Removing Height Restrictions

@MoldyAsp33874 said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@Anarchy-Marine No. You can't just say to accept it- there's no use justifying it. There isn't any single way to justify it. It is not a change due to laws- or ratings- or consumer outrage. It's not a change due to a new platform- a new audience. It is a pointless change and as the players- we deserve more than anyone else to be given a reason for it. And if they're incapable of providing a reason... as they are.. then even moreso we deserve to be able to change it. We are not altering the game and playing dev here- we are asking for an experience closer to what was promised to us. Something as close to All The Content that is legally possible to bring(We understand about licensing issues with upcoming banners..)- and the PSO2 JP version brought to the west as true to itself as it can be.

Well you clearly you didn't bother to read my logical reasoning as to why, or just didn't want to accept the truth. Companies have to be careful in the U.S. because of those who would cancel the game, due to perceived issues, including the loli issue I mentioned. Even if people aren't planning to make their characters look like little girls, someone will always be offended by it somewhere. Look to Twitter for a good example for the insane nature of mankind's saddest aspect in recent history, cancel culture. Or Australia politicians trying to ban Anime,on the grounds that it promotes certain morally questionable things. You must be living under a rock, not to understand where companies would see this, and possibly decide that its safer just to do a minor censor. Your lucky they took into account that censoring too much was wrong, and stopped where they did. It's not your livelihood at stake, so you simply don't care.

@ZeeHero9271 said in Removing Height Restrictions:

It is true that Japanese culture has very different limits on what is considered decent or indecent for clothing and relations, but that has zero bearing on physical height.

It does when you add skimpy or lewd clothing into the mix, which this game has an abundance of, which is why I said the other option was to censor the cloths but leave the height, which thankfully they didn't do. One of the outfits is literally just bubbles covering the important parts. I personally don't mind short characters, wearing those outfits, but someone, somewhere would somehow get offended by it. And if you were running any company, in this day and age, you have to take all aspects of business into account. It's a balancing act on a tightrope.

@Alineah Are there any heavily skimpy, or almost nude outfits? This is without mods mind you, as I know some on PC love to, and understandably, mod their entire games library.

@Anarchy-Marine lol, a short woman who has normal proportions for her body in skimpy clothing is no different from one who is normal height.

Millions of real adult women are 5 feet tall or even below.

@Anarchy-Marine said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@Zizel said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@Anarchy-Marine said in Removing Height Restrictions:

Well, if I had to guess, it would be the same reason Tera Online censored the outfits of the North American releases outfits of the Elin.

This actually did not happen. The only outfit that got changed for the Elin was their starting inner wear, no other costumes for them have been changed or censored.

Also the height difference is very noticeable otherwise people wouldn't be complaining about it.

The midrift of the US version on several of the outfits were removed, the outfits themselves, including many of the swimsuits were censored as well, the company cited an issue with western audiences not being used to those types of characters in skimpy outfits running around. This information can be proved by comparing the Jappanese version, with the western version, and several searches on your preferred search engine. You clearly haven't seen how bad cancel culture has gotten for them to make those choices.

Okay hear me out- Devs of Tera literally admitted that Elins saved them from going bankrupt. The game was struggling before their addition- and when they came to be and the premium cosmetics that came with them- it put Tera on the map and saved the entire game. This is fact- you can use the same search engine to find such quotes- though navigation of JP language might make it easier.

Basically- lewd sells. No one is arguing that.
Now find me somewhere besides a garbage thread on a site like Resetera(which you likely cannot even find on there-) where NA was pushing against Elins when Tera was being localized. Sure some people might not care if censorship did or did not happen. But I guarantee there was no angry mob of puritans/SJWs/feminists at the gate threatening to burn down the headquarters if they released Elins as they are in other countries. Why?.. Well- for one... and probably the main reason- Tera is already a pretty niche game. Just look at the artwork for said game and its style surrounding cute characters. You know what you're signing up for before you play the game.

And while we're talking Niche- PSO2 is FAR... FAR.... more niche than Tera is. If you are ever going to have a problem with how any one character is portrayed in a video game- you're not going to touch PSO2 with a ten-foot pole. This game is NOT for people with fragile sensibilities. You are not playing this game if you're easily offended. You're not going to punch your screen everytime you see someone pole dancing or doing a crabwalk with an accessory mimicking a huge dick. And why would you?.. There's so many other games you could play that don't let you go into the level of detail and customization PSO2 does. People who PLAY this game- PLAY for the customization. They spend money to CUSTOMIZE... It's how the game supports itself- It is why people play it. So any changes to that feature is more than just a drop in the ocean. It is arguably the very core of the experience. It is the origin of it's memes and marketing. It is what everyone looks forward to in each update. It's what people spend their time grinding for- often even before their own progressive equipment..

So I'll let you imagine this alternate history.
What if one day- SEGA comes out with a notice. "We have listened to the community over certain changes and we have decided to revert the change we made regarding the minimum height-" ... Imagine how much fanfare this would gather. Imagine how much support of people returning to the game from JP- or getting into the game because they appreciate that Sega has some backbone to acknowledge they made a mistake- and that they DO listen to their fans.. Imagine how many twitter accounts- streamers would talk about it. The value in such free marketing from the influx of support would be astounding. I don't think SEGA was expecting the game to do anywhere near this well- and the only thing holding it back is a rough launch and satisfying the chunk of playerbase that is on the edge of spending or not- fearful of future censorship given that the game has already been changed in cosmetic ways- like myself. I know i'm not the only one who is waiting to see whether they stay or go- spend or don't spend. Me and others want to hear Segas response and see if the NA support team can stand against JPs support team of 8 strong years.

@Anarchy-Marine said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@MoldyAsp33874 said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@Anarchy-Marine No. You can't just say to accept it- there's no use justifying it. There isn't any single way to justify it. It is not a change due to laws- or ratings- or consumer outrage. It's not a change due to a new platform- a new audience. It is a pointless change and as the players- we deserve more than anyone else to be given a reason for it. And if they're incapable of providing a reason... as they are.. then even moreso we deserve to be able to change it. We are not altering the game and playing dev here- we are asking for an experience closer to what was promised to us. Something as close to All The Content that is legally possible to bring(We understand about licensing issues with upcoming banners..)- and the PSO2 JP version brought to the west as true to itself as it can be.

Well you clearly you didn't bother to read my logical reasoning as to why, or just didn't want to accept the truth. Companies have to be careful in the U.S. because of those who would cancel the game, due to perceived issues, including the lolicon issue I mentioned. Even if people aren't planning to make their characters look like little girls, someone will always be offended by it somewhere. Look to Twitter for a good example for the insane nature of mankind's saddest aspect in recent history, cancel culture. Or Australia politicians trying to ban Anime,on the grounds that it promotes certain morally questionable things. You must be living under a rock, not to understand where companies would see this, and possibly decide that its safer just to do a minor censor. Your lucky they took into account that censoring too much was wrong, and stopped where they did. It's not your livelihood at stake, so you simply don't care.

No- you are overblowing what cancel culture is. It's not everywhere- and it's not as big as you're implying. And in regards to PSO2 it is non-existent.

@ZeeHero9271 said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@Anarchy-Marine lol, a short woman who has normal proportions for her body in skimpy clothing is no different from one who is normal height.

Millions of real adult women are 5 feet tall or even below.

Ok, right, but take into account all of the players, that are into Anime, that want to make a Loli. There are entire online communities formed around such a thing. Your arguing Apple's for oranges here, and aren't paying anynattention to the large demographic of players that do things for sh*** and giggles. Something anyone running a company would have to take into account. Sega knows it's user base. The fact skimpy outfits are in the scratch tickets commonly, and the fact they sell for millions of mesta on the market after people bought up ticket after ticket, are telling enough.

Your only defense is proportioned women, but that's a straw man argument, to the reality that is anime culture, vs cancel culture. The two often but heads.

@MoldyAsp33874 I'm not overblowing anything, considering all that's happened in the last two weeks alone. Those not living under a rock would have seen the hypocrisy of every social stance in those two weeks, and the direction the public opinion is slowly moving. I concisely explained something, that from a business standpoint, makes perfect sense, but you refuse to see it. That's not on me, or SEGA, (while I don't speak for the company) but it instead, falls on you. You aren't looking at tahe logical reasons as to the how's and why's of the issue, because literally a foot of height in either direction was taken away. How petty do you have to be? Censorship would be every character in game, forced to wear a standard outfit, with zero skimp, zero customization, and the standard outfit being a business suit. You don't know what true censorship is, and it astounds me.

@Anarchy-Marine said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@Zizel said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@Anarchy-Marine said in Removing Height Restrictions:

Well, if I had to guess, it would be the same reason Tera Online censored the outfits of the North American releases outfits of the Elin.

This actually did not happen. The only outfit that got changed for the Elin was their starting inner wear, no other costumes for them have been changed or censored.

Also the height difference is very noticeable otherwise people wouldn't be complaining about it.

The midrift of the US version on several of the outfits were removed, the outfits themselves, including many of the swimsuits were censored as well, the company cited an issue with western audiences not being used to those types of characters in skimpy outfits running around. This information can be proved by comparing the Jappanese version, with the western version, and several searches on your preferred search engine. You clearly haven't seen how bad cancel culture has gotten for them to make those choices.

Again, not as bad as your making it out to be and no actual cash shop costumes were changed and censored like you say they were.

What was changed on the Elin were a few select fashion coupon costumes that can be previewed on the character creator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vSIbm3jEx4

As you mentioned the changes are changing the panties into shorts and hiding midriffs, however the changes are just for these select few costumes. Swimsuits and cash shop costumes were not changed for the Elin. Also the JP server for Tera is IP blocked.

In the end I still don't agree with any kind of censorship but your argument is just not an acceptable one. Passive aggressively telling people to suck it up and deal with it doesn't invalidate their opinions. The issue here is the double standard SEGA has on the topic. We can't make our characters below a certain height but the Aux's are exempt from that? Was it really the ESRB even though we have a statement from them saying thats not the case? And since we are on the topic of double standards, if Tera was aggressively censoring Elin as you claim the devilicious costume would have never came to the NA server, but it did and its still obtainable to this day on the market.

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But in the end thats besides the point as we are not talking about obscene costumes, we are talking about character height. The change itself has already impacted people negatively by preventing them from importing their characters specs from the JP server for one. The Height restriction wasn't implemented with any good reasoning behind it, they just did it for the sake of doing it. What really gets me is on the website they praise and comment the character creator for being so in depth and open, as if its one of the top gimmics to PSO2, which it is, but you can't really do that and then force a restriction upon us. Its like buying a fancy sports car and the dealer telling you it goes "Really fast in 3rd gear, but your not allowed to go into 3rd gear ever"

Like how do you expect people not to be bothered by that? We waited 8 years for an NA release and now they are slipping all these little changes no one asked for and for no reason. If they had just left it well enough alone I could look past all the other problems this server has but they didn't, and people have a right to be bothered by that and to speak out against it.

@Anarchy-Marine said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@MoldyAsp33874 I'm not overblowing anything, considering all that's happened in the last two weeks alone. Those not living under a rock would have seen the hypocrisy of every social stance in those two weeks, and the direction the public opinion is slowly moving. I concisely explained something, that from a business standpoint, makes perfect sense, but you refuse to see it. That's not on me, or SEGA, (while I don't speak for the company) but it instead, falls on you. You aren't looking at tahe logical reasons as to the how's and why's of the issue, because literally a foot of height in either direction was taken away. How petty do you have to be? Censorship would be every character in game, forced to wear a standard outfit, with zero skimp, zero customization, and the standard outfit being a business suit. You don't know what true censorship is, and it astounds me.

What is happening now has nothing to do with cancel culture. It also has nothing to do with video games.

I don't think you understand what you are talking about.

You really shouldn't keep using the term "straw man argument" when you don't seem to understand it's meaning. I'm not going to start a big rant about this- since giving these outside examples is going to swerve off topic and derail this thread very quickly. But there is no relevance to be had there. Cancel culture in the game industry is very very different than what you seem to be implying-.. It's also a very exclusive group- and the same each time- and that group has dissolved over the recent years anyway. That same group has no f---ing idea what the phantasy star universe even is as well.. This game doesn't have a chance to be controversial with that group- literally the only reason it could possibly have controversy is this thread right here- of people who want it to closer to the original game.. If there were no changes- you wouldn't have heard a peep out of anyone regarding censorship. There would be no boycotts(which is the prime directive of true cancel culture)- there would be no digging up of developer names and finding someone specific to blame- attempts to ruin their lives- get them fired- oust their friends and family. Ravenous- horrible people that scream and cry over fictional entertainment they do not even consume that- until not too long ago- only NA developers listened to. And for the most part- still only NA teams seem to care- But also for a while... haven't been active in light of other things. NA team created this controversy themselves and it is not helping them in any way. It is not creating the marketing they want- the fake controversy is only damaging them due to f2p format of the game.

Simple answer when your fans want something to be changed back- you're not in danger of anyone disagreeing with the original experience- and the controversy your change caused is not giving you more money: Listen to your community- grab the support and devoted fans who will spend money on your game.

From a business stand-point this is a no brainer change. There is zero reasoning from a business standpoint to have made the change in the first place. They said it was for an ESRB rating- ESRB rejects this possibility. They covered their bases on a theory rather than looking into further into the ratings board- or they're lying and there is someone on the team that just hates short people in video games.

As for "True Censorship" - The hell are you even talking about. Censorship is Censorship. If you're going to be against it- you can't just draw a line at light censorship. Also this isn't light censorship- this is a foot on auxiliarys- half a foot of minimum height of every character in the game- whether you care or don't care. Your character- that you PLAY. has had options removed. You can ignore the skimpy outfits- doesn't matter- your freedom has been limited since the very beginning even if you never planned to use cosmetic items.

@MoldyAsp33874 While I agree the game is niche,that doesnt mean someone couldn't easily form a hate mob over something so stupid. If you havent been living under a rock, you'd know it's happened before, and it can definitely happen again. But you, and people like you are being so petty, that you refuse to see the possibility of it happening, because you simply don't want to. I'm done trying to explain logical reasoning, as none of you clearly wanted an answer as to the why, you only wanted an excuse to be pissed off.

@MoldyAsp33874 said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@MoldyAsp33874 I'm not going to start a big rant about this- since giving these outside examples is going to swerve off topic and derail this thread very quickly.

@MoldyAsp33874 They havent disolved, they only moved onto other things to be offended by, such as Anime itself. They will be back for games in no time, when they realise they are limited on that front. But go on believe it's unrelated to reducing how small you can make a character.

I also want to caution everyone in this thread that Anarchy Marine is most likely trying to provoke a drama war so the mods will step in and delete this thread, thus wiping away the vast majority of feedback and complaints surrounding the issue. Please do not fall for it. Continue to voice your opinions respectively and in a civil manner. The last thing we want is to give anyone a reason to erase this thread.

@Anarchy-Marine said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@MoldyAsp33874 While I agree the game is niche,that doesnt mean someone couldn't easily form a hate mob over something so stupid. If you havent been living under a rock, you'd know it's happened before, and it can definitely happen again. But you, and people like you are being so petty, that you refuse to see the possibility of it happening, because you simply don't want to. I'm done trying to explain logical reasoning, as none of you clearly wanted an answer as to the why, you only wanted an excuse to be pissed off.

Wrong. You are overblowing things. This game can not. Will not. Even if the game literally had a 5 minute full frontal nudity hardcore sex scene like the latest TLOU2 game has- would not create a hate mob.

It's an anime game. It is far from mainstream- it has a different consumer base than the people who give a damn about things like that. You really don't understand this but I also can't prove it to you. But just try to understand- look back at all the anime games. Find which ones created hate mobs.

Go back through your clearly long research into game industry mobbing and find which games caused outrage- and you'll see what they all have in common- that PSO2 absolutely does not have- and will not ever have.

So i'll just leave you with the facts. You. Are. Wrong.

@Zizel said in Removing Height Restrictions:

I also want to caution everyone in this thread that Anarchy Marine is most likely trying to provoke a drama war so the mods will step in and delete this thread, thus wiping away the vast majority of feedback and complaints surrounding the issue. Please do not fall for it. Continue to voice your opinions respectively and in a civil manner. The last thing we want is to give anyone a reason to erase this thread.

It does seem like bait at this point. Well- i'll just ignore them. Not much of what they're saying makes any sense anyway.