's made by, nor do I care intent. A person can intend something all they want, it falls solely on who consumes it as to how it's received.

@Brave said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Z0DIAK-BRAVE said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Brave said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

pedophilia is real, that's why, cartoon villains are not. how did you miss that in your desperation?

Do you know what's not real?

The game and every thing in it.

the game is a depiction made be real people who live in the real world, kind of like a drawing or a story or a movie. like @zaffy2005 is unaware media isn't food or life-giving, you don't seem to be aware that media (all of it) is made by humans with intent and agendas. you cannot live off of pso2 any more than your implication that you think pso2 popped out of nothingness.

I can't tell you what was going through the mind of the staff at sega when making scenes like that, though it seems there is a full-court-press worldwide to "normalize" that.

I can however tell you what is going through your mind while defending it, and I think any sane person can.

Do you actually think before you reply. What agenda is there, to normalize what you are claiming to be pedophilia? Do you not see how crazy you look. Hey, it's all an agenda, and paranoid delusions aren't real. It's literally one character, that's (SPOILER ALERT) later revealed to be mentally unstable, and is so screwd up mentally, that she thinks killing someone, is how you save them from being "manipulated, and mind controlled." The crazy bit*h is literally projecting her mental condition of being manipulated, onto her former friend, and then almost kills her. At no point is anything normalised. As I stated before, it's showing, not telling a story. That's how you write good depth into a character.

guys did anyone notice that we are killing animals in this game that is so disgusting....killing poor rappys who would never ever harm a soul...or killing a bar lodos who is just protecting his nest...whos gonna feed its kids? ever thought of that? farming monkeys in forest only to collect their hide and complete a mission from those greedy npc...so disgusting

now a lil more serious...

@Ki-Rin said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Seriously? You decided to keep this in the USA version?

i mean let that one sink...USA version...its hard to take people for real if the first thing they write is this

I haven't finished it, and please no major plot spoilers. But I'm well into the meat of it and beyond gushing about "cuteness" I saw nothing particularly inappropriate.

It was even implied that the black haired girl was not particularly fond of men, but was greatly into "style" and "cute things"; implying she never saw him in any romantic or sexual way. At worst he saw him like a lost puppy dog with sentience.

Our main girl Hitsugi, at least so far as I have seen, has only implied a familial relationship. Which is acceptable considering his design is clearly off her originally designed in game character. I don't know what that is ultimately going to mean plot wise, but this does give a reasonable expectation for their familial relationship.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (without major plot spoilers), but there is nothing in here that is problematic even by sensitive western sensibilities, which frankly need to be rethought and reevaluated with a more critical eye; and frankly needs less emotional appeals with infantile delusions of "right and wrong".

Now let's say I get to the end of this and they become romantically involved I still don't see an issue. Hitsugi is still in high school herself. Implying likely 16-17 (since her older brother is a year older, and has not graduated; considering he still has a dorm room). While the boy is most likely supposed to be 16 except short and with youthful features. My evidence for this is that Pati and Tia even state "avatar characters", whom he was clearly designed off of; are indistinguishable from regular ARKs ops. In leau of that information; no Arks op is younger than 16, and if he would be equally indistinguishable he would have to fall under that same category. However even if you were to take the biggest, and frankly unlikely extreme and say with his youthful features (something perfectly reasonable for Hitsugi given her personality to design for an avatar btw,) and claim that he is in fact 13: That is still at worst a 4 year age gap; something that is considered completely legal and acceptable in many parts of the world outside of Japan regarding consent.

The toughest pill for moral-xenophobic westerners to swallow is that this was made with Japanese sensibilities. Human agency and responsibility is treated different there, and people are forced to be responsible for themselves much earlier than we do in the west. However, even with all that I still have not seen anything beyond a familial relationship between these two so far, and the black haired girl just squealing about cuteness. This is not a reason to complain, get your priorities strait and maybe consider taking a critical thinking class.

The only "Disgusting" thing so far about Episdoe 4's story is how much of a light it shines on the Xenophobia of the west.

@Zipzo said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Z0DIAK-BRAVE said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Zipzo said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@RedDingo7777 said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Are IRL children harmed in the creation of this content?

Honestly the answer to this question is not simple, nor is the question itself.

The argument would be that facilitating these sorts of fetishes IRL with content that seems to "promote" their (a pedophile's) inclinations worsens their disorder by nature of enabling their feelings and potentially pushes a afflicted individual closer to committing an actual crime by acting on their tendencies.

This is something of an active debate in the field of psychology though.

Unlike how violence in games has been scientifically proven a hundred times to not cause violent tendencies in people (because time and time again ppl love using games as scapegoats), the argument you mentioned has been thrown out there a million times without any real evidence that proves it true that I know of. So much so that it holds zero weight with me and just comes across as an empty excuse. Until I'm shown evidence that proves otherwise, worrying about pixels is a complete waste of time.

Yeah, that's why I said it's an active debate.

I think it's important to distinguish between something being the sole reason someone is influenced to do something, or something being simply a factor in someone's influence.

Did a violent game force or brainwash someone in to committing violence? No, probably not. Did it help? I mean...no, probably not. Does it really make sense in your mind to say that it had literally zero effect on someone that is already suffering from (probably) some kind of mental illness?

Similarly, pedophilia is a disorder, it's an affliction that those with it need to manage. Do you think freedom to access and play free video games that let them play out there fantasy helps them reduce their inclinations?

Like I said, I'm not saying any of this is objectively proven, but with a little bit of common sense and understanding that there's a lot of nuance, I feel like it's easy to come to the conclusion that the effect media on people who are mentally compromised is not zero.

It’s an active debate in the same sense as “Intelligent Design” is an active debate.

I mean the boy is kind of relevant to the overall Profound Darkness Plot and Ether & Hitsugi's Katana are important for the EP5 plot to happen. Al's cute boy appearance is important to characterize Kohri since she's lesbian and only cares about femboys and girls. Changing his appearance would screw with that.

The game doesn't really need more censorship that it already got.

the story is shit. it was bad before as well but now it don't make in universe sense. well good thing no one force me to watch it skip all the way

@Z0DIAK-BRAVE said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Brave said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Z0DIAK-BRAVE said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Brave said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

pedophilia is real, that's why, cartoon villains are not. how did you miss that in your desperation?

Do you know what's not real?

The game and every thing in it.

the game is a depiction made be real people who live in the real world, kind of like a drawing or a story or a movie.

cool, none of that is real so I don't care

like @zaffy2005 is unaware media isn't food or life-giving, you don't seem to be aware that media (all of it) is made by humans with intent and agendas. you cannot live off of pso2 any more than your implication that you think pso2 popped out of nothingness.

I can't tell you what was going through the mind of the staff at sega when making scenes like that, though it seems there is a full-court-press worldwide to "normalize" that.

I can however tell you what is going through your mind while defending it, and I think any sane person can.

Pretty sure a sane person that knows anything about anime would see this, realize they've seen it a hundred times before, and move on with their life.

Sarcastically pointing out I clearly don't agree with your sentiment doesn't mean I'm automatically defending the other side. I just don't waste time and QQ over things that aren't real. I don't care who it's made by, nor do I care intent. A person can intend something all they want, it falls solely on who consumes it as to how it's received.

The real world, where the game is made and where you reside (even if you don't like that being pointed out) IS real.

I have met countless sane people (and even more insane people), but no sane person would miss the malicious intent here passed off as "anti-censorship."

From what I heard years ago, quite a lot of child pornography uses 3d models. they take a photo, then put a 3d model over it to conjure up that "lol it's not real" defense. Just want to let you know the lineage of your excuses.

Sega did the right thing in removing the scenes, the people frothing at the mouth to defend them being made at all, however...

@Anarchy-Marine said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Brave said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Z0DIAK-BRAVE said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Brave said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

pedophilia is real, that's why, cartoon villains are not. how did you miss that in your desperation?

Do you know what's not real?

The game and every thing in it.

the game is a depiction made be real people who live in the real world, kind of like a drawing or a story or a movie. like @zaffy2005 is unaware media isn't food or life-giving, you don't seem to be aware that media (all of it) is made by humans with intent and agendas. you cannot live off of pso2 any more than your implication that you think pso2 popped out of nothingness.

I can't tell you what was going through the mind of the staff at sega when making scenes like that, though it seems there is a full-court-press worldwide to "normalize" that.

I can however tell you what is going through your mind while defending it, and I think any sane person can.

Do you actually think before you reply. What agenda is there, to normalize what you are claiming to be pedophilia? Do you not see how crazy you look. Hey, it's all an agenda, and paranoid delusions aren't real. It's literally one character, that's (SPOILER ALERT) later revealed to be mentally unstable, and is so screwd up mentally, that she thinks killing someone, is how you save them from being "manipulated, and mind controlled." The crazy bit*h is literally projecting her mental condition of being manipulated, onto her former friend, and then almost kills her. At no point is anything normalised. As I stated before, it's showing, not telling a story. That's how you write good depth into a character.

I am almost entirely sure I put more thought into choosing one word than you did (at least) your whole post here; that you cannot see the salience of my point is the point I was making. What is a monumental push to "normalize" the unthinkable has been a death march against humanity going on for over 100 years, with this as the final endgame.

Not ironically, "paranoia" and "delusion" were both smears soviets used to use against those who called them out. The intent was to mark any who "asked the wrong questions" or "noticed things they shouldn't have" for execution. I don't see you having the ability to achieve anything relating to any of your ambitions stated clearly by your actions (which you attempt to hide by rhetoric), but the intent is there.

That is the point I have been making the whole time: the intent is there (and clear).

As GK Chesterton said: "Of these who are deceived I shall speak of course as we all do of such instruments; judging them by the good they think they are doing, and not by the evil which they really do."

@Daishi said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (without major plot spoilers), but there is nothing in here that is problematic even by sensitive western sensibilities, which frankly need to be rethought and reevaluated with a more critical eye; and frankly needs less emotional appeals with infantile delusions of "right and wrong".

Now let's say I get to the end of this and they become romantically involved I still don't see an issue. Hitsugi is still in high school herself. Implying likely 16-17 (since her older brother is a year older, and has not graduated; considering he still has a dorm room). While the boy is most likely supposed to be 16 except short and with youthful features. My evidence for this is that Pati and Tia even state "avatar characters", whom he was clearly designed off of; are indistinguishable from regular ARKs ops. In leau of that information; no Arks op is younger than 16, and if he would be equally indistinguishable he would have to fall under that same category. However even if you were to take the biggest, and frankly unlikely extreme and say with his youthful features (something perfectly reasonable for Hitsugi given her personality to design for an avatar btw,) and claim that he is in fact 13: That is still at worst a 4 year age gap; something that is considered completely legal and acceptable in many parts of the world outside of Japan regarding consent.

The toughest pill for moral-xenophobic westerners to swallow is that this was made with Japanese sensibilities. Human agency and responsibility is treated different there, and people are forced to be responsible for themselves much earlier than we do in the west. However, even with all that I still have not seen anything beyond a familial relationship between these two so far, and the black haired girl just squealing about cuteness. This is not a reason to complain, get your priorities strait and maybe consider taking a critical thinking class.

The only "Disgusting" thing so far about Episdoe 4's story is how much of a light it shines on the Xenophobia of the west.

Right is right, even if no one is right. Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is wrong. you might think yourself free to deny moral principles, but you cannot escape the consequences of the denial of moral principles.

Or to put it most bluntly "We know you by your fruits." No sneering will change that, none; no matter how much Virtue makes your vices uncomfortable or how much you don't realize shame is just the natural response to doing the unnatural.

As GK Chesterton also said: "Do not be proud of the fact that your grandmother was shocked at something which you are accustomed to seeing or hearing without being shocked. There are two meanings of the word “nervous”; and it is not even a physical superiority to be actually without nerves. It may mean that your grandmother was an extremely lively and vital animal; and that you are a paralytic."

And for the complete takedown: "For what we do at least know, in the most fundamental fashion, is that man is man by the possession of these fastidious fancies; from which the free-thinking haddock is entirely emancipated; and by which the latitudinarian turnip is never troubled. To lose the sense of repugnance from one thing, or regard for another, is exactly so far as it goes to relapse into the vegetarian or to return to the dust. But for about fifty or sixty years, nearly all our culture and controversial trend has been conducted on the assumption that as long as we could get used to any sort of caddishness, we could be perfectly contented in being cads. I do not say that all the results of the process have been wrong. But I do say that the test of the process has been wrong from first to last; for it is not a case against the citizen that a man can grow accustomed to being either a savage or a slave."

Brave, that response needs so many citations so badly...

@Brave The fact that you have to use the words of others, to argue your points, shows that you lack the capacity to form the words necessary to argue it on your own. You believe that your knowledgeable about something, because you read the words of another about moral rights and wrongs, but are yourself a pretender. Even if you take the words of someone that had genius philosophical knowledge over religions, or moral beliefs as a theologian, that doesn't in turn make you equally as knowledgeable. You are no better than the evangelicals that condem their fellow man, following a bible they do not fully understand, or the Catholics that claim moral superiority, but have allowed their own to touch children. You are no better than the Pharisees that wanted Christ out of the picture, due to the miracles that he performed. You've shown your hand. You believe you are morally superior, and yes, are delusional, as you carry with you delusions of grandeur, a higher standing over others. I judge others by both their actions, and by their words, and the fact that you can't see the forest for the trees, doesn't surprise me. You want something to be there, you want an issue to exist, so that you can be right, because you, and others like you, can't admit when your wrong.

There is nothing wrong with the story in Episode 4, nothing short of a character in a video game, that was written to be a bit off, as to foreshadow the fact that the person is a nut case. I knew who the antagonist characters were, long before the story ever got to that point. Get off of your moral high horse, and come back down to earth, and stop exalting yourself above others.

@Sephlock said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Brave, that response needs so many citations so badly...

What would you insist I "cite?" This is a conversation using the intellect, mostly a philosophical one. Reason and Faith are therefore the necessary forms of thought applied here, as Logic deals with the senses.

Are you under the impression that common sense needs "citations," that we would not know the grass is green and sky is blue without "confirmed ideas?" I don't doubt that some may need that "help," but the vast majority of mankind does not. Gamers, especially "anime" gamers, are a microcosm of a microcosm and so we see abhorrent things being asserted and defended here as popular and "givens" that you wouldn't see anywhere else.

Therefore what is "popular" here says nothing about what normal people think. Speaking as a normal person, I can assure you many of the ideas spat out in this thread with fury are not common any more than they are acceptable to sane people.

@Anarchy-Marine said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Brave The fact that you have to use the words of others, to argue your points, shows that you lack the capacity to form the words necessary to argue it on your own. You believe that your knowledgeable about something, because you read the words of another about moral rights and wrongs, but are yourself a pretender. Even if you take the words of someone that had genius philosophical knowledge over religions, or moral beliefs as a theologian, that doesn't in turn make you equally as knowledgeable. You are no better than the evangelicals that condem their fellow man, following a bible they do not fully understand, or the Catholics that claim moral superiority, but have allowed their own to touch children. You are no better than the Pharisees that wanted Christ out of the picture, due to the miracles that he performed. You've shown your hand. You believe you are morally superior, and yes, are delusional, as you carry with you delusions of grandeur, a higher standing over others. I judge others by both their actions, and by their words, and the fact that you can't see the forest for the trees, doesn't surprise me. You want something to be there, you want an issue to exist, so that you can be right, because you, and others like you, can't admit when your wrong.

There is nothing wrong with the story in Episode 4, nothing short of a character in a video game, that was written to be a bit off, as to foreshadow the fact that the person is a nut case. I knew who the antagonist characters were, long before the story ever got to that point. Get off of your moral high horse, and come back down to earth, and stop exalting yourself above others.

I quote my teachers, because they have had to deal with your kind far longer than I have. evil isn't new, it just changes its face or name. The things they dealt with are indistinguishable to what we deal with today.

Quoting shows I am not only founded in rock-solid thinking, but that my thinking is so rock-solid I can notice old hat when it rears its (very) ugly head.

you, being totally unfounded, not being able to see anything two inches past your nose, therefore consider it "unfair" when I bring backup and Truth ancient. I could quote from The Diadache or St Peter Damien's "The Book of gommorrah," but that would be a bit too heady for this conversation, so I quote my heroes who are more recent.

Ironic to your assertion, The Church is actually the cleanest out of all groups when it comes to child abuse. Nor does The Church even allow it as you are automatically excommunicated "By The Weight Of Law" a few steps on the path to child abuse. Media narratives aren't fact, and are usually only there to obfuscate instead of inform.

As the kids say: "do better."

@Brave You just keep furthering my point. You are a religious zealot, and have no real faith, just the words of dead men, that you don't even understand fully. You shove your moral self righteousness, and religion into other people's faces, and drive people ever further from God, because nobody likes pushy people. That's why God made faith a choice, you either believe, or you don't. And you clearly don't believe in anything, as you find it necessary to try to control others. Your support for censorship over a non issue shows me as much. It's no different than the German Nazis burning books they didn't agree with. I see religious Fascism is alive and well. Good Day/Night, depending on your region. I need not reply to you further, as there is no point talking with people like you. The conversation will go nowhere meaningful.

@Daishi said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Our main girl Hitsugi, at least so far as I have seen, has only implied a familial relationship. Which is acceptable considering his design is clearly off her originally designed in game character. I don't know what that is ultimately going to mean plot wise, but this does give a reasonable expectation for their familial relationship.

i initially assumed Al was technically the same age as Hitsugi because:

1. Al called himself Hitsugi after the log out. and i assumed her Aether influenced Al believe his name was hitsugi even though he was her "avatar".
2. and her ign was Hitsugi (and a gaming sin might as well been broken there for putting your ign as your actual name.) though i could look past that because she and the rest of the student council were looking out for "bugs" in the "game" for mother, and they decided their names made things easier to share info between each other. also, the fact that one techno organization LITERALLY has all the information of everyone on the aethernet and earth itself made having a ign that's not your name pointless. (jeez, that earth sounds familiar huh?)

@Brave said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

@Daishi said in Episode 4 story is disgusting:

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (without major plot spoilers), but there is nothing in here that is problematic even by sensitive western sensibilities, which frankly need to be rethought and reevaluated with a more critical eye; and frankly needs less emotional appeals with infantile delusions of "right and wrong".

Now let's say I get to the end of this and they become romantically involved I still don't see an issue. Hitsugi is still in high school herself. Implying likely 16-17 (since her older brother is a year older, and has not graduated; considering he still has a dorm room). While the boy is most likely supposed to be 16 except short and with youthful features. My evidence for this is that Pati and Tia even state "avatar characters", whom he was clearly designed off of; are indistinguishable from regular ARKs ops. In leau of that information; no Arks op is younger than 16, and if he would be equally indistinguishable he would have to fall under that same category. However even if you were to take the biggest, and frankly unlikely extreme and say with his youthful features (something perfectly reasonable for Hitsugi given her personality to design for an avatar btw,) and claim that he is in fact 13: That is still at worst a 4 year age gap; something that is considered completely legal and acceptable in many parts of the world outside of Japan regarding consent.

The toughest pill for moral-xenophobic westerners to swallow is that this was made with Japanese sensibilities. Human agency and responsibility is treated different there, and people are forced to be responsible for themselves much earlier than we do in the west. However, even with all that I still have not seen anything beyond a familial relationship between these two so far, and the black haired girl just squealing about cuteness. This is not a reason to complain, get your priorities strait and maybe consider taking a critical thinking class.

The only "Disgusting" thing so far about Episdoe 4's story is how much of a light it shines on the Xenophobia of the west.

Right is right, even if no one is right. Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is wrong. you might think yourself free to deny moral principles, but you cannot escape the consequences of the denial of moral principles.

Or to put it most bluntly "We know you by your fruits." No sneering will change that, none; no matter how much Virtue makes your vices uncomfortable or how much you don't realize shame is just the natural response to doing the unnatural.

As GK Chesterton also said: "Do not be proud of the fact that your grandmother was shocked at something which you are accustomed to seeing or hearing without being shocked. There are two meanings of the word “nervous”; and it is not even a physical superiority to be actually without nerves. It may mean that your grandmother was an extremely lively and vital animal; and that you are a paralytic."

And for the complete takedown: "For what we do at least know, in the most fundamental fashion, is that man is man by the possession of these fastidious fancies; from which the free-thinking haddock is entirely emancipated; and by which the latitudinarian turnip is never troubled. To lose the sense of repugnance from one thing, or regard for another, is exactly so far as it goes to relapse into the vegetarian or to return to the dust. But for about fifty or sixty years, nearly all our culture and controversial trend has been conducted on the assumption that as long as we could get used to any sort of caddishness, we could be perfectly contented in being cads. I do not say that all the results of the process have been wrong. But I do say that the test of the process has been wrong from first to last; for it is not a case against the citizen that a man can grow accustomed to being either a savage or a slave."

I don't deny moral principles, I think they need to be evaluated objectively. As you said, a wrong is wrong even if everyone is wrong; and it is wrong for emotional appeals to be an over arching basis for which we derive morality, and I have yet to see a critically sound one against episode 4 here.

Philosophy about changing in sensibilities is irrelevant, and frankly critically invalid as it fails to make a proper claim regarding the specific subject matter at hand.

Episode 4 never happened... I hope we can all agree with that lul