A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.

@Ace said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

@metafalica1

Pretty sure in Japan Super hard was the highest and Extremely Hard was reserved for UQ's

I don't know what the Japanese servers have, but it's just bad design to have a level cap in which you don't have the content to support. Without the Extremely Hard difficulty or something to fit in level 75, you literally have an entire tier of content missing between Super Hard and Ultimate right now.

@Spectra-Saberon said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

@WillfulChart930 What are the prices like on the other ships?

@Ace said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

The economy is bad on ship 3 cause the population is more than likely lower than Ship 1 & 2

I made this point in a similar topic on the Suggestions forum. They're not really that different. At least, not for the newer items. Allow me to demonstrate using the first "Hot Prize" on the Prize List menu for the three present AC scratches and the FUN scratch:

Source Item Ship 1 Price Ship 3 Price
AC Scratch - Chevalier Line Daybreakers Suit 3,045,000 2,089,500
AC Scratch - SEGA Legacy Riley Replica [Ou] 245,347 211,050
AC Scratch - Military Line Combat Jacket [Ou] 524,998 526,050
FUN Scratch - June 2020 Part 3 Youngest Naura Sister Hair 69,090 64,050

As you can see, very comparable! It just so happened that for this selection Ship 3 is marginally lower.

While checking I noticed the Top Sellers listings have a lot of overlap as well with 5 of the items on the first page of 6 being shared:

Item Ship 1 Price Ship 3 Price
452: Chair Dance 13,650,000 16,464,000
Armeure Hair 15,200,000 26,775,000
Nemesis Shooter 20,865,000 21,525,000
Nemesis Sage 13,650,000 14,790,000
Nemesis Cougar 25,200,000 26,250,000

A little higher on Ship 3 this time, but nothing serious. Really the Armeure Hair is the exception rather than the rule.

This is a classic situation of not knowing the other side. Ship 3 players may look at the Chair Dance price and think "16 million? Crazy! I bet it's only 3 million on Ship 1!" Sorry, nope. Prices are in the same ballpark across the board.

Now where things really differ is pretty much any content that stopped being distributed prior to PC launch. Ship 3 by virtue of having a smaller portion of Xbox One players generated much less of this content and it clearly shows in the pricing.

Here's a randomly-picked probably-valuable item from the first and last FUN and AC scratch sets prior to PC launch, all of which I picked before checking the numbers:

Source Item Ship 1 Price Ship 3 Price
AC Scratch - Crimson Dawn 167: Space Jump 14,595,000 25,936,000
AC Scratch - Recruit Line Evolution Device: Lynx 5,249,997 14,700,000
FUN Scratch - May 2020 Part 2 Oriental Theme B 2,145,150 5,250,000
FUN Scratch - March 2020 PSO2 Main Theme 125,000 1,000,000

Fortunately for the comparison I didn't hit on any of the crazier examples out there that I know of previously - especially old campaign items that were more featured than individual scratch pulls and which are borderline / fully extinct on Ship 3. But it should be enough to show the difference is much more pronounced and consistent.

I know this is only a small sample size and a simple comparison, but hopefully it should help to dispel the idea that Ship 3 is always and much worse. It's largely just the older stuff, and that's a pre-PC issue rather than a present-day Ship 3 population issue.

On that point, as always, I do agree that stuff should be re-run. Especially everything that was only available prior to PC launch.

Things are somewhat unclear while PC still has issues; it would make sense to fix those first (even if it takes another store) and then bring old campaigns, scratches, Mission Pass seasons and Fresh Finds appearances back. Otherwise you'll just have some would-be day one players missing out on things they wanted twice!


@Ace said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

The only ominous clues that have been given have been "sharing is caring" & "What comes around, goes around"

This lacks context. "Sharing is caring 💙" was in response to a lone voice asking them not to bring back Evolution Device: Dreamcast, the only non tradable pre-PC campaign item. That person asked because the previous @play_pso2 tweet very strongly hinted it would be returning in an upcoming campaign, by virtue of being a direct response to my tweet specifically asking for it.

So we can be somewhat confident that arguably the greatest loss from pre-PC campaigns (due to not being tradable) won't stay that way forever. Which I'm still hugely excited for! I have my main DEX mag ready to use it on as soon as I receive that device, and it'll never be changed away.

In the grander scheme it provides increased confidence that other stuff might return sometime too. I think we might hear more once they've got past the PC issues that are both worse than anything Xbox One beta testing had to deal with and looking to last for longer than even the open beta period. But as I said before there's little point doing re-runs before many PC players can play still.

@Ace said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

@Blackichan08

We're missing out on a lot of QOL that's present in the Japanese title.

PSO2ES gave you 1 SG a day for logging in (Even gave you free storage) All we got from PSO2ES were weapon drops (Sigma as an example)

You could buy Stargems from the casino with coins

Clearing Bonus Quest

Rankings

PVP shop

In regards of the skill tree, right now Console players technically have gotten 6 skill reset passes. PC Players have gotten Zero.

I'm sure a lot of people screwed up their trees cause it's essentially a trap mechanic and same for the mag if you're new. At-least you can fix the mag to some extent.

I expect skill tree passes will be handed out whenever Episode 4 releases

Either way that too is a horrible start for new PC players.

Not many are going to want to start back up at level 1 or let alone spend money to redo their skill tree when they find out they messed up.

Most MMOs encourage you to put points into raw stats so new players will more than likely do so rather than how PSO handles it by putting it into percentage based passives or new skills that amplify damage more so than just raw numbers

it'll be disheartening for them

Yeah it's a joke about the skill tress as a pc player but i made sure to check mine to make sure it was good.

Also whats pso2 ES sorry ? not heard of that before

@Miraglyth this is really informative nice post fella, yeah ship 3 a lot of us new pc player's picked 3 to be fair a lot of hardcore fashion loves on 3 as well

@Blackichan08 said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

@Ace said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

@Blackichan08 In regards of the skill tree, right now Console players technically have gotten 6 skill reset passes. PC Players have gotten Zero.

I'm sure a lot of people screwed up their trees cause it's essentially a trap mechanic and same for the mag if you're new. At-least you can fix the mag to some extent.

I expect skill tree passes will be handed out whenever Episode 4 releases

Yeah it's a joke about the skill tress as a pc player but i made sure to check mine to make sure it was good.

Also whats pso2 ES sorry ? not heard of that before

If we have to wait until Episode 4, PC players will have been asked to wait around 2.5 months for their first skill resets. Xbox One players by contrast got those 6 reset passes all within their first 2 months.

PSO2es is a companion mobile app for the game in JP.

Hi guys, I just moved the thread to "Suggestions, In-game Suggestions" section as it is best suited for this discussion. Thank you.

UQ's should be consistent. Not different times everyday. I live on the east coast and i usually work 7-7. So these PST times work against me about 80% of the time.

Personally PC users should get something aside from the console users. While console got beta rewards and the liking, PC users should also receive a little something for the PC launch and more especially since Win10 has been giving PC users issues. There should be compensation/rewards seeing how if someone paid for premium but can't play the game because of said issues. Hopefully when they fix these issues they can have some kind of event in light of this.

One of the two skill pass distributions made sense as it was the official launch if the game, marking the end of the beta testing period.

The second was on the lajnch of PC which also came with a new difficulty and Ultimate. That would make more sense if the level cap went from 70 - 75 like it normally did, but sense it did not that doesn't make as much sense to me.

Making it sound like there were 6 passes given out over a 2.5 month period is a bit disingenuous because not everyone has a minimum of 3 characters, it is more accurate to state there were 2 distribution periods for skill passes.

The market advantage/disadvantage isn't as pronounced as stated when taking into consideration that a currently running, brand new AC scratch has items that premiere at 15m or more, accessible by anyone who purchases AC scratches.

Before PC launch, an equivalent item would have started around 5m meseta or less and required spending much, much, much more real life money to be able to reach over 100m meseta through AC purchasing alone.

The biggest disadvantages in terms of the market come in the form of campaign items that are not as likely to return as the CBT rewards are. (More specifically the emotes like Impromptu Tea Party). The reason why they provided more of an advance than the AC items/CBT items is because they were completely free and sold for pennies. The CBT items did not sell as cheap in the player market because of their exclusivity (even though they are all trash). Tea party sold for less than 1m at points.

The market advantage of PC players compared to PC players comes in the form of weapons. Those 13* weapons that PC players can snag for less than 1 mil cost over 10m during Xbox time (with a few exceptions) even though there was significantly less elapsed wealth on the servers. Was it due to less people playing? No, it was because they were the best and AC whales will pay a lot of meseta to get the best with minimal effort.

There are some advantages that the early players got as noted, but it isn't as severe as some would like to make it seem. The worst part of playing up until PC release was that the state of the game was 100% stagnant from CBT until PC release. The "endgame" never shifted from Advanced Quests, which required always shuffling at least 3 different quests (regardless of value) to maintain the currency you needed to farm the quest you DID want to farm.

PC playeds have gotten 1 seasonal (Wind and Rain), 2 new modes (Ultimate), (Challenge), got to come into the game during a unique, limited concert period and the first collaboration (Hatsune Miku), and have gotten to experience a first for PSO2: Independence Day.

Sure, may not sound like much to those looking for problems, but time is infinitely more valuable than trinkets that will eventually return and a messed up skill tree that still allows you to overperform at the current level of content.

I am not dismissing the differences that contribute to the gap between launches, but I am putting it into a different perspective. The gap isn't a massive chasm. For a lot of players who do not care about cosmetics they are not even aware of, there isn't a gap at all.

@Kuon said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

Personally PC users should get something aside from the console users. While console got beta rewards and the liking, PC users should also receive a little something for the PC launch and more especially since Win10 has been giving PC users issues.

No, no, a thousand times no! I'm a PC player and honestly this would just cause more division. And unless your idea of distribution is specifically "All players that have never used an Xbox One" it wouldn't even accomplish what you wanted since Xbox One players could just log in using a PC. This is a bad idea.

PC players should be allowed the content we haven't been able to get so we're all on the same page, then we can stop worrying about the entire matter and would never have to talk about it again.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

One of the two skill pass distributions made sense as it was the official launch if the game, marking the end of the beta testing period.

Erm... what? I don't understand what beta testing has to do with one segment of the players being given multiple passes in their first couple of months while another segment is potentially made to wait much longer than that.

Beta testing has nothing to do with players messing up their builds. I haven't heard of one beta issue that caused skill points to be spent erroneously.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

Making it sound like there were 6 passes given out over a 2.5 month period is a bit disingenuous because not everyone has a minimum of 3 characters, it is more accurate to state there were 2 distribution periods for skill passes.

It basically amounts to the same thing, but 2 distributions makes more sense. Obviously any Xbox One players who had bought extra characters would have received more than 6 passes after all, so it's better to go with the more constant number.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

The biggest disadvantages in terms of the market come in the form of campaign items that are not as likely to return as the CBT rewards are. (More specifically the emotes like Impromptu Tea Party). The reason why they provided more of an advance than the AC items/CBT items is because they were completely free and sold for pennies. The CBT items did not sell as cheap in the player market because of their exclusivity (even though they are all trash). Tea party sold for less than 1m at points.

Agreed with your overall point, but I must take offense at you calling the Photon Halo set trash. I pulled an all-nighter to snag one of the few "cheap" Bs on PC launch before anyone else could afford it, and I'd do it again.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

The market advantage of PC players compared to PC players comes in the form of weapons. Those 13* weapons that PC players can snag for less than 1 mil cost over 10m during Xbox time (with a few exceptions)

Useless advantage. Not even worth mention. Nobody needed 13* weapons in March, and everyone knew they would come down in price as the content progressed. Weapons in this game are designed to be obsoleted, fashion is designed to be permanent. I don't see them making Super Impromptu Tea Party anytime soon.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

PC playeds have gotten 1 seasonal (Wind and Rain), 2 new modes (Ultimate), (Challenge), got to come into the game during a unique, limited concert period and the first collaboration (Hatsune Miku), and have gotten to experience a first for PSO2: Independence Day.

What's your point here? It's not like Xbox One players didn't also get those. Moreover they were able to get more out of them. Wind and Rain dropped some unique 13* gear on XH, like Coated Edge v2 to rub salt into the wound of the already pre-PC Coated Edge camo.

Most PC players were not able to run XH (level 70+) for at least the first half of the 4 weeks the wedding event lasted, so that gave pre-PC players free reign to farm those and leverage the market even beyond PC release.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

time is infinitely more valuable than trinkets that will eventually return

Every. Single. Time. You make this claim that everything PC players missed out on will 100% come back.

Every. Single. Time. I ask for your source on this.

Every. Single. Time. You never reply beyond that point.

This pattern is getting extremely tiresome. Please either back up this claim you keep making or for the love of all that is sensible stop making it without basis already.

All we can be confident about is that Evolution Device: Dreamcast is coming back in an upcoming campaign. That's literally it. We don't even know if FUN scratch content like music disks that are virtually extinct on Ship 3 will come back.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

The gap isn't a massive chasm. For a lot of players who do not care about cosmetics they are not even aware of, there isn't a gap at all.

This is agreeable. In the grand scheme of things. But it is a gap and to people who care most about content - which I think you will find have a heavy overlap with whales! - it is a gap that hurts and makes people less willing to spend money. Alongside the PC issues, the sooner the gap is closed, the better.

Just want to point out that someone posted a screenshot of average prices for sake of their argument on the first page and that means nothing. Average prices are not the price the item is usually going for because the history is saved for too long and the economy moves quickly. It would be interesting to see the price on other ships though.. But I wonder if it was so easy to see prices on other ships if it would merge the economy in a way and other ship prices would decide current ship price. I'm sure it would have some effect.

@MoldyAsp33874 said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

Average prices are not the price the item is usually going for because the history is saved for too long and the economy moves quickly.

Yeah, Spectra Saberon detailed this in page 3, and I took a look at some of the top sellers on two ships a few posts ago with the summary that they're not as different as people seem to think especially newer items.

@Miraglyth having extremely easy access to powerful weapons is a useless advantage? So being able to circumvent the cycle of getting to make level, using trash weapons that required weeks worth of badge farming to get to be able fo start farming efficiently for desirable items to make a profit off/dealing with the overwhelming majority of everyone being undergeared for everything is worthless? The complete disregard of a player's time spent doing mundane crap really detracts from the credibility of any argument that could further made about this game.

The unique W&R weapons never priced high, so the lack of being to get them immediately means nothing. As you said earlier, having immediate access to those weapons are worthless anyways, so we can dismiss that part of your argument.

You see no problem with having a lack of content/reason to play the game, only a problem with cosmetic items because FOMO is the strongest inhibition in your decision making process. If PC players had to wait 6 months for any tangible content to be added, this game would have a very low population by the time the content was added, which means the economy would become even worse, making those tradeable cosmetics even less obtainable to anyone who started playing later on.

If bringing back the Dreamcast isn't an indication of their willingness to bring back those other cosmetics you spent entirely too much on, then I don't know what to tell you. The Dreamcast mag was designed in JP to be exclusive to those who made a conscious effort to be included in the population that received it. Even if anyone has a source that could prove they were coming back, they wouldn't share it with someone that would blast it all over the place, resulting in their unique access to information being compromised.

The complete disregard to the value of a player's time due to a personal stance on vanity items really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Kinda strange considering part of this thread is complaining about how long PC players have to wait to get a skill reset. Especially when it is guaranteed to happen after waiting a period of time.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

@Miraglyth having extremely easy access to powerful weapons is a useless advantage?

In the context of missing out on visual content forever due to being left behind at launch? Yes.

And to remind, you're not comparing PC today with Xbox One today. You're comparing PC today with Xbox One in March. This is a totally meaningless comparison. All you're saying here is that PC are being given a catch-up mechanism, so they are behind Xbox One for less time.

Note that - they are behind Xbox One. That's the important part. None of the catch-up mechanism overtakes Xbox One progress - nor should it - at any like-for-like point in time. So to present it as a some kind of competitive advantage is heavily disingenuous.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

So being able to circumvent the cycle of getting to make level

You know what the best way to get to max level early was? Being able to play as early as February. Again: Catch-up mechanism. Not an advantage.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

The unique W&R weapons never priced high

Not exceptionally high no, but 3+ million is still 3+ million PC players probably had to give to Xbox One players by virtue of not being high enough level to farm XH themselves at first. All you can try to do is downplay this point - you cannot defeat it. Xbox One players started the wedding event at level 75. Every single PC player started it at level 1.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

You see no problem with having a lack of content/reason to play the game, only a problem with cosmetic items because FOMO is the strongest inhibition in your decision making process. If PC players had to wait 6 months for any tangible content to be added, this game would have a very low population by the time the content was added

Leaving your accusatory tone aside, if that is your reasoning then how in the world did PSO2 survive? The base game launched in July 2012 in Japan, and from what I can find Episode 4 arrived in January 2016. To spare you the math that's three and a half years. That clearly didn't kill the game. What it's got can tide people over for 4 months (April official launch to August), let alone 6.

If the players of our server are that needy for constant new content, our entire server is screwed once we do catch up to JP.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

If bringing back the Dreamcast isn't an indication of their willingness to bring back those other cosmetics you spent entirely too much on, then I don't know what to tell you.

How about the truth instead of more bare-faced hostility? Indications are not commitments nor guarantees. You're running around telling everyone that everything is absolutely, definitely, 100% coming back and you have no clue whether it is or not.

What's even your aim here? It seems like you just want people to stop asking for content they want because you don't want to hear them asking for it. What good is essentially lying to them going to do?

I mean that literally as well: If you get what you want and people stop asking, the GM team won't have anything to forward to the developers. Which means the developers lose sight of the desire for pre-PC re-runs and are less likely to do them. You are using false expectation to tell PC players to reduce the chance of re-runs.

Back to the Dreamcast for a moment, it was the only pre-PC campaign item that could not be traded. They could easily reason that the rest don't need to be brought back because those could be (despite some of them being completely extinct on the Ship 3 market from before PC launch onwards).

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

The Dreamcast mag was designed in JP to be exclusive to those who made a conscious effort to be included in the population that received it.

Thanks for making that sentence such an obvious stretch that anyone can tell it's a stretch.

For clarity's sake, it has been available twice on JP, both times in 2015: As an attendance item in Phantasy Star Festa 2015 (a physical convention) and as a promotional item for anyone who bought the "15th Anniversary Phantasy Star Online Visual Chronicle" artbook for a price that worked out to about $19 at the time.

I expect you're referring specifically to the former. Convention goodies aren't really comparable to anything a NA server - let alone a global server soon - can do. But anyone could order that book online if they wanted it or its extras. There was no "included in the population" gating, nor is that a good concept.

Moreover, what, now you're saying it shouldn't come back because players had the ability to consciously decide to fly to America in February? Isn't that an utter contradiction to your message that it'll definitely come back? Which one is it? You can't say both with a straight face.

@John-Paul-RAGE said in A couple of issues with the game that I think need to be addressed.:

Even if anyone has a source that could prove they were coming back, they wouldn't share it with someone that would blast it all over the place, resulting in their unique access to information being compromised.

Are you referring to some kind of insider leak? It's nothing like that. They told us on Twitter.

Worst part of the xbox favoritism via exclusive limited time events and the ability to manipulate the economy with their overpriced cosmetics PC players had no chance to obtain- is that it's going to happen again when other PC platforms release(assuming steam) except they'll be complaining about microsoft store PC players instead.

The problem just lies with microsofts choice to give xbox not only a much earlier release- but multiple xbox only beta tests(despite no real reason PC should have missed out on those- considering the game is 8 years old and has always been on PC... they overcomplicated the JP to NA port when they didn't have to which caused horrible launch problems which further seperated xbox and PC as the banners ending shortly after PC launch were still difficult to get due to many people unable to play the game.) But then again- Microsoft must have paid them and sony decided not to jump at the chance to welcome NA players when Microsoft did. Which is also strange considering PSO2 has been uncensored on PS4 since the dawn of time- and I can't imagine it would be difficult to port it over from PS4 to... .. PS4..- yet with sonys new policies- if they had to censor something then they would be caught in a weird position of --Why are 2 versions of the same free game that anyone with the system can download at any time different in this way--

@Miraglyth Holy, TYSM !! That was exactly the kind of information I was looking for in terms the price difference across ships I've heard mentioned, but never really fully detailed. You've spared me the legwork, I appreciate it.

+1