Mag Skills Stack ;) (Bouncer Mag, Braver Mag, Phantom Mag)

Not entirely sure why people are dissing the Br/Bo and Bo/BR builds. Because of the stacked Mag effects a pure DEX mag will give that character 200 RNG, 200 TEC, and a whopping 400 MEL. Katana and Soaring Blades both use MEL PWR and the "Strike Switch" skill refocuses Jet Boots to draw on MEL PWR and although this won't draw on the Mag's DEX-conversion it will benefit from augments/affixes, etc. that boost MEL making it much easier to focus on boosting one stat while still giving that 200 TEC boost for casting. Granted if you're focusing on the Bow or casting Techs as your primary offense then yea, these aren't ideal class combos, but for focusing on the melee weapons I wouldn't scoff at getting that bonus 200 PWR.

@zaffy2005 It is mostly due to the conditional nature of the two classes' multipliers being rather cumbersome together. The extra 200 MEL-Pwr you get does not make up for the lackluster combination of stances compared to using Hunter or Fighter as a sub, not only in terms of multipliers but also ease of conditions.

Since we are in the Bouncer subforum, let's assume that you are maining that and look at look at Braver, Hunter, and Fighter as a sub (we'll assume Jet Boots are being used with Switch Strike).

    • Basic Stance + Basic Stance Up: 126.5% Damage Multiplier
    • Precision Stance + Precision Stance Up (hitting a physical weak point): 148.5% Damage Multiplier
    • Precision Stance (not hitting a physical weak point): 100% Damage Multiplier

    • Fury Stance + Fury Stance Up 1&2 + Perfect Fury Bonus + Perfect Attack Bonus 1&2: ~176% Damage Multiplier
    • Fury Stance + Fury Stance Up 1&2 (did not get Perfect Attack timing): 132% Damage Multiplier
    • Guard Stance (no access to Advanced Guard Stance with Hunter as sub): 100% Damage Multiplier

    • Valiant Stance + Valiant Stance Up + Tech Arts Perfect Attack Bonus (from the front): ~177% Damage Multiplier
    • Valiant Stance + Valiant Stance Up (from the front, did not combo): 154% Damage Multiplier
    • Valiant Stance (from behind, did not combo): 135% Damage Multiplier
    • Valiant Stance + Tech Arts Perfect Attack Bonus (from behind): 155.25% Damage Multiplier
    • Wise Stance + Wise Stance Up + Tech Arts Perfect Attack Bonus (from behind): ~202% Damage Multiplier
    • Wise Stance + Wise Stance Up (from behind, did not combo): 175.5% Damage Multiplier
    • Wise Stance (from the front, did not combo): 130% Damage Multiplier
    • Wise Stance + Tech Arts Perfect Attack Bonus (from the front): 149.5% Damage Multiplier

Now that we see the multiplier difference, let's take into account character stats, including the extra MEL from Braver Mag, but no extra Melee PWR Up Skills (aside from the 3 points you need in Fighter's Tree). We'll say lv80/80 Male Deuman with a 200 DEX Mag, using Nemesis JBs, no augments, with all lv75 Title Bonuses. Here is how they stack up (using the italicized scenarios above and Elemental Stance):

alt text

Damage Calculator

As you can see, the extra 200 MEL-Pwr does not make up for the weaker multipliers, and add to that that Braver doesn't have as many good utility Skills compared to Hunter in particular.

@AndrlCh So, definitely not winning any awards for DPS. Still, having both the Jet Boots and Bow has been quite nice, having reliable close, mid, and long range utility (even if not "optimal"). Kinda hoping there are more "scion/successor" classes in the works that will continue the trend of mixing up the weapon styles. Still haven't found my ideal "battle mage" just yet, but Bouncer definitely has the nimbleness I'm looking for. Just hard to balance PA and Tech use without having to shuffle through sub-pallets, which isn't a very "intuitive" process on controller. A keypad makes it easier to use the individual commands on the current sub-pallet without having to scroll through one by one left or right and then activate it with the control stick but I tend to fill up one sub pallet entirely with "utility" commands on Tec-based classes. Moon, Anti, Resta, Shifta, Deband, that takes up half of it right there, then PB, Megiverse, and any class skills or combo Techs generally take up the rest. For Bouncer I'd probably want one sub-pallet with a Tech of every element type to activate the elemental change, or conversely have a different sub-pallet set up for each individual element, and maybe that's the way to go since there isn't usually any need for switching between multiple elements in a single mission but that would mean either losing all the "utilities" to have the widest variety of techs on standby or else only having 2-3 techs at the ready per element. There's got to be a faster way to swap sub-pallets besides using the D-pad to pull up the weapon pallet, then swap to sub-pallets, then scroll to the sub-pallet I want, use whatever it is I need off it, then go through that all over again to swap back.

Which is why I don't get much "combo" action going with PAs, especially for weapons that have a "weapon action" as 90% of the time I don't even want to break my concentration enough to use the 3-button's "back pallet" in the middle of a fight.

I'm reading that the advanced classes can not have a sub class and can not be chosen as a subclass. Is this not true?

i like the idea of BO/PH, so i hope your right.

@PlXELSTYX Hero, Phantom, Etoile, and Luster cannot use a subclass, but Phantom, Etoile, and Luster can be used as a subclass.

The line that you are likely reading near the bottom is specifically for Hero, which is the only class that cannot be used as a subclass.