Hunter main bouncer sub build.....Am I the only one?

This is my build but I don’t see many doing this build whatsoever? Is their a reason why?

In general, Bouncer makes a poor sub since the majority of its damage Skills are extremely conditional and mostly only suited to Bouncer's weapons.

As a Hunter, you get far more benefits from having Fighter as your sub, but if you really want to be able to use Techs, then a Summoner sub is a decent, if still niche, option.

You have to remember, the main point of a subclass in this game is to get additional Skills that are conducive to your main class. While it is possible to use PAs from your sub, assuming you have a multi- or all-class version of its Weapons, that is just a side benefit that is primarily only worth it for leveling without needing to change your playstyle.

Thank you but for some odd reason I feel this build works......not always about DPS but sometimes it about survival!

@RainGnyu if it works for you right now, then I say have fun with it!

There isn't much of a DPS check right now, so we can get away with a lot things that might not work so well later on once more and harder content is out.

@RainGnyu That's fine, if it works for you, have fun, but just remember, once you start getting in to higher level content, you want to be able to carry your share of the load in MPAs rather than being carried.

Though, I do have to ask with genuine curiosity, why do you feel Bouncer gives you more survivabilty?

What are the higher levels because I am now doing ultimate quest right now. Is there something harder?

@RainGnyu As more content gets released over the course of the next few months, there is going to be a lot of content that is more difficult, and ends up creating a larger gap between between more optimal builds and "I'll just do it my way" builds, because this is a DPS-focused game; though, I guess the people who get carried don't really realize it since they think they are doing just fine.

That said, you never did answer my question, why do you feel Bouncer gives you more survivabilty?

@AndrlCh said in Hunter main bouncer sub build.....Am I the only one?:

@RainGnyu As more content gets released over the course of the next few months, there is going to be a lot of content that is more difficult, and ends up creating a larger gap between between more optimal builds and "I'll just do it my way" builds, because this is a DPS-focused game; though, I guess the people who get carried don't really realize it since they think they are doing just fine.

That said, you never did answer my question, why do you feel Bouncer gives you more survivabilty?

I guess because I can use spell/skills to heal and buff my existing offensive and defensive stats and skills such as elemental and critical extra damage as well. Along with mag excitement and HP rings to help and skill to help surrounding teammates. I guess I am saying it not all about DPS if your dead.

Just my personal thoughts

@RainGnyu Taking all that into consideration, I would still personally recommend Summoner over Bouncer as a sub since it does actually give both better survivabilty and more consistent damage (with higher damage potential). I'll just leave this info here for you to consider:


First some general things. Remember, in this game, “critical hits” are not extra damage, rather they are the upper level of your damage, with the lowest level determined by your DEX when using 1☆ to 6☆ Weapons; 7☆+ Weapons have a bonus to them that raises your minimum damage to about 90% of your upper level. Critical Rate Boosts just increase the probability of hitting your max damage, but in general they aren’t that great unless you can get to a 100% Crit Rate since the gap between min and max with a 7☆+ Weapon is so small.


SKILL TREES/BASE STATS

https://bit.ly/2ClBuGJ

Bouncer (this is just a guess at what a Bouncer sub could look like):

alt text

Summoner:

alt text

Based on these Trees, using a lv75/75 Male Human with a lv200 MEL-Pwr MAG as the example, we get these Base Stats (not including any Stat-Ups from Hunter):

Bouncer

alt text

Summoner

alt text


BUFFS

RESTA

The formula to determine how much charged Resta heals per tick is (Base TEC-Pwr/4)x(Resta Power %)x(Resta Advance)x(Potential).

So using the TEC-Pwr we have (not taking into account Shifta) and the potency of a lv15 Resta, we can take a look at the differences between Su and Bo for healing:

For Summoner, we don’t have any Skills to further increase Resta’s power, so we simply have: (689/4)x(114%)=196 per charged tick; 784 with all four ticks

For Bouncer, we do have Healing Bonus, so we can add it in to the calculation to get: (489/4)x(114%)x(115%)=160 per charged tick; 640 with all four ticks

As we can see, even with Healing Bonus, Summoner will heal more just due to the higher TEC-Pwr.

SHIFTA

The first thing to keep in mind with Shifta is that it only boosts your Base Pwr stats, so that includes your Mag and any Stat Up Skills from your Skill Tree, but excludes Weapons, Units, and Augments. Other than that, it is a simple calculation to get the amount of extra Pwr from Shifta: (Base Pwr)x(Shifta Power %/10).

So, using a lv15 Shifta (194% potency), for our MEL-Pwr on Summoner we get: (1016)x(19.4%)=197; 1213 total MEL-Pwr

And for Bouncer we get: (901)x(19.4%)=174; 1075 total MEL-Pwr

DEBAND

Deband is calculated just like Shifta, but with Def instead.

So just looking at MEL-Def, we have Summoner: (855)x(19.4%)=166; 1021 total MEL-Def

And Bouncer: (655)x(19.4%)=127; 782 total MEL-Def

MEGIVERSE/ZANVERSE/ZONDEEL

These will be the same for both Summoner and Bouncer.


DAMAGE

Off the bat, assuming the exact same damage multipliers, Summoner will do more damage than Bouncer just due to higher base MEL-Pwr from the Stat-Up Skills, but we do want to take a look at the actual damage Skills for each class (we are going to assume Shifta is always active).

For Summoner, the main multipliers are All Attack Bonus 1 and 2 (each give a 115% unconditional multiplier), but you also get Summoner’s Mark (115% on a target with the Mark on it), Enhanced Mark (a further 110% for directly attacking the Mark), and Pet Elemental Precision Hit (105% for matching Elemental weakness), so if we take a look at all combinations of these we get:

  • AAB1+AAB2=132.25%
  • AAB1+AAB2+SM=152.1%
  • AAB1+AAB2+SM+EM=167.3%
  • AAB1+AAB2+PEPH=138.9%
  • AAB1+AAB2+SM+PEPH=159.7%
  • AAB1+AAB2+SM+EM+PEPH=175.7%

The most common scenario for Mobs will likely be AAB1+AAB2 since you won’t be putting Summoner’s Mark on everything and you won’t necessarily need to switch to a matching element weapon. For Bosses, you will likely be adding the Mark, but you may or may not be able to hit the Mark depending on the Boss.

For Bouncer, we have the two conditional Stances, Elemental (120% matching Element, 115% non-matching Element) and Break (135% against Breakable parts, 100% against non-Breakable parts), with their Stance Up Skills (110% for meeting the Stance condition), and Shifta Air Attack Boost (while Shifta is active, 105% for attack while airborne). For simplicity’s sake, we will note whether a stance condition is not met with a “ - “.

  • ES+ESU=132%
  • ES+ESU+SAAB=138.6%
  • ES-=115%
  • ES-+SAAB=120.75%
  • BS+BSU=148.5%
  • BS+BSU+SAAB=155.9%
  • BS-=100%
  • BS-+SAAB=105%

As can be seen, due to the heavily conditional nature of Bouncer’s multipliers, it has much lower lows for its damage, and even its most ideal set up (BS+BSU+SAAB) is overshadowed by a Summoner matching element (AAB1+AAB2+SM+PEPH).


OTHER SKILLS

In terms of utility Skills, Summoner’s only major one is HP Restorate, which will heal you for 7.5% of your HP every 5 seconds, and is also available via a Ring.

Bouncer does have more utilities (not including the two we already mentioned in the Buffs and Damage sections). For personal use, there is Deband Attack PP Restorate and Perfect Recovery PP Gain, which are very useful just because PP recovery is useful. For group use, you have Critical Field (+30% Crit Rate), Elemental PP Restorate Field (+3PP per Normal Attack when matching element), Field Remain (extends the Fields’ effects for 30 seconds), and Heal Sharing (20% of HP recovered is also recovered by players within a certain range). Critical Field is available as a Ring with a slightly longer cooldown, and Heal Sharing and Elemental PP Restorate Field will be available as Rings once Episode 4 releases.

@AndrlCh said in Hunter main bouncer sub build.....Am I the only one?:

@RainGnyu Taking all that into consideration, I would still personally recommend Summoner as a sub since it does actually give both better survivabilty and more consistent damage (with higher damage potential). I'll just leave this info here for you to consider:


First some general things. Remember, in this game, “critical hits” are not extra damage, rather they are the upper level of your damage, with the lowest level determined by your DEX when using 1☆ to 6☆ Weapons; 7☆+ Weapons have a bonus to them that raises your minimum damage to about 90% of your upper level. Critical Rate Boosts just increase the probability of hitting your max damage, but in general they aren’t that great unless you can get to a 100% Crit Rate since the gap between min and max with a 7☆ Weapon is so small.


SKILL TREES/BASE STATS

https://bit.ly/2ClBuGJ

Bouncer (this is just a guess at what a Bouncer sub could look like):

alt text

Summoner:

alt text

Based on these Trees, using a lv75/75 Male Human with a lv200 MEL-Pwr MAG as the example, we get these Base Stats (not including any Stat-Ups from Hunter):

Bouncer

alt text

Summoner

alt text


BUFFS

RESTA

The formula to determine how much charged Resta heals per tick is (Base TEC-Pwr/4)x(Resta Power %)x(Resta Advance)x(Potential).

So using the TEC-Pwr we have (not taking into account Shifta) and the potency of a lv15 Resta, we can take a look at the differences between Su and Bo for healing:

For Summoner, we don’t have any Skills to further increase Resta’s power, so we simply have: (689/4)x(114%)=196 per charged tick; 784 with all four ticks

For Bouncer, we do have Healing Bonus, so we can add it in to the calculation to get: (489/4)x(114%)x(115%)=160 per charged tick; 640 with all four ticks

As we can see, even with Healing Bonus, Summoner will heal more just due to the higher TEC-Pwr.

SHIFTA

The first thing to keep in mind with Shifta is that it only boosts your Base Pwr stats, so that includes your Mag and any Stat Up Skills from your Skill Tree, but excludes Weapons, Units, and Augments. Other than that, it is a simple calculation to get the amount of extra Pwr from Shifta: (Base Pwr)x(Shifta Power %/10).

So, using a lv15 Shifta (194% potency), for our MEL-Pwr on Summoner we get: (1016)x(19.4%)=197; 1213 total MEL-Pwr

And for Bouncer we get: (901)x(19.4%)=174; 1075 total MEL-Pwr

DEBAND

Deband is calculated just like Shifta, but with Def instead.

So just looking at MEL-Def, we have Summoner: (855)x(19.4%)=166; 1021 total MEL-Def

And Bouncer: (655)x(19.4%)=127; 782 total MEL-Def

MEGIVERSE/ZANVERSE/ZONDEEL

These will be the same for both Summoner and Bouncer.


DAMAGE

Off the bat, assuming the exact same damage multipliers, Summoner will do more damage than Bouncer just due to higher base MEL-Pwr from the Stat-Up Skills, but we do want to take a look at the actual damage Skills for each class (we are going to assume Shifta is always active).

For Summoner, the main multipliers are All Attack Bonus 1 and 2 (each give a 115% unconditional multiplier), but you also get Summoner’s Mark (115% on a target with the Mark on it), Enhanced Mark (a further 110% for directly attacking the Mark), and Pet Elemental Precision Hit (105% for matching Elemental weakness), so if we take a look at all combinations of these we get:

  • AAB1+AAB2=132.25%
  • AAB1+AAB2+SM=152.1%
  • AAB1+AAB2+SM+EM=167.3%
  • AAB1+AAB2+PEPH=138.9%
  • AAB1+AAB2+SM+PEPH=159.7%
  • AAB1+AAB2+SM+EM+PEPH=175.7%

The most common scenario for Mobs will likely be AAB1+AAB2 since you won’t be putting Summoner’s Mark on everything and you won’t necessarily need to switch to a matching element weapon. For Bosses, you will likely be adding the Mark, but you may or may not be able to hit the Mark depending on the Boss.

For Bouncer, we have the two conditional Stances, Elemental (120% matching Element, 115% non-matching Element) and Break (135% against Breakable parts, 100% against non-Breakable parts), with their Stance Up Skills (110% for meeting the Stance condition), and Shifta Air Attack Boost (while Shifta is active, 105% for attack while airborne). For simplicity’s sake, we will note whether a stance condition is not met with a “ - “.

  • ES+ESU=132%
  • ES+ESU+SAAB=138.6%
  • ES-=115%
  • ES-+SAAB=120.75%
  • BS+BSU=148.5%
  • BS+BSU+SAAB=155.9%
  • BS-=100%
  • BS-+SAAB=105%

As can be seen, due to the heavily conditional nature of Bouncer’s multipliers, it has much lower lows for its damage, and even its most ideal set up (BS+BSU+SAAB) is overshadowed by a Summoner matching element (AAB1+AAB2+SM+PEPH).


OTHER SKILLS

In terms of utility Skills, Summoner’s only major one is HP Restorate, which will heal you for 7.5% of your HP every 5 seconds, and is also available via a Ring.

Bouncer does have more utilities (not including the two we already mentioned in the Buffs and Damage sections). For personal use, there is Deband Attack PP Restorate and Perfect Recovery PP Gain, which are very useful just because PP recovery is useful. For group use, you have Critical Field (+30% Crit Rate), Elemental PP Restorate Field (+3PP per Normal Attack when matching element), Field Remain (extends the Fields’ effects for 30 seconds), and Heal Sharing (20% of HP recovered is also recovered by players within a certain range). Critical Field is available as a Ring with a slightly longer cooldown, and Heal Sharing and Elemental PP Restorate Field will be available as Rings once Episode 4 releases.

Thank you! Informative!