How about fixing the scammer spammer problem?

@ERICK001BC It's not my duty to police the server. Nor should it be yours, given the response you just gave. I'd never want to see you with any authority, in any worldly situation, because you would definitely abuse said power, over said authority.

Real issues in a server, are those that are toxic, I.E. those that spam, those that harass, and those that afk in urgent quests, potentially weakening the rest of the team's overall performance, and thus harming another users experience. Those are issues.

At what point do you get to dictate what is, and isn't allowed. The game has it's rules, but some of them only exist because of people like you that would take offense, not because they are actually something that would affect gameplay, when you can be an adult and walk away. And thus, I don't report every small thing, nor should anyone.

There are only so many admins in this game, and by reporting every little thing, you spread their resources further apart, and take away from their overall effectiveness at dealing with these bot accounts, bot accounts this thread is centered around. Anyone with basic common sense would see that much. The only other solution would be an automated system, but if you had spent any time in Xbox Live, you'd know how flawed and easily abused, such a system would be. So many issues would affect the player base in the general sense, that this game would die off.

@Anarchy-Marine Can't tell if you are serious or not. It has nothing to do with policing, has nothing to do with snitching or anything of that matter. It has to do with being the right thing to do. As far as perspectives go there are many things that are right and wrong and can be abused. But trying to justify yourself to breaking rules is something completely different. EVERYONE is able to report, that is why the option is there. Any false reports tend to back fire on those who misuse the system. The only people that should be afraid of a report system are the ones who are breaking the rules in the first place. If you want to read the code and conducts of both the forum and the game, that information is available.

@ERICK001BC said in How about fixing the scammer spammer problem?:

@Anarchy-Marine Can't tell if you are serious or not. It has nothing to do with policing, has nothing to do with snitching or anything of that matter. It has to do with being the right thing to do. As far as perspectives go there are many things that are right and wrong and can be abused. But trying to justify yourself to breaking rules is something completely different. EVERYONE is able to report, that is why the option is there. Any false reports tend to back fire on those who misuse the system. The only people that should be afraid of a report system are the ones who are breaking the rules in the first place. If you want to read the code and conducts of both the forum and the game, that information is available.

See, you automatically assume, by what I say, I'm somehow a rule breaker by default. You either know I'm right, or haven't been online long enough to see how easily report systems, with way too many options, can be abused, or used as a weapon by someone who is mentally unstable, or just a bad person.

The report system is fine as is, because to report someone for most cases, as you said, requires "other" as the selected option. It forces you to write out a short description, which will either deter false reports, or cause them to state something in the report, that if isn't breaking any rules, would then render the report ignored. Logic would dictate, "other", forces admins to actually investigate the situation. Whereas what you suggested, would allow a one button press, that could easily be used for blanket views of offense, or misconduct that wouldn't be as thoroughly investigated.

If you think there wouldn't be people that get away with abusing such a system, look to any other game, gaming platform, or social media site, that implemented such a system, and tell me there hasn't been people that got away with it. Easiest example would be Twitter, or Facebook. Xbox live gets plenty of false reports that go through. People have been banned for no reason before, other than they posted something from in game on their activity feed, which is allowed on Xbox Live. Because its mostly an automated system, and because enough people made the report, said reports were enough grounds for the algorithm to ban people, some of which were my friends.

Yes, some of them were unbanned the next day, because they called customer support, but not everyone wants to deal with that headache. Nothing happened to those who falsely report someone on Xbox Live, because I've had friends get stalked by people like this for some time, (as some have a mass following) with the only solution being to private their account. Those options don't exist in Phantasy Star. Nobody can just set their stuff to friends only, or private.

Again, you shouldn't make it your goal to report every little thing, because in many instances, they aren't actually harming the community at large. It's ones own interpretation of the rules, their perspective that would shape the way they would use the report function. But that being said, many don't bother to read those rules, and those that do, often times misunderstand them, or dont understand why those rules are even needed.

I've been gaming online for years, and I can tell you, what you propose opens all the wrong doors, and I'd much rather have it be commonplace for people to be adults in a mature game, and walk away from situations they don't like, rather than argue, belittle,or report someone for it. In most cases all three are childish, and in the case of a report, that should only ever be a last resort option. Or again the option for dealing with bots.

I've said my piece about this, that's my opinion. You are entitled to yours, but my years online tell me that you are wrong, and no veiled personal attack, ( as you made the point to tell me to read the code of conduct/ToS which I already throughly read) about how in your eyes, I obviously break rules for having such a view, will change that stance.

@Anarchy-Marine said in How about fixing the scammer spammer problem?:

@ERICK001BC said in How about fixing the scammer spammer problem?:

@Anarchy-Marine Can't tell if you are serious or not. It has nothing to do with policing, has nothing to do with snitching or anything of that matter. It has to do with being the right thing to do. As far as perspectives go there are many things that are right and wrong and can be abused. But trying to justify yourself to breaking rules is something completely different. EVERYONE is able to report, that is why the option is there. Any false reports tend to back fire on those who misuse the system. The only people that should be afraid of a report system are the ones who are breaking the rules in the first place. If you want to read the code and conducts of both the forum and the game, that information is available.

See, you automatically assume, by what I say, I'm somehow a rule breaker by default. You either know I'm right, or haven't been online long enough to see how easily report systems, with way too many options, can be abused, or used as a weapon by someone who is mentally unstable, or just a bad person.

The report system is fine as is, because to report someone for most cases, as you said, requires "other" as the selected option. It forces you to write out a short description, which will either deter false reports, or cause them to state something in the report, that if isn't breaking any rules, would then render the report ignored. Logic would dictate, "other", forces admins to actually investigate the situation. Whereas what you suggested, would allow a one button press, that could easily be used for blanket views of offense, or misconduct that wouldn't be as thoroughly investigated.

If you think there wouldn't be people that get away with abusing such a system, look to any other game, gaming platform, or social media site, that implemented such a system, and tell me there hasn't been people that got away with it. Easiest example would be Twitter, or Facebook. Xbox live gets plenty of false reports that go through. People have been banned for no reason before, other than they posted something from in game on their activity feed, which is allowed on Xbox Live. Because its mostly an automated system, and because enough people made the report, said reports were enough grounds for the algorithm to ban people, some of which were my friends.

Yes, some of them were unbanned the next day, because they called customer support, but not everyone wants to deal with that headache. Nothing happened to those who falsely report someone on Xbox Live, because I've had friends get stalked by people like this for some time, (as some have a mass following) with the only solution being to private their account. Those options don't exist in Phantasy Star. Nobody can just set their stuff to friends only, or private.

Again, you shouldn't make it your goal to report every little thing, because in many instances, they aren't actually harming the community at large. It's ones own interpretation of the rules, their perspective that would shape the way they would use the report function. But that being said, many don't bother to read those rules, and those that do, often times misunderstand them, or dont understand why those rules are even needed.

I've been gaming online for years, and I can tell you, what you propose opens all the wrong doors, and I'd much rather have it be commonplace for people to be adults in a mature game, and walk away from situations they don't like, rather than argue, belittle,or report someone for it. In most cases all three are childish, and in the case of a report, that should only ever be a last resort option. Or again the option for dealing with bots.

I've said my piece about this, that's my opinion. You are entitled to yours, but my years online tell me that you are wrong, and no veiled personal attack, ( as you made the point to tell me to read the code of conduct/ToS which I already throughly read) about how in your eyes, I obviously break rules for having such a view, will change that stance.

Think you misread my point. Was just stating that I would try to be a little more familiar with what is okay and not okay as per the code of conducts. Reporting players in the game vs the xbox feature will always have people who misuse the system, that does not however justify that the system shouldn't be easily viable for people to use. When someone is afk in PSO during an UQ then you have to be typing all that under other either during or after the UQ. If you have a spammer bot, you have to type in other not only the action but the reason why you are reporting. If you see a immature player showing off symbol art of the N word with a hanging, shouldn't it be easier to just open up you menu, click the offense, and the reason instead of clicking other? The point being that by having a more organized feature you don't get people filling out the reports differently. I would think that 50 people reporting 1 offensive picture for being offensive is better than 20 people reporting the picture for offensive, 10 for other, 5 for harassment, and so on.

Again it looks like from that last paragraph that you have your mind set to a certain range and well you aren't wrong in your beliefs but I wouldn't say other are wrong in theirs. Like you said with all those years of gaming online you can definitely see the amount of maturity you have racked up from many negative experiences. I am sorry you have had those things happen to you and your friends. Either way it is not for me to decide but the devs and moderators and for the most part they are doing their job to the best of their abilities. Me I rather play the game and when I see a clear violation that can be harmful to people I will do my duty as a community player who wishes to keep enjoying the game and keep it so other can enjoy it as well, will fill out a report to the best of my ability even with the limited catigories.

@ERICK001BC I get what your saying, I did from your first post, to my last response, and in all my years, no system will ever be enough to get rid of the small minority of a** holes that would post something like you described, and always does it instead do more harm than good. Which is why I said we need a block system, more than we need blanket reporting systems. Even if they get banned, it won't stop that person from being horrible, or think that what they think is comedy, will suddenly stop being funny to them. They get banned, they just wait until it lifts, lie their a** off, do it in private, go to a different game etc.

I'd much rather know someone is racist, or simply a bad person, than have them hide that part of themselves away. Knowing someone is bad prevents me from wanting to befrend them, doing business with them, or in this case game with them. I'd much rather know who a person is, than censor them, because no amount of censorship will change that person. They have to want to change, and having little to no friends is a good starting point for that change.

A good example of knowing the value of a person, is by the choices they make, and by creating a system of imposed censorship, rather than allowing players to block people they don't like, you would instead open the door for every little offense to be added to an ever growing list of things you aren't allowed to do or say. Take me for example, I chose to self censor my words in this very post using (****) I made the conscious decision to hide my words, and didn't wait for the site to do it for me. Not everyone likes expletives, and I can respect that, but not everyone will. Not everyone respects every other person, besides themselves, and I've grown to accept that. I can block those people on Xbox Live, but not in PSO2. I can instead chose to leave the block they are in. I can choose who I spend my time with. Problematic people will find it harder to get into alliances, and find it harder to make real friends, and when they discover this, they can make the conscious decision to be a better person. But it has to be their choice. Do you get what I'm saying? Its a philosophical principle.

I get where your coming from, believe me. The world would be a better place without people like that, but code of conduct rules aren't to protect us, they are always made to protect the company from scrutiny. The more you try to enforce those rules, the more people will want their personal offenses dealt with, and the company will have to listen. PC players are already annoyed that height was censored in this game, preventing their character data from being imported from the JP servers. Height censorship which might have been to prevent people from making super short characters. Next might be outfits, because someone doesn't like how many choose to run around in bikinis. From there, entire topics, political or otherwise might get prevented. It only goes downhill from there. That's why I worry about blanket terms. Too many rules, are just as bad as too few.

The scam Bots are starting to get worse. Every 15 minutes as soon as I get into the lobby my chat gets filled up. Can we please start getting rid of these spam Bots.

scam Bots.JPG

@OldStrongSide That's why I said to the other person, that we need a block feature. Reporting every small infraction does more negative impacts than good, because one, it ruins someone's day, and two it spreads admin resources far too thinly, in regards to dealing with the bot accounts.

It's more than one person doing it, they make burner emails, and create multiple accounts, so that as they lose one, they just replace it with another. If the admins could focus their attention on that, it would be a lot harder for these scam artists to propagate themselves in almost all of the ship blocks. But instead, we have people reporting every little thing that offends them, creating a back log of issues to handle.

I agree with you on that there only so much admin support out there. We really do need a block future that would help a lot. Blacklisting the website would probably help too. So the website gets mentioned it would be an automatic ban. If that's possible to add something like that. Would it be hard to start IP block or ban?

@Anarchy-Marine said in How about fixing the scammer spammer problem?:

@ERICK001BC It's not my duty to police the server. Nor should it be yours, given the response you just gave. I'd never want to see you with any authority, in any worldly situation, because you would definitely abuse said power, over said authority.

Real issues in a server, are those that are toxic, I.E. those that spam, those that harass, and those that afk in urgent quests, potentially weakening the rest of the team's overall performance, and thus harming another users experience. Those are issues.

At what point do you get to dictate what is, and isn't allowed. The game has it's rules, but some of them only exist because of people like you that would take offense, not because they are actually something that would affect gameplay, when you can be an adult and walk away. And thus, I don't report every small thing, nor should anyone.

There are only so many admins in this game, and by reporting every little thing, you spread their resources further apart, and take away from their overall effectiveness at dealing with these bot accounts, bot accounts this thread is centered around. Anyone with basic common sense would see that much. The only other solution would be an automated system, but if you had spent any time in Xbox Live, you'd know how flawed and easily abused, such a system would be. So many issues would affect the player base in the general sense, that this game would die off.

Amen to this. I hate this argument that "it's the right thing to do". That is 100% a subjective concept and I hate when people try to push their morals onto others.

@OldStrongSide Blacklisting with a flagging feature would be better, than an auto ban. Algorithms have been shown to be too sensitive at times, and in the past auto banning via this route has been shown to be problematic. A flagging system however, might be a good way to begin tracking these bots. Say you combine the user reports data, with the flag, which then makes it easier for an admin to notice, and take action.

@GM-Bleed said in How about fixing the scammer spammer problem?:

Hello! Thank you for bringing this up. Please know that we do not tolerate offenders in-game. You may assist us by submitting a report to our support so we could provide sanction to these violators. Link: https://pso2.com/support#contact-us

I'm surprised you didn't mention the in-game report tool. Does that not work? It seems to be getting more frequent. I see them in the shopping area now as well.