Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.

Is this a widescale issue or just a few cases?

I think 'fire' is a bit of an over-reach for a few issues...

EDIT: Reading more of the thread I see it's not a few, but a widespread issue)

So...

That said, if I compare this to FFXIV, there's a notable difference. I'm of the opinion that in FFXIV, the English version is actually better written than the JP version - but it's a feedback loop as their English localization team is located in Tokyo and (prior to the current world issues) worked in the same office - and it was done at the same time as the JP version. As in, the localizers were also part of the original writing process. One result of that is things like humor - moments like that were given dual approaches not just for language, but to be funny in multiple cultures. Things like tone, innuendo, etc differ in the versions - but for the purpose of wide appeal, and the story ends up in the same place.

(Basically I'm saying the localization that was done for FFXIV should serve as a model for the 'best possible example' for future game devs around the world.)

Here we're looking at people coming in 8+ years later, and most likely not seen as core team members. They're probably contractors.

If over time anything hurts the NA games appeal, it will be that - that we're much more obviously an after thought and not seen as a shared part of the core customer audience.

Slips like the above are probably just a 'good enough to keep the game moving to the next point' issue... The translation contractors were likely assigned the task of filling in names in some part of the database, but not assigned the task of writing items descriptions for everything.

The blame for this does not fall on the translators... I agree with those who say it would fall on SEGA. They're the ones who would have assigned what translation teams would work on, but I disagree on blaming MicroSoft - I suspect MS's only involvement here was to make a build that would run their app store (which they failed at... initially, but that's a wholly different topic).

It's pretty obvious they prioritized dub lines and some main story. Other item descriptors were left as place holders so it tells me that the translation itself was rushed since they were trying to hit deadlines, but that really doesn't excuse the sloppiness of it.

Hopefully it gets fixed in the next update or so. If not, then I think you can really claim that it's lazy translation.

@Kichwas said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

Is this a widescale issue or just a few cases?

I think 'fire' is a bit of an over-reach for a few issues...

EDIT: Reading more of the thread I see it's not a few, but a widespread issue)

So...

That said, if I compare this to FFXIV, there's a notable difference. I'm of the opinion that in FFXIV, the English version is actually better written than the JP version - but it's a feedback loop as their English localization team is located in Tokyo and (prior to the current world issues) worked in the same office - and it was done at the same time as the JP version. As in, the localizers were also part of the original writing process. One result of that is things like humor - moments like that were given dual approaches not just for language, but to be funny in multiple cultures. Things like tone, innuendo, etc differ in the versions - but for the purpose of wide appeal, and the story ends up in the same place.

(Basically I'm saying the localization that was done for FFXIV should serve as a model for the 'best possible example' for future game devs around the world.)

Here we're looking at people coming in 8+ years later, and most likely not seen as core team members. They're probably contractors.

If over time anything hurts the NA games appeal, it will be that - that we're much more obviously an after thought and not seen as a shared part of the core customer audience.

Slips like the above are probably just a 'good enough to keep the game moving to the next point' issue... The translation contractors were likely assigned the task of filling in names in some part of the database, but not assigned the task of writing items descriptions for everything.

The blame for this does not fall on the translators... I agree with those who say it would fall on SEGA. They're the ones who would have assigned what translation teams would work on, but I disagree on blaming MicroSoft - I suspect MS's only involvement here was to make a build that would run their app store (which they failed at... initially, but that's a wholly different topic).

And it worries me. If there's any weight to what I've said before about games like this attracting lore enthusiasts, they will definitely flee to better written games like FFXIV after seeing what's done here and leave this one to die a premature death. While I have no problems with the FF series (I played a few but do not play the current ones), I simply loved Phantasy Star's space adventure setting. It'd be a shame that we get a less quality version and that this lack of quality also contributes to the game's demise.

@2B common items were given a generic placeholder (easy enough to automate, if class x, print x)

The materials for trading all have proper translations cause they had to be touched individually.

The dub in some parts was done without proper grammar... and the voice actress is a native English speaker. Wonder what she thought.

"uh.. this is definitely not right but I totally want this gig so just gonna roll with it"

@Lvost1990X said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

Technically, he is right in a way. He stated a good portion of the player's won't really care about the flavour text - which is entirely correct because the only people that do care about small things like these in which you have stated "People do care about---" are normally people who RP or lore lovers. And the RP community is small in terms of the majority of the community. So he's not wrong.

Going back to my FFXIV example though...

Because they put localization right alongside the JP - such that neither is actually the original - the flavor text is detailed in both.

A result of this is that Yoshi-P, lead dev for FFXIV, commented in one interview that he gets vastly more lore questions from NA players over anywhere else, JP, EU, or otherwise.

It wasn't just hardcore RPers, he's found out that players of all types in NA at least - do read that stuff, and start to care about it. Moreso than his fellow JP folks.

So missing that content in an NA localization is a very bad move if your goal is to get a game to grow into a long-term product there.

@Kichwas said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Lvost1990X said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

Technically, he is right in a way. He stated a good portion of the player's won't really care about the flavour text - which is entirely correct because the only people that do care about small things like these in which you have stated "People do care about---" are normally people who RP or lore lovers. And the RP community is small in terms of the majority of the community. So he's not wrong.

Going back to my FFXIV example though...

Because they put localization right alongside the JP - such that neither is actually the original - the flavor text is detailed in both.

A result of this is that Yoshi-P, lead dev for FFXIV, commented in one interview that he gets vastly more lore questions from NA players over anywhere else, JP, EU, or otherwise.

It wasn't just hardcore RPers, he's found out that players of all types in NA at least - do read that stuff, and start to care about it. Moreso than his fellow JP folks.

So missing that content in an NA localization is a very bad move if your goal is to get a game to grow into a long-term product there.

Right. But FFXIV is a triple A MMO. And a younger audience certaintly doesn't play FFXIV. You won't see 13-16 y/o on FFXIV compared to PSO2. FFXIV playerbase is mainly older people. And i myself absolutely love the story behind FFXIV.

It would be cool if we could get the same tools used to translate the JP server on the NA server. I'd translate the bad translate the bad translation into a good translation.

@Kichwas The problem here is that SEGA usually tends to prioritize the Japanese market over the Western market... the only time SEGA of America usually has a say in things is with Sonic titles. This is the reason why for instance, unlike Namco and Capcom, SEGA had an inconsistent history when it comes to PC ports and odd platform choices for certain games.

Now, the way that PSO2 is run right now is a minor improvement from what their original plan was for the original 2013 release; to give SEGA of America their own separate server and game client and give them updates over time. In comparison to that, the Japanese team are the ones responsible for running PSO2 NA... and contrary to what was said, Microsoft is not as heavily involved as you assume they are.

Microsoft paid for the game to be released in the West and on Xbox One, let SEGA use their MS Azure infrastructure and hired the localization company, Lionbridge Technology... which, before we go pointing fingers, do in fact have a history with some well done localizations and the people they hired to localize the game are certainly not inexperienced... as one guy brought up here, the quality of the localization may ultimately be down to a combination of time constraints and too many people being involved with limited communication.

Ultimately... after Lionbridge Technologies have done their part in localizing and dubbing, its down to Online R&D (PSO2's Dev Team at SEGA of Japan) to actually implement the data into the NA game client that they build and put on the MS Store.

@ZorokiHanuke said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Kichwas said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

Is this a widescale issue or just a few cases?

I think 'fire' is a bit of an over-reach for a few issues...

EDIT: Reading more of the thread I see it's not a few, but a widespread issue)

So...

That said, if I compare this to FFXIV, there's a notable difference. I'm of the opinion that in FFXIV, the English version is actually better written than the JP version - but it's a feedback loop as their English localization team is located in Tokyo and (prior to the current world issues) worked in the same office - and it was done at the same time as the JP version. As in, the localizers were also part of the original writing process. One result of that is things like humor - moments like that were given dual approaches not just for language, but to be funny in multiple cultures. Things like tone, innuendo, etc differ in the versions - but for the purpose of wide appeal, and the story ends up in the same place.

(Basically I'm saying the localization that was done for FFXIV should serve as a model for the 'best possible example' for future game devs around the world.)

Here we're looking at people coming in 8+ years later, and most likely not seen as core team members. They're probably contractors.

If over time anything hurts the NA games appeal, it will be that - that we're much more obviously an after thought and not seen as a shared part of the core customer audience.

Slips like the above are probably just a 'good enough to keep the game moving to the next point' issue... The translation contractors were likely assigned the task of filling in names in some part of the database, but not assigned the task of writing items descriptions for everything.

The blame for this does not fall on the translators... I agree with those who say it would fall on SEGA. They're the ones who would have assigned what translation teams would work on, but I disagree on blaming MicroSoft - I suspect MS's only involvement here was to make a build that would run their app store (which they failed at... initially, but that's a wholly different topic).

And it worries me. If there's any weight to what I've said before about games like this attracting lore enthusiasts, they will definitely flee to better written games like FFXIV after seeing what's done here and leave this one to die a premature death. While I have no problems with the FF series (I played a few but do not play the current ones), I simply loved Phantasy Star's space adventure setting. It'd be a shame that we get a less quality version and that this lack of quality also contributes to the game's demise.

It really is like watching PSO1 game doing quests with no conversation texts, or Rico's logs or just no item descriptions.

@LapisWave said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Maxwell said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@LapisWave They just lick the boot which isn’t a good thing we need to hold them accountable so we have a healthy game but they don’t care since after 8 years they got to play a game that came out in 2012

Ikr? Its like they think we don't care about the game or something. If i didn't care, I would not make this thread to bring it to attention

I think its pretty obvious what side of the coin doesn't care about this server.

Playerbase

  • Helped people through technical issues when SEGA wouldn't.
  • Helped promote and develop the tweaker so more people could play.
  • Created media content to help hype the game.
  • Continually reporting bugs.
  • Pushing to make NA server a better and proper PSO2 server.

Developers

  • Told players to contact Microsoft to solve their issues (They eventually did make an announcement with a few generic fixes that were already discovered by the community)
  • Cut corners at every possible opportunity (Translation, cash shop items, basic cash items missing)
  • Made terrible uncalled for bad changes for seemingly no reason. (Restricting character height in the creator, removed the in game friends program, etc)
  • Refusal of communication with the playerbase on any of these hot topics listed above (The remove height restrictions topic has 318 posts and 2.4k views, it has not been addressed at all)
  • Refusal to take any moderation action on certain subjects (Inappropriate symbol, Meseta seller bots in game, etc etc)

So yeah, just as you said. The players have shown passion and a strive to make this server good, in my opinion its the devs who have lost that passion and it really, REALLY shows.

@Lvost1990X said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Maxwell said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Lvost1990X That absolutely makes no sense again they were given a job that doesn’t mean you get to half-ass the job because your personal opinion while doing is “hey no one really reads it so why bother” try doing that for a corporation & see how fast they see you out.

Also the statement about different audiences is rather incoherent because you’re just pulling your stats out thin air. I can say certainly that this game has a wide audience based off of Sega JPs monthly feedback emails sent to those registered so let’s not generalize to make your opinion valid because that’s a strawman

Because i'm looking at it from a logical standpoint and taking into consideration multiple possibilities. Which apparently, you can't comprehend and instead attack me about it. I'm not looking to make my opinions valid, i'm merely stating possible scenarios and not looking straight one way like a deer looking into headlights.

Besides, you know nothing of the job they were given. They could have been paid crap or been told by SEGA not to go all out. You don't know nothing, nobody does. That's why we form these "Scenarios" or ideas as to why. But in the end, it shouldn't have been this way.

Ok no for one pulling out random unconfirmed statistics is not in any form “logical” which again is why I said it’s incoherent but it’s baseless. You can make or have multiple viewpoints but don’t push this narrative that it’s the correct way especially when it’s regarding the lack of someone doing their job.

Lastly to rehash this again now you pivot to another baseless assertion which honestly looks like virtue signaling with the what-aboutism regarding their pay. You can bring up as many hypothetical situations to boost your argument but know this, that is the literal definition of a strawman & therefore you’re a waste of time now.

You get a job, you do that job and do not cut corners; if your contract sucks then renegotiate it but nonetheless you do the job right and don’t & don’t spit in our faces with half-ass work.

Thanks have a nice day.

@Leonkh99 said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Kichwas Microsoft paid for the game to be released in the West and on Xbox One, let SEGA use their MS Azure infrastructure and hired the localization company, Lionbridge Technology... which, before we go pointing fingers, do in fact have a history with some well done localizations and the people they hired to localize the game are certainly not inexperienced... as one guy brought up here, the quality of the localization may ultimately be down to a combination of time constraints and too many people being involved with limited communication.

Ultimately... after Lionbridge Technologies have done their part in localizing and dubbing, its down to Online R&D (PSO2's Dev Team at SEGA of Japan) to actually implement the data into the NA game client that they build and put on the MS Store.

Maybe you have me crossed with someone else there or maybe I misspoke.

My perception of MicroSoft is that all they did was compile the code handed to them for their store. They did a deployment of the build. I highly doubt they did anything more. The only place we can assign blame to them is with the launch day fiasco's and things like people's hard-drives getting messed up.

  • big issues, but not game issues. Ie: different topic.

But you're saying Microsoft paid to put out the game. That would change things and make them a major stakeholder and the chief source of fault for any issues we're facing.

Who hired Lionbridge?

@Maxwell said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Lvost1990X said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Maxwell said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Lvost1990X That absolutely makes no sense again they were given a job that doesn’t mean you get to half-ass the job because your personal opinion while doing is “hey no one really reads it so why bother” try doing that for a corporation & see how fast they see you out.

Also the statement about different audiences is rather incoherent because you’re just pulling your stats out thin air. I can say certainly that this game has a wide audience based off of Sega JPs monthly feedback emails sent to those registered so let’s not generalize to make your opinion valid because that’s a strawman

Because i'm looking at it from a logical standpoint and taking into consideration multiple possibilities. Which apparently, you can't comprehend and instead attack me about it. I'm not looking to make my opinions valid, i'm merely stating possible scenarios and not looking straight one way like a deer looking into headlights.

Besides, you know nothing of the job they were given. They could have been paid crap or been told by SEGA not to go all out. You don't know nothing, nobody does. That's why we form these "Scenarios" or ideas as to why. But in the end, it shouldn't have been this way.

Ok no for one pulling out random unconfirmed statistics is not in any form “logical” which again is why I said it’s incoherent but it’s baseless. You can make or have multiple viewpoints but don’t push this narrative that it’s the correct way especially when it’s regarding the lack of someone doing their job.

Lastly to rehash this again now you pivot to another baseless assertion which honestly looks like virtue signaling with the what-aboutism regarding their pay. You can bring up as many hypothetical situations to boost your argument but know this, that is the literal definition of a strawman & therefore you’re a waste of time now.

You get a job, you do that job and do not cut corners; if your contract sucks then renegotiate it but nonetheless you do the job right and don’t & don’t spit in our faces with half-ass work.

Thanks have a nice day.

Ugh, talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You're need to feel superior. I'm guessing you have a superiority-complex if you think i'm virtue signaling which by the way - isn't. And as far as your strawman's go in terms of strawman fallacy, i'm not distorting or mis-representating or trying to break up anything OP says. I'm clearly stating reasons as to WHY possibly this may have happened this way while agreeing that yes, it shouldn't have been this way.

Also you state that "Different audiences" is incoherent but then you state "This game has a wide audience based off SEGAJP emails registered". Ok. I mean, i'm not just talking about JP only but hey - A wider audience means a broader audience which in terms are...different audience's in general. Thank you for agreeing with me.

Lastly as for the job. You are correct. However that's not the case anymore it seems. Take for example Bethesda. But it could also be SEGA's fault. But hey, that's just another strawman.

@Kichwas said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Leonkh99 said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

@Kichwas Microsoft paid for the game to be released in the West and on Xbox One, let SEGA use their MS Azure infrastructure and hired the localization company, Lionbridge Technology... which, before we go pointing fingers, do in fact have a history with some well done localizations and the people they hired to localize the game are certainly not inexperienced... as one guy brought up here, the quality of the localization may ultimately be down to a combination of time constraints and too many people being involved with limited communication.

Ultimately... after Lionbridge Technologies have done their part in localizing and dubbing, its down to Online R&D (PSO2's Dev Team at SEGA of Japan) to actually implement the data into the NA game client that they build and put on the MS Store.

Maybe you have me crossed with someone else there or maybe I misspoke.

My perception of MicroSoft is that all they did was compile the code handed to them for their store. They did a deployment of the build. I highly doubt they did anything more. The only place we can assign blame to them is with the launch day fiasco's and things like people's hard-drives getting messed up.

  • big issues, but not game issues. Ie: different topic.

But you're saying Microsoft paid to put out the game. That would change things and make them a major stakeholder and the chief source of fault for any issues we're facing.

Who hired Lionbridge?

Wrong - He stated it in the end. "Ultimately... after Lionbridge Technologies have done their part in localizing and dubbing, its down to Online R&D (PSO2's Dev Team at SEGA of Japan) to actually implement the data into the NA game client that they build and put on the MS Store." So SEGA's Dev Team of Japan would technically be responsible. Don't take my word on it but from reading that, i guess that's how it is.

@Zizel said in Game Devs Should Fire the Item Description Translator for Scamming and Cheating for their Paycheck.:

So yeah, just as you said. The players have shown passion and a strive to make this server good, in my opinion its the devs who have lost that passion and it really, REALLY shows.

This. Despite the road map, which people have demanded for so long time, there hasn't really been a single communication on what they are going to fix. It's just "we have forwarded to the team". But like what did they really forwarded is my question.

I hope the new patches will fix them, but we all know that it's grain of salt with a possible false hope of getting it updated.