I feel the biggest problem with citing the law on this, is that the sexualization in this game through outfits and emotes, does not get to be considered as even softcore porn in legal terms. I personally consider it as such but it's a personal opinion, and one I have spoken about repeatedly. So if even the adult characters are not doing any kind of porn from a legal standpoint, then the child-like ones aren't doing it either. So if I were against the removal of the height restriction, what I would be using to defend my point is my own perception on morals and values instead of citing laws that won't apply here no matter what.

I said it before and I will say it now. The best way a pro censor can oppose the anti censors, is to base their reasons on their own views of morality instead of the law. So they could say they support censoring because they themselves do not want to see people sexualixing what THEY perceive as children. I feel it's a much defendable stance than citing the law, and it stands on much more solid ground. Past that, if there's nothing else to add to the discussion, they can go their merry way without having to resort to calling everyone the P word nor trying to silence others. Which is in my list, a quite shameful thing to do.

Silencing an opinion is the murder of justice.

@ZorokiHanuke True and with the recent controversy of Netflix cuties...

If that movie gets to be played in cinemas then PSO2 is FAR from doing anything indecent.

@SleeprunnerInc I just checked that stuff. The problem there was not the movie itself, since it's about the problem with sexualization, how bad it is, and how to solve it. The issue brought up was that the poster Netflix used to advertise this movie out of France posed the minors involved wearing adult like clothing and posing in adult like ways.

Here's the NY Times article about it

Of note:

The complaints — posted in part by followers of the QAnon conspiracy theory — may have come as a surprise to some, given that “Cuties,” the debut feature by Maïmouna Doucouré, has been praised for questioning how society and social media pressure young children into acting in sexually explicit ways. Doucouré was named best director in the world cinema category at this year’s Sundance Film Festival and received a special mention at this year’s Berlinale festival in Germany.

It was as if a church announced a religious service using Satan posing proudly as their theme picture...

So I've pretty much stopped playing. But I'm glad t he GMs have chimed in that they're still looking into this. I hope things get reverted because I'd jump back in for sure.

@Lintaur I'm starting to feel this can go both ways, as Sega tests the waters to see if reverting the restriction will or will not have any major PR consequences. Of course, some people may come to the game because of it, others may leave. But it's a mater of how the whole transition may look. I still feel the restriction will stay, but based on how similar stuff has been removed on other games that originally had it, it seems nothing is written in stone.

@ZorokiHanuke said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@Lintaur I'm starting to feel this can go both ways, as Sega tests the waters to see if reverting the restriction will or will not have any major PR consequences. Of course, some people may come to the game because of it, others may leave. But it's a mater of how the whole transition may look. I still feel the restriction will stay, but based on how similar stuff has been removed on other games that originally had it, it seems nothing is written in stone.

sadly, with how things have gone on the steam side of things i am quite certain that there's no less than 8 people who would gladly pounce at the opportunity to MAKE it a PR problem for sega.

i don't want to argue about this anymore. after over 2 weeks of it on steam with moderators doing nothing to even try helping with the situation it's just depressing to deal with and feels completely futile to keep trying.

we send numerous reports, we keep arguing and complaining...we try to speak to the moderators directly...all silence on the moderator side (the rampant and blatant community rules/guideline violations mean nothing with these guys) and a lost cause on the argument side.

and these guys are clearly very good at what they've been doing over there and have no intention of stopping or slowing down at any point.

just feels pointless to keep arguing about this censorship at this point and that's likely part of their goal. to just silence all who oppose or criticize it without exception.

I wish they remove this stupid height restriction. When I first heard about it before it came out on PC I thought it was a joke.

@treos100 There will always be people simply looking for a way to have fun by insulting others. It's why we all must learn to not be triggered by these individuals. This is what causes threads to explode with bickering and insults. Knowing this isn't on the GMs (much less on Steam ones who we don't see too often anyway), it's up to the people to practice self moderation and ample tolerance against attacks from others who don't really want to contribute in a civil way. This, I say to both sides.

@ZorokiHanuke said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@treos100 There will always be people simply looking for a way to have fun by insulting others. It's why we all must learn to not be triggered by these individuals. This is what causes threads to explode with bickering and insults. Knowing this isn't on the GMs (much less on Steam ones who we don't see too often anyway), it's up to the people to practice self moderation and ample tolerance against attacks from others who don't really want to contribute in a civil way. This, I say to both sides.

Its best just to let it die... No debate no arguments .. Its done

@EternalChronicles This would have ended quicker if the dev team simply stated something. Anything. A simple "No, we have no plans to change these limits." Something that may take 3 minutes to write, would have ended MOST of the arguing and debate. Yes, you would have seen pockets of resistance, but everyone would counter with "Because the dev said no", and more people would have let it die.

But that silence is what empowered all this fire on both sides, and pitted player against player. So instead of asking for silence, I ask for official statements instead. Not just a petition to remove the limitation or not, but a petition for an official stance everyone can see and read. That's what would allow this all to let it die, and it's a request I believe people on both sides would agree with, to end it right then and there.

Also i'd leave the Steam Forums out of this, the place may as well be a fanmade forum given that those forums arent moderated by the PSO2 Team @treos100 .

The Steam Forums are moderated by Sega Europe who have no say on the ingame content and arent actively involved in the game's management other than setting up the store page and uploading the game client.

@treos100

Really activates the almonds... Why is it never surprising to find these sort of posts from these "people"

@plamplight I believe though, that statement holds weight however. If we all recall, there are many times where politicians accuse violent or sexual video games/content of producing violent people or sexual people in the real world. However, studies have found that games and content do not produce violent or sexual people. Rather it doesn't do anything, while in some cases it seems to have the opposite effect, as there was a notable decrees in violent tendencies or sexual drive in the people that consume those content.

If we want to bring up an argument that having a short characters makes one a pedophile who will act against a real child in real life, then we must also go back again to the argument that video games produces the type of people it contains/display. E.G violent games produces violent people. So in a way, him saying that, is equivalent to someone saying "Just because I like shooting or beheading virtual people, I would never do it to someone in real life." Is what I feel.

Now in the Spirit of the topic, while I exclusively lean to tall characters, I do not mind seeing short people like Stratos or Io. I sympathize with people who wish to be short so I cast my vote to removal of restrictions. To that end, I would also like it if content, both story and cosmetics, would not be removed from JP as they make their way over. If possible, please also do not alter the cosmetics.

@plamplight Cause their logic makes sense?

I mean they are a sensible person to the point where they had to explicitly explain that what they do online or in a videogame does not reflect on their actual person IRL.

We have all played games where you do things you would not do IRL.

Games like GTA where you love to shoot people, games where you deal drugs, games where you mow down thousands of people and it has made you feel good.

But doing that IRL? I doubt even a single one of us here presently would feel good about that.

Some games like The hunter: call of the wild can even help people learn about what it takes to be a hunter and promote the good side of it.

@ナラ said in Removing Height Restrictions:

@plamplight I believe though, that statement holds weight however. If we all recall, there are many times where politicians accuse violent or sexual video games/content of producing violent people or sexual people in the real world. However, studies have found that games and content do not produce violent or sexual people. Rather it doesn't do anything, while in some cases it seems to have the opposite effect, as there was a notable decrees in violent tendencies or sexual drive in the people that consume those content.

If we want to bring up an argument that having a short characters makes one a pedophile who will act against a real child in real life, then we must also go back again to the argument that video games produces the type of people it contains/display. E.G violent games produces violent people. So in a way, him saying that, is equivalent to someone saying "Just because I like shooting or beheading virtual people, I would never do it to someone in real life." Is what I feel.

Now in the Spirit of the topic, while I exclusively lean to tall characters, I do not mind seeing short people like Stratos or Io. I sympathize with people who wish to be short so I cast my vote to removal of restrictions. To that end, I would also like it if content, both story and cosmetics, would not be removed from JP as they make their way over. If possible, please also do not alter the cosmetics.

"So in a way, him saying that, is equivalent to someone saying "Just because I like shooting or beheading virtual people, I would never do it to someone in real life." Is what I feel."

that is precisely what my point was and is what my stance has always been regarding video games and works of fiction in general.

granted some might, i would like to beleive that the majority of people who play video games and use them for entertainment and/or escapism don't go around emulating what they did in the game irl.