I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event

@Golbleen He is not entitled to post that discrimination here, regardless of his opinion about it. The terms of service for use of this game and it's forums dictates that you are not allowed to engage in hate speech or discrimination.

Calling for the literal erasure of an entire nation's representation, and the censorship and deletion of a nation's culture, much less the home nation that this game service is currently operating in, is definitive discrimination. He has said he wants the removal of the United States flag and various other forms of cultural erasure because of his personal politics.

This is not a forum for that. This forum also specifically has rules that state you do not engage in discrimination. He is not entitled to do that, and you are being disingenuous to imply or state otherwise.

The fact this thread has 21 pages is less about user sensitivity than it is about failure of Moderators to do the very job they are hired to do.

@AeonXIII said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Golbleen He is not entitled to post that discrimination here, regardless of his opinion about it. The terms of service for use of this game and it's forums dictates that you are not allowed to engage in hate speech or discrimination.

Calling for the literal erasure of an entire nation's representation, and the censorship and deletion of a nation's culture, much less the home nation that this game service is currently operating in, is definitive discrimination. He has said he wants the removal of the United States flag and various other forms of cultural erasure because of his personal politics.

This is not a forum for that. This forum also specifically has rules that state you do not engage in discrimination. He is not entitled to do that, and you are being disingenuous to imply or state otherwise.

The fact this thread has 21 pages is less about user sensitivity than it is about failure of Moderators to do the very job they are hired to do.

Recognizing that America has a pretty filthy history is "hate speech". Got it. All he can do is ask for it's removal. He can't demand it with any effectiveness. He has no power in this situation. You merely want the mods to silence him. Is he advocating for the genocide of Americans? I don't remember reading any of that in his post. But if I missed that bit go ahead and correct me. You people are literally acting ridiculous over this. That's why the reaction is comical.

@GrizzlyTrollton said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

Recognizing that America has a pretty filthy history is "hate speech". Got it. All he can do is ask for it's removal. He can't demand it with any effectiveness. He has no power in this situation. You merely want the mods to silence him. Is he advocating for the genocide of Americans? I don't remember reading any of that in his post. You people are literally acting ridiculous over this. That's why the reaction is comical.

Every country has a pretty filthy history. Learn from it and move on.

@GrizzlyTrollton I said that the terms of service reference that you cannot engage in hate speech or discrimination.

I specified that what he was engaging in, in particular, was discrimination by definition - one of the things you are forbidden to engage in while using the services.

All your hypothetical twisting of words are irrelevant. He is advocating for and engaging in discrimination on the forums.

It is not allowed by the terms of service. It should not be here.

Hello everyone! I'm glad to see there is still so much interest in this topic after my semi-retirement from it. I just wanted to briefly (as in, I intend to leave again afterwards, the text is quite long) make a few clarifications on some of my points so that they don't prove to be a distraction going forward.

First of all I would like to apologize to everyone who feels insulted, offended or otherwise has had their feelings hurt by me raising this issue or by any of my subsequent commentary. I hope we can all understand that when discussing sensitive issues like this, it's hard to do so without giving some offense, but (with the exception of my more confrontational opening post) I have done my best to carry on this discussion with respect and sensitivity. If I have failed to do so at any point the onus of that is rests entirely on me. Once this topic has run its course, I hope that we can all move on with no hard feelings on the matter. If you feel that it is too late for that, then I accept your frustrations and anger in their entirity and will not begrudge you for having those feelings.

Next I would like to clarify my stance on what should be done with these symbols. While I said that I personally would like to have the event changed and/or the symbols removed so that I can play the game without having to see them, I would not want the event changed and/or symbols removed unless there was a substantial segment of the community that supported such an alteration. To do so would be an act of idealogical and iconographic imperialism that would be a feat of great hypocricy, not to mention being in opposition to my personal values.

Part of the reason why I'm trying to put some distance between myself and this thread is that I feel that my objections to this event have dominated the conversation for too long and I would like to step aside to give others who share some of my sentiments a chance to make their own voices heard. My objective, since the reopening of this thread, has always been to inspire others to speak. If that doesn't happen, then I have clearly overestimated the reach of my message in this community and cannot in good conscience continue to bother all of you in the pursuit of my own comfort.

When I ask "could we not have done this differently" or some variation there of, it's not a rhetorical question, it's me trying to find viable alternatives to see if there are any accpetable compromises. Would a "Freedom Day," an Independence Day in all but name and specific imagery be acceptable? If not and it specificly had to be the actual Independence Day, would different symbols be accpetable?

Instead of the current US flag, would not the Betty Ross flag of the original thirteen colonies, an image more closely linked with the history of this holiday, suffice? Or that yellow flag with the snake? "Don't Tead On Me" is a message that resonates with the spirit of this celebration and is a more universally applicable rejection of oppression. The Flag of the Union from the Civil War period, though I suspect it would be more contraversial domesticly, represents an opposition to slavery which was lacking in the immediate aftermath of US independence and could be seen as completing the ideals associated with this holiday. Instead of Uncle Sam, could we not have had an attire inspired by the Minutemen or the Founding Fathers?

If there is truly no room for compromise and the event that we have now has to be presented exactly as is on this year and all others, could we not have an option to hide the lobby decorations (which I don't have a problem with, but am including here for completeness' sake) or the outfits and accessories without having to blacklist people?

I hope I can make it clear that I am not trying to force my will on anyone. I would simply like to enjoy this game with peace of mind. If that is impossible, I can just stop playing for the duration of this event, or longer, if I so choose, but I hope that you can come to see it as a reasonable course of action to voice my objections to the event and request (not demand) a change, even if you don't agree with my feelings.

With that, I return to my self-imposed exile to watch from afar as things develop here. Thank you once again everyone for participating in the discussion and hopefully reading my posts. Farewell!

@NeirasRothmagia

With that, I return to my self-imposed exile to watch from afar as things develop here.

This guy literally admitted he posted this garbage to let everyone duke it out in the thread, LOLL

I enjoy it find it pretty fun

@GrizzlyTrollton

How upset people are actually getting over a random opinion from a random person on the internet

When you write absurd statements on a public forum, don't be surprised when people call you out on it.

@GrizzlyTrollton said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

The author is entitled to speak those opinions regardless of if you or I disagree with them or dislike how they were written. Clearly, a lot of people in the PSO2 community were very sensitive to the author's opinion, which is why this thread now has 21 pages.

For all the people complaining about this thread still being up. They are doing a damn good job constantly bumping it and giving the mods the "feedback" that they want. Obviously the dude can have his opinion. How upset people are actually getting over a random opinion from a random person on the internet is a little comical to me. But maybe that's just me.

well im getting tired of game content being removed or altered because of "these" kind of people, aka censoring. GMs did say that theyre taking feedback after all, so if i dont see it next year, i think we will know why.

@Alineah said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@GrizzlyTrollton said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

The author is entitled to speak those opinions regardless of if you or I disagree with them or dislike how they were written. Clearly, a lot of people in the PSO2 community were very sensitive to the author's opinion, which is why this thread now has 21 pages.

For all the people complaining about this thread still being up. They are doing a damn good job constantly bumping it and giving the mods the "feedback" that they want. Obviously the dude can have his opinion. How upset people are actually getting over a random opinion from a random person on the internet is a little comical to me. But maybe that's just me.

well im getting tired of game content being removed or altered because of "these" kind of people

The ESRB, America's No-AO policy, and Microsoft's utter compliance to the American rating standard will, ironically, cancel this game's anime titties long before some essay on the forums does.

The assets used for the event aren't going anywhere, they already exist in-game and are vital to restoring Ep. 4 in its 'All the content!' form.

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Alineah said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@GrizzlyTrollton said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

The author is entitled to speak those opinions regardless of if you or I disagree with them or dislike how they were written. Clearly, a lot of people in the PSO2 community were very sensitive to the author's opinion, which is why this thread now has 21 pages.

For all the people complaining about this thread still being up. They are doing a damn good job constantly bumping it and giving the mods the "feedback" that they want. Obviously the dude can have his opinion. How upset people are actually getting over a random opinion from a random person on the internet is a little comical to me. But maybe that's just me.

well im getting tired of game content being removed or altered because of "these" kind of people

The ESRB, America's No-AO policy, and Microsoft's utter compliance to the American rating standard will, ironically, cancel this game's anime titties long before some essay on the forums does.

The assets used for the event aren't going anywhere, they already exist in-game and are vital to restoring Ep. 4 in its 'All the content!' form.

Bruh this guy is writing a novel on why a video game holiday event is infringing on his rights, to be honest. KEKW

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Alineah said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@GrizzlyTrollton said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

The author is entitled to speak those opinions regardless of if you or I disagree with them or dislike how they were written. Clearly, a lot of people in the PSO2 community were very sensitive to the author's opinion, which is why this thread now has 21 pages.

For all the people complaining about this thread still being up. They are doing a damn good job constantly bumping it and giving the mods the "feedback" that they want. Obviously the dude can have his opinion. How upset people are actually getting over a random opinion from a random person on the internet is a little comical to me. But maybe that's just me.

well im getting tired of game content being removed or altered because of "these" kind of people

The ESRB, America's No-AO policy, and Microsoft's utter compliance to the American rating standard will, ironically, cancel this game's anime titties long before some essay on the forums does.

The assets used for the event aren't going anywhere, they already exist in-game and are vital to restoring Ep. 4 in its 'All the content!' form.

the ESRB in America is more laxed than the ratings in JP, lawfully and rule wise there is no reason why a game in the US should get censored if it comes from Japan if it happens to be able to make it to console markets in Japan, if the game happens to get censored, it will have nothing to do with laws or rule, but people's personal beliefs.

@Alineah said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Alineah said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@GrizzlyTrollton said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

The author is entitled to speak those opinions regardless of if you or I disagree with them or dislike how they were written. Clearly, a lot of people in the PSO2 community were very sensitive to the author's opinion, which is why this thread now has 21 pages.

For all the people complaining about this thread still being up. They are doing a damn good job constantly bumping it and giving the mods the "feedback" that they want. Obviously the dude can have his opinion. How upset people are actually getting over a random opinion from a random person on the internet is a little comical to me. But maybe that's just me.

well im getting tired of game content being removed or altered because of "these" kind of people

The ESRB, America's No-AO policy, and Microsoft's utter compliance to the American rating standard will, ironically, cancel this game's anime titties long before some essay on the forums does.

The assets used for the event aren't going anywhere, they already exist in-game and are vital to restoring Ep. 4 in its 'All the content!' form.

the ESRB in America is more laxed than the ratings in JP, lawfully and rule wise there is no reason why a game in the US should get censored if it comes from Japan if it happens to be able to make it to console markets in Japan

This is an oversimplified explanation of how these decisions are made.

The Japanese ratings board generally classifies what the ESRB considers 'sexual content' (with rare exceptions) on a lower severity than the American one, and conversely, classifies violence much higher. The Resident Evil franchise is a good example of this.

Market focus groups mistargeting their 'audiences' or trying to petition the ESRB for a lower rating (usually T rather than M) in hopes of cutting a larger profit are what results in these decisions.

The only 'personal belief' at play is an out-of-touch executive group thinking all anime is for kids.

(Usually working at Nintendo.)

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Alineah said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Alineah said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@GrizzlyTrollton said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

@Golbleen said in I am very disapointed in PSO2 for having this Independence Day event:

The author is entitled to speak those opinions regardless of if you or I disagree with them or dislike how they were written. Clearly, a lot of people in the PSO2 community were very sensitive to the author's opinion, which is why this thread now has 21 pages.

For all the people complaining about this thread still being up. They are doing a damn good job constantly bumping it and giving the mods the "feedback" that they want. Obviously the dude can have his opinion. How upset people are actually getting over a random opinion from a random person on the internet is a little comical to me. But maybe that's just me.

well im getting tired of game content being removed or altered because of "these" kind of people

The ESRB, America's No-AO policy, and Microsoft's utter compliance to the American rating standard will, ironically, cancel this game's anime titties long before some essay on the forums does.

The assets used for the event aren't going anywhere, they already exist in-game and are vital to restoring Ep. 4 in its 'All the content!' form.

the ESRB in America is more laxed than the ratings in JP, lawfully and rule wise there is no reason why a game in the US should get censored if it comes from Japan if it happens to be able to make it to console markets in Japan

This is an oversimplified explanation of how these decisions are made.

The Japanese ratings board generally classifies what the ESRB considers 'sexual content' (with rare exceptions) on a lower severity than the American one, and conversely, classifies violence much higher. The Resident Evil franchise is a good example of this.

Market focus groups mistargeting their 'audiences' or trying to petition the ESRB for a lower rating (usually T rather than M) in hopes of cutting a larger profit are what results in these decisions.

The only 'personal belief' at play is an out-of-touch executive group thinking all anime is for kids.

(Usually working at Nintendo.)

Meanwhile you got games like GTA with guys flipping their dongs and girls showing off their titties, TLOU2 with their sex scene, The order 1886 with more flipping dongs, also last i checked the latest version pso2 is also rated M it only makes sense the NA version follows this as well, pso2 wasnt always rated M

@Alineah As stated, exceptions - nudity being allowed (rarely, but at all!) in M games is one of the few places America lets things get raunchier than Japan.

Either way, the game has already been altered twice due to executives complying with cultural differences. The first is minimum female character height, and the second is the addition of a new holiday event that didn't exist in JP. Execs will do whatever they want, with or without people like the OP.