I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event

@GM-Deynger said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@John-Paul-RAGE said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Tomoe I believe the following happened:

A global moderator responded to a report by deleting the thread. An Admin looked at it later and wagered the pros vs cons and determined it could be a beneficial discussion/sensing session to gain feedback that can be leveraged for the future of the "global" version of the game.

Questions would need to be answered like: *"If this will be supported in x, y, and z country, how receptive will they be of these images and symbols?"

Moving forward, as long as things did not spiral into an irredeemable place, the moderation would focus on deleting individual posts that did not add anything to the discussion rather than removing the ability to participate completely.

The problem is an individual problem. Individuals who feel an opinion is a personal attack and impulsively spring into non-constructive dialouge and throw personal attacks themselves. SEGA JP could use the feedback in all honesty, they are most likely not very in-tune with how other cultures perceive things. Individuals just need to learn how to ignore topics that cause them enough anger to prevent from thinking logically.

Report the individual posts that are obvious attacks, select "other", and type in that said post should be delete due to x,y,z. It will help out the Global Moderators who are on the forum more until an Admin can take more appropriate action.

👏 This is why we're allowing this thread to continue. So long as everyone is enjoying the discussion and responding in a calm and meaningful way. And yes, the feedback can (and will be) used for "future" content.

This barely has anything to do with this game anymore though. How does a post about a Nazi or anything else help this game? I would suggest making an off-topic section of this game because I didn't think general meant "talk about real world problems" if we can't truly keep hot topics like this out of a video game forum.

That said, I personally don't wanna see this shit here. There's too much going on in the world right now and I didn't really wanna come to General to go right back into it. I've nothing against the event. If I had to say because of current events it's a little "oof" right now but it's just more stuff for us to do and reap the rewards. Very harmless. SEGA isn't out to make fun of Americans. I don't deep dive think this hard about it. This is more of a "Reddit" post case anyways. Probably would bear more fruit there anyways. Just my 2 cents.

@Anarchy-Marine @SleeprunnerInc

Honestly I would have been more receptive towards TC's post were it not for how incredibly loaded, generalizing, and throwing divisive rhetoric around. I am of the mind that statements like those have no place here and should have stayed deleted, but alas this is a point I think is actually worthy of consideration.

I certainly hope a spacial holiday event for Canada Day is considered in the future. Even though I am not the biggest fan of Canadian Government, as an NA player I would more then happy to put that asides in Celebration of an Event uplifting and partaking in our Neighbors Culture. These are divisive times and the U.S and Canada haven't been on the best of terms. I think something like this would be a good thing for both parties, and at the end of the day, its more content so no harm no foul.

@Novaline

Glad I'm not the only one appalled by their decision to keep this thread open, it's literally only one person who feels so offended by the presence of Red, White, and Blue together on a rectangle. The vocal minority ruins too much shit nowadays.

Not to throw shade at the Mods and understand they are just doing their Job but I see what they are doing more as P.R talk, with what is going on and how on edge the world is, simply deleting a topic like this could be seen as "insensitive and Uncaring" on SEGA's person. At the end of the day SEGA JP would still have to weigh in on the overall player base and how much are partaking and enjoying the content(Which by the way is for the Audience that this Server is focused on.), but so far this has just been ONE guy. Someone earlier vouched for ship 3 for the amount of people they saw partaking and enjoying the content, I will gladly do the same for Ship 1 and let that speak for itself.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't want to see or hear politics when I'm playing a video game, I play this to get away from the real world bullshit that's going on right now. So the fact that this thread is still alive is so frustrating.

And before you say anything, I've already muted the topic, but for some reason I still get popup notifications.

@Natty-Boh-man said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

why we're allowing this thread to continue. So long as everyone is enjoying the discussion and responding in a calm and meaningful way. And yes, the feedback can (and will be) used for "future" content.

Now one extreme left user has gone and scared the staff into considering changes to future content. Cancel culture is extremely effective. Funny how these days a small number of unhappy people can ruin things for everyone else.

To further clarify my point, the feedback will be used/considered, not necessarily implemented on all fronts.

@KLB600

I'm glad that we could find some common ground! Based on what I've read on the matter it seems that most of the symbolism of Columbia has been absorbed into Lady Liberty perhaps rendering the former obsolete as a national icon. Yet this begs the question: why didn't we get a Lady Liberty outfit?

@Anarchy-Marine

I'd like to thank you for your comment, you clearly put a great deal of time, effort and thought into composing it and I appreciate that. As neighbours on Ship 3 I hope that we can get along in spite of our differences. Even if I disagree with you (which I will, a lot), I want you to know that I'm trying to do so with respect to honour your investment in this topic.

Firstly I'd like to apologize to you and everyone else if I gave you the impression that I think all people from the US are bad. I actually feel quite the opposite! To the best of my knowledge, no single group of people on this Earth has done more to fight US imperialism than the American people, as paradoxical as that may seem. Furthermore the American people are also harmed (albeit less so than their foreign targets) by US imperialism, so I consider us all victims here. It is strictly the imperialistic foreign policy, the government, and (as a very distant third) the institution of the nation state of the US and their associated symbols that I take issue with. I hope that as an Anarchy Marine you can relate to that! To avoid such confusion in the future, I will be using the term US exclusively to refer to the nation and the term American exclusively to refer to the people who live there.

I don't play any of those games you mentioned, but a cursory search yields no result for an Overwatch 4th of July event aside from forum posts complaining of its absence. I see characters with US symbols on their costumes, but I don't take much of an issue with a game portraying presumably American characters wearing US symbols even if I take issue with the symbols themselves, since that's just a representation of a reality that Americans sometimes wear those things. If you choose to play a game set in the US or with American characters I'd say that you opt in to being exposed to those symbols. The same applies to Fallout, since the exploration and subversion of US imagery is a core part of its brand identity. I feel that in both these cases there is sufficient context for the symbols being present and consent from the player in being exposed to those symbols that it is justifiable to include them.

As for Black Desert Online, while event is supposedly an Independence Day event, I don't see any in-game political symbols involved based on a quick search, just fireworks and some animal balloon, so I have no problems worth mentioning with that.

I will concede that PSO2 is a grey area considering Epsiode 4 includes at least in part a US setting, but I hope that you can accept that I don't feel that the use of these symbols is apporpriate outside of the context of that area and items taken from that area.

The meaning of a symbol is granted by two things: the life experiences that someone has in relation to that symbol, and the context with which that symbol is presented. In absence of the significant presence of the latter, one defaults to the former. So, to me, I don't feel that PSO2 grants enough context to these symbols for them to have meaning other than that which my life experience has given them, which is not a positive one for the US flag and Uncle Sam. I'm not trying to destroy these symbols or take them away from people using them benignly in the appropriate time, place and context, I simply feel at this time that this game is not the appropriate place for them and at this time I would rather not see them here. I hope you can see that as a reasonable stance even if you don't agree with it.

I'm not going to engage on the topic of the value of the preservation of symbols that people associate with hate, imperialism, colonialism, etc. since I think that will take us too far off from focusing specifically on this event in this game, but if you consider keeping these things in a museum rather than on the street an acceptable compromise, I would hope that you'd see keeping these symbols confined to domestic celebrations rather than regional scale online video games as an acceptable compromise as well.

I will likewise choose to avoid getting into an arguement over censorship for similar reasons, except that to briefly state that I would define censorship as the prevention of freedom of expression enforced by a state or similar body. A person or company recieving feedback and chosing to add, remove or change something based on that feedback or other data is something more akin to curation or editorial discretion.

I truely am glad that there are many people enjoying the event. While it might not seem that way to some of you, I do want all of us to have fun and enjoy this game together. However, I would like to once again ask how much of this enjoyment is specifically derived from this particular incarnation of this particular event using this particular imagery, and whether you would be just as happy with a "Freedom Day" event featuring "Eagleland" flags and "Uncle Fam" as a costume.

Thank you once again for participating in this discussion and (hopefully) reading my response.

Why can't you just play the game instead of making these essays? I dunno if you dislike the game or what anymore lmao.

@Novaline No I'm sick of it myself. I really think we need an off-topic section though.

@KLB600 Honestly these posts bring in alot of good feedback even if it seems very volatile and IS volatile.

For instance, would we have started talking about Columbia or Canada celebrations without this topic?

The chance is very slim.

Plus we can see in to the minds of some people and see how many agree with them and how many do not.

The goal post of this is to share someone's experience with what is going on atm and what bothers them while seeing if there is anyone who agrees to it and openly providing counter arguments both calmly and rationally.

Infact I think this has been a good eye opener for many even if it Is the minority thats speaking.

He isn't requesting that the event gets removed, just voicing that he is disappointed in how it has been brought and portrayed.

This is overall for everyone to read and I doubt alot of the people here who feel the need to instantly and violently cuss and torch people have read a single thing.

As Sonic music teaches us: Live and Learn.

@Anarchy-Marine said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@KLB600 Doesn't Canada have their own celebration of independence, or something equal to it? If I'm being honest here, I don't know every countries national holidays, as I'm still learning them. Regardless, I wouldn't mind if Canada also got some sort of event. More content, more things to earn, and I'm all for that.

We have Canada Day on July 1. It's basically the same thing, just less 'Murica.

This post is deleted!

@GM-Deynger said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@NeirasRothmagia said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

With that said, I would like to thank you for your continued commentary, which has always been calm and conciliatory thus far, adding a much needed touch of grace to this thread.

This is why we're allowing this thread to continue. So long as everyone is enjoying the discussion and responding in a calm and meaningful way. And yes, the feedback can (and will be) used for "future" content.

Yeah but no, don't ask to remove a event or items because of 1 little guys ask that, because thi is censorship. If you start to censor it, you will lose the fan base. The probs is if we start to do that, we should juste remove Ep4 because its have real life symbol, colabs with real world stuff, why juste not remove yamato who destroy so many stuff ? Sorry but no. I don't want to get censored again because of a guy who think america flags or idk what is evil. If he doesn't like the event he could just skip it.

@NeirasRothmagia

I believe the reason why is because it would be difficult to create a Lady Liberty costume without deviating from the "Image" of her design(Thats why we got the statue instead). This wasn't the case for Sam(Whose costume is a PSO2 re imagining of sam).

Mate I don't know why you think anyone has the time to read your massive walls of political rants but I'll skim over and address this as my final point to you.

I don't play any of those games you mentioned, but a cursory search yields no result for an Overwatch 4th of July event aside from forum posts complaining of its absence. I see characters with US symbols on their costumes, but I don't take much of an issue with a game portraying presumably American characters wearing US symbols even if I take issue with the symbols themselves, since that's just a representation of a reality that Americans sometimes wear those things. If you choose to play a game set in the US or with American characters I'd say that you opt in to being exposed to those symbols. The same applies to Fallout, since the exploration and subversion of US imagery is a core part of its brand identity. I feel that in both these cases there is sufficient context for the symbols being present and consent from the player in being exposed to those symbols that it is justifiable to include them.

That's not the point of him using fallout 76 as an example, you presumed even American Games don't use it in its entirety, well they do. Also I listed some games that explicitly use American symbolism that have no American context within their lore. League of Legends one of the most played games has an Uncle Sam skin for one of its heroes.

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Many more games do this with the symbolism of the Stars and stripes in none earth setting as I listed before.

@NeirasRothmagia Are you going to be equally upset by the following events?:

Halloween (not everyone celebrates that)

Christmas (Not everyone is Christian and it certainly would be out of place in PSO2's setting by your logic.)

White Day (Japan only companion holiday for Valentines day, but it's been in every US release of PSO/PSU so not having it would be odd at this point.)

Easter (Again not everyone is Christian and it would be out of place in PSO2's setting by your logic.)

And for what it's worth, a significant portion of my ancestry is Native American and Irish. One of those groups was a victim of genocide from the US Government at one point and another has a long history of being discriminated against. Yet I have absolutely no problem with this game celebrating the 4th of July because I personally feel no ill will towards my country and enjoy celebrating the 4th of July like any other American citizen. I'm happy that Sega is actually celebrating one of our national holidays in PSO when in the past it was always Japanese holidays (either Japanese only or ones Japan also happened to celebrate with everyone else).

Honestly if this event upsets you then I'd suggest you just don't play Episode 4. It will probably be too much for you.

@KLB600 said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@NeirasRothmagia

I believe the reason why is because it would be difficult to create a Lady Liberty costume without deviating from the "Image" of her design(Thats why we got the statue instead). This wasn't the case for Sam(Whose costume is a PSO2 re imagining of sam).

Mate I don't know why you think anyone has the time to read your massive walls of political rants but I'll skim over and address this as my final point to you.

I don't play any of those games you mentioned, but a cursory search yields no result for an Overwatch 4th of July event aside from forum posts complaining of its absence. I see characters with US symbols on their costumes, but I don't take much of an issue with a game portraying presumably American characters wearing US symbols even if I take issue with the symbols themselves, since that's just a representation of a reality that Americans sometimes wear those things. If you choose to play a game set in the US or with American characters I'd say that you opt in to being exposed to those symbols. The same applies to Fallout, since the exploration and subversion of US imagery is a core part of its brand identity. I feel that in both these cases there is sufficient context for the symbols being present and consent from the player in being exposed to those symbols that it is justifiable to include them.

That's not the point of him using fallout 76 as an example, you presumed even American Games don't use it in its entirety, well they do. Also I listed some games that explicitly use American symbolism that have no American context within their lore. League of Legends one of the most played games has an Uncle Sam skin for one of its heroes.

maxresdefault.jpg

Many more games do this with the symbolism of the Stars and stripes in none earth setting as I listed before.

Ah yes, Uncle Ryze. Another way to show patriotism in a quirky and cartoony way in a video game. Like what this event did with their Uncle All Might outfit. I don't have a male character, but the outfit actually looks nice in a goofy way.

I will agree that it probably would of been better to also have recolors of these outfits for our Canadian neighbors since their Independence Day is also the same week of our own Independence Day. I didn't realize that until someone mentioned it in this thread, and it makes sense why the boost is on that specific week. Very good job on SEGA's part for that.

@NeirasRothmagia I'd like to clarify something, (which I should probably add to my signature, given how many times its come up as a talking point in many debates.) My handle, Anarchy Marine is in referance to Warhammer 40k.

As for American symbolism. I get that you think that's the truth. Symbols are just shapes, and are meaningless until someone gives them meaning, was my point. My view is that, while in the past those American symbols which you are so strongly against, had their mixed background of good and bad, I see their potential to mean something more than what their past is. The same way you can, and should forgive someone for their transgressions should they make the conscious decision to be a better person, through action not words, you should forgive a nation it's symbols, if those who back them aren't the same people that came before them.

Doing otherwise would mean you lack the simple capacity of forgiveness, and will forever hold some negative emotions in your heart, for something so petty, which isn't healthy. That's said, it won't change how I treat you in game. Or anyone for that matter. I judge on action alone, and if I see someone down and out, I'll give them a hand, or a revive. That is until they see me get downed, and simply walk away, which happens on very, very, very rare occasion.

I probably won't be replying to this thread any longer however, as other users are making the same, very valid points that I'd have been making, separate from the symbolism itself, for instance other games that use them. I also played Overwatch, check my played games on Xbox Live, and I can tell you, that yes, Overwatch had 4th of July seasonal events back when I still played. If they were removed, it was probably because someone did what you did here, and complained. Companies don't censor (thats what I see it as) their games to protect us, they do that to reduce scrutiny, which is another reason why I'm against removals of such events.

@TrekkiesUnite Christmas has pretty much changed from being a christian holiday to just being a consumer holiday where Santa claus or whoever someone is brought up with, encourages you to spend money or drink coke.

It's more or less a neutral holiday and the only thing that changes among people?

The name.

X-mas, Christmas, Holiday etc.

Heck in Finland we call Christmas just Joulu.

Joulu being the name of the month (Joulukuu).