Removing Height Restrictions

@Mattwo7 I thought the context of discussion was Sega's NA release of PSO2.

Edit: right, dead art, nvm. Have a good onedon't need to be a dick I guess

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@Stretcharach Disregard previous post, I made a misread, that was my mistake. I was confusing what you said for an actual point as I thought you said "of" not "on". It seems even in spite of it all I gave you too much credit.

Either way, I did admit I was wrong, just not in the way you had assumed. Nice try discrediting me though, that was a fair blow for all it was worth, which isn't much.

JP, Cero D is basically Mature to Adult 18+ rating. Which PSO2 Episode 6 is, and had been since Episode 4.

NA, we dropped M for Mature to Rated T for Teen. People can say "Online is never rated", but if you look at Terms of Service agreement on PSO2, any type of pornography/nudity/child pornography is forbidden, which kind of makes the accessibility from JP is far more restricted in NA instead.

We had several threads locked down by one person (troll) who kept calling height restriction removal request pedo bait and had multiple clashes with those who wanted restrictions off. I would say that even though GMs locked it due to heated discussions, there might have been other reasons locking it too.

I dont mind having height restrictions nor mind if it's removed, but getting height restrictions removed can also mean removal for many adult/lewd outfits too, or even boob pad accessory.

Not to mention, there IS a costume to make yourself look like Afin/Eucretia child costume which makes you smaller than 135 but with adult head. I wonder if they'll add that in at least as a joke costume.

I think what we need at this point is some transparency from SEGA regarding the reasons for the decision to limit the height of our characters. We can speculate all we want about why the restrictions should or shouldn't exist, what effects it might have on the game if the restrictions are lifted, or to what ends this form of censorship will go, but we shouldn't expect SEGA to review their decisions by continuously bashing the company.

If anything, what we need right now is constructive criticism on the handling of PSO2 (and not needlessly comparing it to other games), and building a better relationship with the team in charge of communicating these kinds of situations with the SEGA team in Japan.

@J1 They already said it was out of fear for the ESRB rating. A GM confirmed it in this thread a few times that was the reason.

In the end the entire issue isn't the height of the characters its certain provocative costumes. the devs thought he best way to deal with costumes that make your character more revealing was to limit and mess with the height in the character creator, but that wasn't the way to deal with it at all. If the issue is the costume then change the costume. Its like having a cracked hubcap on a car tire and then going out and buy a completely new tire. It was a bad decision and it effected more people negatively then it did at actually solving the problem.

Also this thread has been nothing but constructive, the GM's seem to have the topic on watch and are supposedly sharing it with Devs. The community has voiced what they wanted but so far have gotten nothing but silence from the dev's on the issue so a little agitation is to be expected. But in terms of actual civility its been fine.

@J1 Of course I don't think anyone really believes it's anything to do with the ESRB rating as not only does FFXIV have Lalafel but PSO2 has auxiliaries as myself and others keep pointing out.

I don't know why the GMs would lie to us like that, they seemed like legitimately nice people but I've seen it happen before:

when the Chaotic TCG was failing after TCDigital lost their lawsuit to 4kids, one of the forum moderators who was just the nicest guy continued to insist everything was fine. A couple years ago we were promised a reboot and last year another moderator kept promising news but then claiming it had been pushed back, then he got a convenient excuse when [current global pandemic] happened. Back in May, the Franchise's owner still promised there'd be announcement this year in spite of that though.

It could be that Sega made them lie, I've seen that happen before with Zippcast and shortly before it shut down due to the owner being a malignant narcissist, he actually tried to push that on the moderator. There is a saying he must not have been familar with: Don't shoot the messenger. As much as he was unfamiliar with "trust is earned, not given."

Inb4 someone with no reading comprehension skills strawmans me saying I'm claiming the people at Sega are narcissists even though I'm not. (it'd be an easy enough claim to make but I have no evidence so I couldn't say with any degree of certainty if they are or aren't, even if CEO is the career with the highest amount of them)

@Zizel said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@J1 They already said it was out of fear for the ESRB rating. A GM confirmed it in this thread a few times that was the reason.

In the end the entire issue isn't the height of the characters its certain provocative costumes. the devs thought he best way to deal with costumes that make your character more revealing was to limit and mess with the height in the character creator, but that wasn't the way to deal with it at all. If the issue is the costume then change the costume. Its like having a cracked hubcap on a car tire and then going out and buy a completely new tire. It was a bad decision and it effected more people negatively then it did at actually solving the problem.

The contradiction with it all is

  1. Characters with these heights still exist ingame.
  2. Player can make even MORE problematic characters via Auxiliaries which can be less than 3 feet tall or around 91 cm in NA.
  3. This 2015-2016 survey , with an easy breakdown here, shows that NA's min height hits the United States hits about the 10th percentile mark for women. This means that around 10 in every 100 women cannot accurately recreate their adult height in PSO2. That's kind of ridiculous considering this decision was intentional and puts out an uncomfortable message from Sega as a result, especially considering that while the US's lower statistical height is this, many other countries have much lower ones such as Japan itself.

For reference:

Ingame min height JP: 139 cm, 4ft 6.7 inches

Auxiliary min height JP: 84 cm, 2ft 0.07 inches

Ingame min height NA: 153 cm, 5ft 0.2 inches

Auxiliary min height NA: 91 cm, 2ft 11.83 inches

US 10th percentile height: 152.502 cm, 5ft 0.04 inches

US 1st percentile height: 144.399, 4ft 8.85 inches

US 2015-2016 height data breakdown: https://dqydj.com/height-percentile-calculator-for-men-and-women/

US 2015-2016 height data source: https://wwwn.cdc.gov/nchs/nhanes/continuousnhanes/default.aspx?BeginYear=2015

@2B said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@Rumi7364 said in Removing Height Restrictions:

Thing I don't understand about this is like why is short characters bad to begin with, we have plenty of JRPGs that has short characters in them and they are still rated Teen.

Well, on the consumer side of things, most players don't really 'see' the reason why there should be restrictions. Any restrictions on players are usually deemed to be bad, unnecessary, etc., but you have to pretty much look at the context of the situation. JP games, companies, anime (basically anything JP related) is typically heavily scrutinized by westerners. Sure, you might like playing as Hatsune Miku running around in a swimsuit bikini, but 90% of Americans don't play PSO2 and have no idea about the contents of what is in the game.

FF14 had to censor some outfits as well as the player model itself. Existing rounded-out ass in the game was replaced with flat shapes.

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Majority of players and gamers don't really agree with the censorships, but businesses are constantly hammered with lawsuits, angry parents and news media trying to tear them down.

Look at this outfit for example:

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This outfit in itself could raise some controversy. Sure, maybe you think that this is supposed to be an 18+ rated game, but that doesn't matter. It matters that if the news media thinks SEGA lets you make 4 foot characters with flat chests (or anything in that matter), that it could be portrayed as SEGA promoting or enabling sexualzing children in a 18+ game. This isn't a problem in Japan because Japan doesn't share western cultures or views and NA isn't short of SJW's.

Maybe you're going to argue well X game allows it so I dunno why SEGA doesn't. SEGA is a huge known publisher. People have higher standards for this company and SEGA also markets towards kids (Sonic, derp). This is a highly controversial topic and is complicated, but the main point is to understand the context of the situation instead of being simple minded about it and claiming how SEGA is unfair to its community for restricting some features. It's way more complicated than just 'they took it out because i dunno why'.

I honestly can't imagine living in a country where these kinds of costumes would be controversial. Do these people leave their houses and/or bubble? We're living in the most degenerate time and culture imaginable; in the US, in New York, you can literally leave your apartment without a shirt, showing fully-exposed breasts and nipples as an adult female (also as an adult male). This outfit is a step -up- from that.

And again, even if "lewd" (quotes, because nothing that I have seen would constitute actual lewdness in the modern society in this game) costumes exist, why should people that are under the minimum height available in-game not be able to make an accurate representation of themselves?

NA needs to say whether they will change this- knowing it will not effect ESRB rating and also regain a lot of support from the fans that are angry about it.(I'm waiting to spend money but don't like supporting watered down products- especially when JP is even easier to get into than the botched NA launch of this title.)

It's about time they just made it clear. Is it possible to revert the change? Or are we wasting our time and everything is falling on deaf ears?.. The GM gave hope with a possible poll- but I wonder if they thought that would just pacify us rather than make us more hopeful and vocal about our hopes.

Someone needs to answer the question- will future costumes will be censored even with the height change?..
Can the height be reverted- and if so.. If it's reverted would costumes that normally wouldn't be censored- then need to be censored?

Because you can't have both is one thing- but having the height change AND censored costumes is just... why even play and support the game whose biggest money maker is cosmetics- then remove so much customization from that? What is even the point?

@Mattwo7 said in Removing Height Restrictions:

isregard previous post, I made a misread, that was my mistake. I was confusing what you said for an actual point as I thought you said "of" not "on". It seems eve

I don't make assumptions.

@Stretcharach said in Removing Height Restrictions:

I don't make assumptions.

You don't seem to understand what the word "misread" means either. This is all besides the point and off-topic though.

well this game was originally rated M, BnS has been getting away with it with the lyns without a problem, you also have the very short auxiliaries. That being said, there's more questions to be said on why it was restricted rather than unrestricted, the game was obviously made without the restrictions. People should have the freedom to make their characters as short as they wish as the game physically allows it.

I dont need excuses on to why it should be removed, it shouldn't exist in the first place, censorship/removal of content is something im always against.

@Mattwo7 Tbh I didn't see a need to interpret it at all since I don't care and never got a chance to see your deleted post. I was just saying I don't assume things. I'll stop bugging you now though.

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