Change the Dark Falz's Names [Story Spoilers]

While the names they currently have are cool and all, it's not really what they call themselves. Luther being the biggest example. He doesn't call himself "the Fallen". Even in the Japanese dub, he calls himself "Loser" in English, because that's what he is, Dark Falz [Loser].

"This Luther! This Loser!" - Just before he becomes a Dark Falz.

While redoing voicing for those names would be hard to do (Or not, I don't know), the least that can be done is changing the nameplates of the enemies themselves to their respective title, so rather than Dark Falz: Luther, it would be Dark Falz: Loser or [Loser].

Same for the other three:

Dark Falz [Elder]

Dark Falz [Apprentice] - Which was somewhat done right in Episode 2, Matoi even calls her [Apprentice]

Dark Falz [Double]

Anyway, small suggestion is small, and is my current gripe with the game (Not including height restrictions, but there's a thread for that). Agree or let this topic die.

I agree that Luther would work significantly better as Loser. It just stands out too much when you have [Elder], [Apprentice], [Gemini], and... Luther.

As an aside, Gemini the Double may be better as Double the Gemini, though it may just be because I'm used to refer to them as Double rather than Gemini.

Big surprise here that I'm throwing my hat in with this thread, haha, but I agree very much on reverting Luther's Falz name to his appropriate and canon moniker! While I absolutely do adore 'Luther the Fallen' in a vacuum, as it eludes to his inspiration being based off Lucifer (a fallen angel... Dark Falz Angel... ta-da!) it loses (pun unintended) the wonderfully deep connotations of his original moniker. There are things elaborated in Ep5 and Ep6 that further the meaning of the name 'Loser,' and only make it that much more impressive of Sega's forethought going into writing his character. As well, it illustrates that Luther is NOT Loser, which often gets lost on many doing the story. The host =/= the Falz.

That all said, from the JP site itself! 702c6cca-7482-4f90-b760-6bca9f4ed639-image.png

He was always meant to be named Loser as a Falz, so I hope it will be reconsidered to revert his name back to the intended one.

Likewise, I have quarrel with Gemini for two reasons, 1) Idola: Phantasy Star Saga already has a figure named Gemini and 2) Loser and Double being the only ones renamed feels like another inconsistency error.

@alasondria said in Change the Dark Falz's Names [Story Spoilers]:

As well, it illustrates that Luther is NOT Loser, which often gets lost on many doing the story. The host =/= the Falz.

But they ARE the same person, that's a thing even he states within the story, when inside Gemini. Luther is Loser and Loser is Luther, they're the same person.

As for the names themselves, I take it that they're written this way to work in what's going on with their JP names, where they're written in kanji but spoken differently. Elder's kanji basically means something along the lines of "huge body" so you get Elder the Gargantuan, Luther's can mean either "loser" or "defeated" so you get Luther the Fallen. Apprentice and Gemini are a bit weirder, Apprentice's kanji means something along the lines of "young person" and Vernal might seem strange, but looking into its definition it can be taken to mean youthful so it works out. Gemini's kanji however means "twins" which Duplicated doesn't quite fit and the first part of the name instead taking on that meaning, however the name makes more sense when you have the context of Episode 5.

Either ways, I don't think that's happening due to the voice recording already having happened and redoing it would cost them money they probably won't want to spend for something this minor.

@Kos said in Change the Dark Falz's Names [Story Spoilers]:

@alasondria said in Change the Dark Falz's Names [Story Spoilers]:

As well, it illustrates that Luther is NOT Loser, which often gets lost on many doing the story. The host =/= the Falz.

But they ARE the same person, that's a thing even he states within the story, when inside Gemini. Luther is Loser and Loser is Luther, they're the same person.

As for the names themselves, I take it that they're written this way to work in what's going on with their JP names, where they're written in kanji but spoken differently. Elder's kanji basically means something along the lines of "huge body" so you get Elder the Gargantuan, Luther's can mean either "loser" or "defeated" so you get Luther the Fallen. Apprentice and Gemini are a bit weirder, Apprentice's kanji means something along the lines of "young person" and Vernal might seem strange, but looking into its definition it can be taken to mean youthful so it works out. Gemini's kanji however means "twins" which Duplicated doesn't quite fit and the first part of the name instead taking on that meaning, however the name makes more sense when you have the context of Episode 5.

Either ways, I don't think that's happening due to the voice recording already having happened and redoing it would cost them money they probably won't want to spend for something this minor.

I doubt they'll revoice them, but it's worth a try to suggest it be done. If not that, then at the very least renaming the enemy name to their proper name (The names used during combat when you look at an enemy)

@Kos said in Change the Dark Falz's Names [Story Spoilers]:

But they ARE the same person, that's a thing even he states within the story, when inside Gemini. Luther is Loser and Loser is Luther, they're the same person.

As for the names themselves, I take it that they're written this way to work in what's going on with their JP names, where they're written in kanji but spoken differently. Elder's kanji basically means something along the lines of "huge body" so you get Elder the Gargantuan, Luther's can mean either "loser" or "defeated" so you get Luther the Fallen. Apprentice and Gemini are a bit weirder, Apprentice's kanji means something along the lines of "young person" and Vernal might seem strange, but looking into its definition it can be taken to mean youthful so it works out. Gemini's kanji however means "twins" which Duplicated doesn't quite fit and the first part of the name instead taking on that meaning, however the name makes more sense when you have the context of Episode 5.

Either ways, I don't think that's happening due to the voice recording already having happened and redoing it would cost them money they probably won't want to spend for something this minor.

They are not the same. In Ep3, Luther impresses upon the player and Matoi that the Falz can be molded into what the host's desires are, if the feelings are strong enough, because Photons are mutable and receptive to strong emotions. Remember that Elder only desired combat once it possesses Gettemhart. However, Luther does mention that, while possessed by Loser, he 'did not change,' because Luther is the original and ONLY host Loser has taken, therefore, there is little to muddle his feelings and the agenda he seeks to maintain. That being said, Loser originally should have worked to revive the Profound Darkness (as Luther again mentions in this scene) but because of Luther's strong emotions when succumbing to the Falz's influence, the original goal was thrown out in favour of Luther's desire to obtain omniscience.

There is further confirmation of this in Ep5 when Xiao and Xiera discuss the 'original personality' of Luther as they had met him in Omega and saw that he was starkly different from the Luther they knew in Oracle. They go even further to say Luther had BELIEVED he was in control of Loser's power, but it's asserted that wasn't the case, that he was Loser's puppet the entire time.

As well, there is an ENTIRE extra story arc dedicated to Yucreta and Aurora grappling with the issues of having people see them and only equate their faces to Apprentice, as they were each her host at a point. The game is always, always making a point of how the Falz =/= the host, even if people's feelings believe otherwise.

I know I'm getting off the tracks here, but I had to amend this.

@alasondria No, they are one and the same, even the game story makes a point of that. Seriously, even old Apprentice calls him by his falz name during the EP2 flashback.

"Luther: My my, it must be so difficult having your true self exposed like that, hm, [Apprentice]?"

"[Apprentice]: [Luther]... What does a loser like you want with me?"

And the JP text just to be sure:

"Luther: おやおや、ずいぶんと化けの皮を剥がされちゃって大変だねえ、【若人】?"

"[Apprentice: 【敗者】……負け犬が、何の用?"

He wouldn't be called this if he wasn't a Falz all along now, would he?

There is further confirmation of this in Ep5 when Xiao and Xiera discuss the 'original personality' of Luther as they had met him in Omega and saw that he was starkly different from the Luther they knew in Oracle. They go even further to say Luther had BELIEVED he was in control of Loser's power, but it's asserted that wasn't the case, that he was Loser's puppet the entire time.

And that same chapter also makes it clear it's only speculation on their part and not confirmation. Luther himself even states in a scene before this that there's only one "Luther" and any version of him are the same.

@Kos I understand what you're saying, but the point of Apprentice calling him [Loser] in this scene is precisely because Luther at this point is already possessed by Loser and she recognizes him as a Falz, which is why she also implies he's betraying them by consorting with ARKS, to which he says that he isn't and that both Falz and ARKS are merely pawns for his agenda. Luther has been possessed by Loser since before ARKS's conception; however, even though we have no specific date for it, we know he wasn't corrupted during the Photoner era and Xion makes a point of it in Ep2 to remind the PC that he was not always corrupted by a Falz and that he was 'human once too.'

However we've gotten off topic, and I believe we should agree to disagree. I still would like to see Loser's name reverted along with Double's.

Honestly I just wish he was called [Loser] in the boss title because I think it would help prevent spoiling PSO2 newbies about Luther. Granted, it's kinda obvious anyway, but it's one thing I thought was interesting.

@ColonD said in Change the Dark Falz's Names [Story Spoilers]:

Honestly I just wish he was called [Loser] in the boss title because I think it would help prevent spoiling PSO2 newbies about Luther. Granted, it's kinda obvious anyway, but it's one thing I thought was interesting.

Another valid point here, yes.

Wait till you figure out what they renamed the profound darkness to.

@UnsoundSky47559 said in Change the Dark Falz's Names [Story Spoilers]:

Wait till you figure out what they renamed the profound darkness to.

But they didn't rename it at all.

@UnsoundSky47559 said in Change the Dark Falz's Names [Story Spoilers]:

Wait till you figure out what they renamed the profound darkness to.

Haven't reached that far, so I wouldn't know yet. I'm hoping it's kept to what it should be.