DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..

@airoh2197 said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

@Ilúvatar "Some classes have a very difficult time with this requirement." - I don't know about that. Since the current expert requirements have been implemented, we've gained hugely powerful tiers of gear (and even gained a new difficulty level, Ultra Hard) - so being tasked with clearing two Extra Hard quests, with even baseline15* weapons (which were recently buffed, I might add) isn't exceptionally difficult provided you have a grasp of your class's invincibility/guard frames and understand which situations to use your various offensive options in.

It is still very difficult to meet the current JP expert requirements when you mainly play TE/HU. I eventually gave up and cheesed it with ET.

Anyway, to the point at hand, I think the expert system is fine (not perfect, but passable), so I won't mind seeing it in NA, as long as they start with reasonable requirements.

To those saying it is unnecessary, it matters more for some EQs than others. For some future content, you will really want to play with people who know what they are doing.

@Ilúvatar said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

@airoh2197 said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

@Ilúvatar "Some classes have a very difficult time with this requirement." - I don't know about that. Since the current expert requirements have been implemented, we've gained hugely powerful tiers of gear (and even gained a new difficulty level, Ultra Hard) - so being tasked with clearing two Extra Hard quests, with even baseline15* weapons (which were recently buffed, I might add) isn't exceptionally difficult provided you have a grasp of your class's invincibility/guard frames and understand which situations to use your various offensive options in.

It is still very difficult to meet the current JP expert requirements when you mainly play TE/HU. I eventually gave up and cheesed it with ET.

Uhh, I was going to say that there likely was a class/class combo which could cheese it that'd be posted publicly that'd make any tests laughable, but you already brought it up.

@Kos Anyone with a brain who has any knowledge of both games knows that the mechanics of the content dont matter, the party finder tool is applied to before the content even begins at all, and thus the differences dont make any difference in this case. your argument has nothing to stand on.

@ZeeHero9271 said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

The Expert grouping system on Japans servers is fundamentally flawed and broken in its design, encouraging elitism instead of helping players find other players who meet their specific expectations.

FFXIV has a far, FAR better tool for grouping, known simply as party finder. this easy tool allows ANY player to set their own expectations for forming their own groups. Is some elitist idiot expecting ridiculous things? leave him to wait forever for anyone to join, and form your own, more realistic group.

Copy the FFXIV party finder as best you can, do not repeat the mistake of expert grouping.

Completely different games in just about every aspect bud. Maybe take the time to better yourself as a pso2 gamer and you wont have to worry about "elitism" in a game where the only skill cap is ones own mental capacity~

As for forming groups , maybe find an alliance that actually cares to help out players to obtain the titles needed to even do expert....

(Waits for the Actually!!)

@ZeeHero9271 said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

@Kos Anyone with a brain who has any knowledge of both games knows that the mechanics of the content dont matter, the party finder tool is applied to before the content even begins at all, and thus the differences dont make any difference in this case. your argument has nothing to stand on.

The mechanics of the content DO matter. A lot. FF14 is a traditional MMO where you can do its content whenever you like. PSO2 is not that, you can only do UQs when they happen and a party finder would NOT help with that whatsoever because people don't all base their schedule around a single game.

It's debatable if it would even work for the other content in the game. Ultimate? You just run around in circle killing things until you decide it's time to stop, you can't expect everyone that joins you to go by your own terms for this. AQs and other 4 player content? Well guess what there's something similar enough for that and nobody bothers with it, so what would a dedicated one do different?

Maybe explain WHY you think YOUR argument for is has legs to stand on instead? Because it sure as hell doesn't if you know how PSO2 actually works as a game.

This is not FFXIV. This is a different game. I understand your point and I agree, as much as I personally dislike Expert due to the rising toxicity of "you must have 8sl units or ur trash lol" or "8sl augmentation is a must lol ur bad don't want u in my party", I have to side with the others on that the game design itself do require coordination and teamwork to complete future UQs. A fine example is Apprentice Fight and Demise Armada that shows up way later on. It's not as OCD as FFXIV but as others have said you do have to know what you're doing.

There's no reason to compare different games to each other when the two have different setups. The expectation will never happen as much as people want it to. That's up to SEGA to decide. Not us.

I am not going to tell you to "git gud" or some immature things like that. But sadly, that's how PSO2 is set up at EP5 and forward. Even if I don't like it I have to accept it.

Man, must be tough to find an alliance to do content with

I don't like the concept of the "expert" system, but it is necessary for certain EQs, and I also don't think it has much of an impact most of the time.

The only current JP content where expert matchmaking is truly necessary is VR Mining Base because the mining bases get destroyed much more easily in the newer version, and it's a hard failure condition which results in no rewards (as opposed to AIS Magatsu which still gives you something). The vast majority of content I've played has not necessitated expert matchmaking at all, particularly not Boss EQs, which seem to be the main source of griping on NA. The only reason SH Luther is a problem in NA is because its HP was tripled.

The expert system is indeed a band-aid, but I think that replacing it with FFXIV's matchmaking system would just be replacing it with a fancier band-aid, because FFXIV (at least on NA) has its fair share of elitism, as well. That's the main reason I stopped playing, actually, because the competency of your party members matters so much more in FFXIV, giving much more weight to elitism in that game. It tends to be very easy to carry party members in PSO2 by comparison.

Anyways, have you actually ever seen any elitism from actual Japanese PSO2 players? Most of the people I've met are pretty friendly, even the dudes with insanely powerful equipment. I won't say there aren't elitists on JP, but openly vocal elitism is a uniquely NA thing. It's more of a community issue than a game design issue, and it's not going to go away just by introducing party finder.

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@lilyraineve said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

I don't like the concept of the "expert" system, but it is necessary for certain EQs, and I also don't think it has much of an impact most of the time.

The only current JP content where expert matchmaking is truly necessary is VR Mining Base because the mining bases get destroyed much more easily in the newer version, and it's a hard failure condition which results in no rewards (as opposed to AIS Magatsu which still gives you something). The vast majority of content I've played has not necessitated expert matchmaking at all, particularly not Boss EQs, which seem to be the main source of griping on NA. The only reason SH Luther is a problem in NA is because its HP was tripled.

The expert system is indeed a band-aid, but I think that replacing it with FFXIV's matchmaking system would just be replacing it with a fancier band-aid, because FFXIV (at least on NA) has its fair share of elitism, as well. That's the main reason I stopped playing, actually, because the competency of your party members matters so much more in FFXIV, giving much more weight to elitism in that game. It tends to be very easy to carry party members in PSO2 by comparison.

Anyways, have you actually ever seen any elitism from actual Japanese PSO2 players? Most of the people I've met are pretty friendly, even the dudes with insanely powerful equipment. I won't say there aren't elitists on JP, but openly vocal elitism is a uniquely NA thing. It's more of a community issue than a game design issue, and it's not going to go away just by introducing party finder.

SPOT ON! Most of the JP players i played with were / still are super chill, and actually pretty comical. I've met a few NA players in JP wanting to be try-hards but "try-harding" in pso2 is also comical in its own sense 🙂 Great post

@Ilúvatar said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

It is still very difficult to meet the current JP expert requirements when you mainly play TE/HU. I eventually gave up and cheesed it with ET.

Anyway, to the point at hand, I think the expert system is fine (not perfect, but passable), so I won't mind seeing it in NA, as long as they start with reasonable requirements.

To those saying it is unnecessary, it matters more for some EQs than others. For some future content, you will really want to play with people who know what they are doing.

While I can see TE/HU having problems with the current expert requirement, TE/PH or TE/ET can clear it just fine (the 2 bosses quest, these 2 class combos can rely on techs to save time in the last parts of the 2nd boss, to attack his core when he's far away).

You see, the problem is that I've never learned how to dodge anything because Resta, but it turns out playing like that is actually very slow.

Thankfully ET solves this problem by tanking everything and not giving a damn.

i hope we get expert block.

@ZeeHero9271 said in DO NOT RELEASE EXPERT GROUPING ON NA! Instead do this..:

The Expert grouping system on Japans servers is fundamentally flawed and broken in its design, encouraging elitism instead of helping players find other players who meet their specific expectations.

FFXIV has a far, FAR better tool for grouping, known simply as party finder. this easy tool allows ANY player to set their own expectations for forming their own groups. Is some elitist idiot expecting ridiculous things? leave him to wait forever for anyone to join, and form your own, more realistic group.

Copy the FFXIV party finder as best you can, do not repeat the mistake of expert grouping.

sorry for necroing the thread but yeah how about we don't copy the game that handholds the casualest of casuals and dumbs things down harder and harder every expansion

i'd rather play a game that stays far the **** away from what FFXIV does because that game's systems are the definiton of "everyone's a winner" - i know it's 2020 but i'd like at least some of the games i play to not fit that mould.

also, as an FF14 player you're kidding yourself if you think party finder does it's job. people in NA are selfish and don't care whether or not they fit the criteria, if they see a party they're going to join whether they're the best player on the planet or the worst player on the planet, whether they know the fight like the back of the hand or they can't tell their ass from their elbow. doesn't matter what requirements you jot down in the description because they ain't reading that and if they do they'll ignore it and join regardless of who they are.

Next thing you'll say is remove alliances because they form cliques and isolate you from getting carried by the people who are better and have better gear. Leeching is bad and so is coming to content with the minimum requirements. Also don't give me the "muh class disparity" excuse, you can change classes AT ANY MOMENT.

Get good or get filtered.