DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..

@Yggranya said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

This is exactly what "elitism" is by the way. Show proof of doing the thing or get kicked. Casual? Get the fudge out of here!

Only a problem if all the new, better equipment is shoved there, which is the norm. If all the new, better equipment is not shoved there, nobody will play it. Sure, the "hardcore" players say they enjoy challenge, but that is only if they get rewarded for it. This has been proven time and again.

This is not what Expert Matching does on the Japanese version simply because the requirements are not that difficult. The requirements essentially check to see if the player has demonstrated being capable of handling content at a decent speed and are capable defeating particular enemies and upon doing so allows them to participate with players who have also completed these tasks.

I have played with several "casual" players who have met these requirements and it simply is a quality-of-life filter that separates you from the players who will throw an Emergency Quest just because they refuse to learn the game. You see significantly less turret-Bow Bravers who spam Million Storm as their only attack, significantly less Heroes who "fly to win" holding Rising Slash from enemy to enemy, and much stronger team synergy in general than compared to a non-expert matching session. If you have seen any of the Emergency Quest Buster Quests we have had on our end (Hostility and Madness, for example) you would have seen how high the failure rate is on Super Hard or how the Mining Defense tends to have rough patches of difficulty due to the team not fully pulling their weight.

I really do not believe we should have had to need something to filter out players who want to do well and players who just want to play around but there is quite a bit of content coming up in the future where the performance and overall score the entire session gets will determine their rank and rewards. The final Emergency Quest raid also disables returning to the Gateship upon dying so if you die and don't have any Scapedolls or your allies are out of Moon Atomizers you are forced to abort the fight.

This doesn't stop players who aren't in expert matching from playing the game and enjoying the content, but rather it does end up becoming noticeably more difficult when all of the capable of players are no longer largely carrying teams that rely on them. From my point of view-, this should hopefully encourage players to get better at their classes and gameplay if they wanted to succeed because this game has very few failure states (even those Emergency Quest Buster Quests still give rewards for failure).

My main concern about Expert Matching would be a fragmenting of the playerbase. UQs live and die on participation and it can lead to lesser populated ships or timeframes getting dead UQs for no reason other than a significant portion of players getting a bubble all to themselves.

One issue is that the content that you need to do for Expert Matching is substantially more difficult than the content that actually uses it. Everyone holds up Mining Base and Buster Quest as an example of how bad play ruins UQs, but in my experience it has never been a case of performance or gear; rather, a lack of map awareness and tunnel vision. The rest of the game does not teach you, nor necessitate, any kind of map awareness, and actually encourages tunnel vision (1v1 fight against Phaleg, what do you do? You focus 100% on the boss). So it's easy to see why players often run into issues in content that suddenly requires a similar attention span to a MOBA.

I fully agree with OP that a party finder sort of feature is a better idea. Not just because Expert Matching is a terrible fit for a game all about drop in multiplayer, but because it satisfies everyone and makes finding and compiling trigger parties so much easier.

@_Flux_ while party finder can be useful for triggers, but if you are looking for quick auto match-up to get multi-run urgent going you are going to need something like the expert matching to automatically separate player into different groups if you want to be picking and choosing people. It is very much dependent on the performance of players to be able to clear the content and get that extra run or 2 in.

Expert matching been in the game on JP since EP4 - March 2017. You can get runs with and without expert matching on no problem for urgents and limited quests. The game would have to be in a pretty sorry state for it to kill urgents

Personally I don't think Expert Matching is really all that great, because what it does is kind of make it so that new players essentially just get put into really crappy groups all the time.

However, the current system is not great either, because it's actually hard to meet people for gameplay reasons, and unless you already have friends/close alliance, you're just going to be doing public games.

What would be nice is a better way to meet people for gameplay related reasons instead of just having social blocks, but I don't think this will ever happen on PSO2. Named blocks would be a decent start though.

I dont see problems in expert matching, in fact I think it helps out with new players who want to learn a fight. Because if you go in an urgent quests, people just kill the boss so quickly before new players even had the time to figure out what they are supposed to do, a longer fight means a longer time where they would be learning the fight, a lot of my friends suffer from this problem where other people kill everything before they could, and in the end they dont get to learn how to play their class. I think expert matching would be a great thing to help late game players to clear the game faster, where new players would be matched with people at their level so they don't feel overwhelmed by what a late game player could do and actually have the chance to learn how to play their class.

@Rumi7364 said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

I think expert matching would be a great thing to help late game players to clear the game faster, where new players would be matched with people at their level so they don't feel overwhelmed by what a late game player could do and actually have the chance to learn how to play their class.

Additionally while I agree with the other points brought up that "Expert Matching" isn't a perfect or sufficient solution, the requirements to clear it (completing "Destroyers of Light" and "Phanatical Phantoms/Madness and Phantoms" both with an S-rank clear) is not very difficult if you know the content and know how to navigate these with your classes. Upon completing these Expert Matching is a checkbox that shows up whenever you walk into a quest so you can always opt-in or out when you want.

As we head into Ultra Hard territory the fights are much longer so players do have "more" time to learn but the problem is that this time-to-learn is also compounded with heavy punishment as taking a hit likely means dying very quickly. The difficulty is something I still find to be inconsistent because most boss fights on Extra Hard are manageable (they're not impossible and they're not extremely easy unless it's an older Episode 1-4 fight in general) but you get some Emergency Quests like the Mining Base/Buster Quests that are just about impossible on Super Hard due to the equipment/skill variance (Level 50 players being paired up to fight Level 70-75+ enemies on average) unless you legitimately had a large team of players who were immensely geared up at the level of the enemies and knew what was going on. Extra Hard ends up veering quite a bit from being a relatively "normal" feeling pace of the game's difficulty to suddenly becoming brutally difficult (for instance the Deus Esca rematch or the Black Fellwyrm when those had incapacitation limits) for one arbitrary reason or another. I feel a lot of this difficulty could have been handled more cleanly by better offering rewards to even the lower difficulties (so people on "Normal" can still get a Val weapon, for example, but at a lower drop rate). A lot of what Expert Matching does, at least in my opinion, could have been negated by letting the more casual players feel comfortable and less pressured in having to walk into difficulties they can't quite match to which I would not mind if the Difficulty Trials became more substantial similarly to how they were in the past without their grindy nature (back then you had to complete the Difficulty Trials by going to specific planets/locations and defeating enemies to collect resources and then to turn in those resources to finish the client orders).

If there was an incentive to play on normal I would imagine most players who are comfortable with playing casually would still be there instead of trying to leech off of Extra Hard. To make this work more nicely Extra Hard would have to get pushed up (but Ultra Hard does that already) to effectively become sweat-levels of effort and commitment so that it wasn't only three or five people who end up doing more than half of the overall damage the party has dealt in total like I recall the game tends to be. Having more failure states (or a higher floor required to pass) might just push players to lower difficulties and not feel so bad about it if they can still get some of the rewards while the players who anticipate the challenge can keep moving up. But unfortunately due to the way things are set up, Expert Matching creates that separation for the players because I do not feel Sega is all that interested in rebalancing the lower difficulties considering how it has been trivialized for years at this point.

@VanillaLucia said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

This doesn't stop players who aren't in expert matching from playing the game and enjoying the content, but rather it does end up becoming noticeably more difficult when all of the capable of players are no longer largely carrying teams that rely on them. From my point of view-, this should hopefully encourage players to get better at their classes and gameplay if they wanted to succeed because this game has very few failure states (even those Emergency Quest Buster Quests still give rewards for failure).

I doubt it is about people not learning the game, but the fact that they get rewarded regardless of their own performance and of course it isn't very encouraging to try to learn anything if someone with double the level requirement enters a low difficulty version and oneshots everything with OP weapons. It isn't a good excuse, but it is what it is.

If they will still get rewarded for doing nothing, nothing will change. As in, someone who watches netflix while occasionally doing a normal attack and dying constantly gets the same rewards as the other one(s) who actually did their best. This is stupid, but the developers can't really put some DPS checks or number of enemy killed when there aren't any level/equipment limits. So again, it is what it is.

@Yggranya said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

If they will still get rewarded for doing nothing, nothing will change. As in, someone who watches netflix while occasionally doing a normal attack and dying constantly gets the same rewards as the other one(s) who actually did their best. This is stupid, but the developers can't really put some DPS checks or number of enemy killed when there aren't any level/equipment limits. So again, it is what it is.

IIRC drops are affected by your completion rank. So they really aren't getting rewarded if they keep getting wiped while they afk. Plus the EP6 final boss doesn't let you come back from the ship, so if someone afks and dies twice you can just not res them and they have to buy an actual scape or get zero loot.

As someone who had played JP with expert matching for a long while... it has its pros and cons.

On one hand, it's good for people who don't want a time-limited UQ to fail, and provides good incentive to "git gud" so you can have faster, easier runs. But on the other, it really put newer players in a horrible spot- they can't progress nearly as easily because all the quests they're grouped with are just awful without a handful of stronger players carrying the party. Often times they couldn't find a group for non-UQ content at all, because the only people farming content locked their groups to expert-only. The end result was that the vast majority of players started using cheese methods to clear the expert matching reqs just to be able to actually play the game.

In my opinion? If expert matching is implemented, it should be for UQs only, and that's entirely due to their short notice, limited time nature.. It shouldn't exist for other content at all. For other content, you have all the time in the world to organize with other experts if you desire speedy runs.

Oh, they aren't just for UQs?

Great. And here I have a hard enough time already filling rooms for non-UQs. Hopefully Episode 6 comes with a hefty population boost, because unless I'm doing something very wrong it doesn't seem like NA could sustain a fragmented playerbase right now.

@AiC-L Sure they are, if they are farming FUN. Does anyone know how much FUN point you get when you get rescued by moon atomizer? I never use moon atomizers, but there is always someone who does. Always. Never seen someone face down in the dirt for more than a max of 10 seconds.

Well, at least i can take heart in the fact that i don't improve their rewards.

@Yggranya I don't think you get FUN for being ressed though? I know you get 20 for being the one to res someone if that's what you're thinking of.

@AiC-L I don't know, as i haven't checked. I don't die often, but next time i will see for myself. I simply assume they get some, considering how often i see someone without any units and they seem to just run face first into all enemy attacks. I check their equipment if they get one-shotted. I'm sure they have some excuse ready, so asking for a reason is pointless. It's most often a lie anyway.

@Yggranya said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

Does anyone know how much FUN point you get when you get rescued by moon atomizer?

You don't. You only get 20 FUN for resurrecting someone. It's far faster to farm FUN by exchanging excubes.

@coldreactive Huh. Well then... I have no idea what inspires people to commit suicide over and over.