Super Hard content,get in it when you have the damn gear.

i can certainly say sheq is a mess, i am leveling my ranger right now, this will be my 3rd 75 since starting with the pc launch, i must say its fun, but on the OP's post, its not just "low level" players ive seen ppl in basic gear in ultimate at 75/75, im posting this SS of my gear, i put this on from lvl 20 and because i join the next difficulty at minimum level, people are only see "oh its a lowbie" and make a snap judgement, this is what SOME lowbies have equipped, its not just sheq its ultimate too, ex it kinda bad, but the truth is, there is not enough information, i am not a jp vet, ive had to learn everything from feeding my mag correctly to get 200 in a single stat, building class's and subs correctly, most people put 10-20 points in r/m/t-atk thats a huge loss when you cap and do the extra point quests, ive learnt about set bonus's with arms and how important augments are, and choosing the right weapon with the right, i want to say hidden augment when you get it to lvl 10, im probably wrong also leveling pets, candy box's, the swap shop is my best friend, the difference between getting it right and getting it wrong is huge and its a costly mistake, there is 0 help ingame, i prefer it that way. the most important part ppl need to know that i see all the time is set bonus's and right weapon choice, take the dalz varly (bow) for e.g. its a 12* with an insane dmg booster, even level 1 its 30%. even in ultimate i see people using Nox's or less, a nox is the same price as a single daily order. alt text

This is why i feel cross play may not have been the best thing, let the xboxer's have their version and let the pc players have theirs. I think since pc players had to wait much longer for their version then the least they could get would be a fresh start on a level playing field and not have to hear about xboxer's crying about how much cross play is destroying their experience. Guess what we don't want to destroy your experience nor do we want to have you 'teach' us how to play the game (we can get that from youtube, which is how i'm sure xboxer's learned from JP players). Anyways to sum up what most other posters said, there is an impasse. New players want the opportunities to learn and discover the game mechanics and 'older?' players want to fly through all the encounters they have done several times before on their other classes (because they never had to be carried due to starting the game out as a fresh start and got a chance to learn for themselves). While I am sure wanting to be carried for some players does exist, i am sure its the lesser of two evils some people are forced to endure because the more experienced players don't want them to learn game mechanics (because that will take too long for their game play experience to be worthwhile) so they blaze through the content and its sometimes over before new players even get to see some boss mechanics. Unless they break up cross play, which i don't see ever happening. The way the game is designed, as long as you meet the level requirement you can try the content (by the way this system existed before older players (who enjoyed it when they could benefit from it) had a problem with it. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. On a more positive note, think of it as a catch up mechanic for the new players. I mean remember you got the game first, the head start that enabled you to climb up on that high horse of yours. And now you complain that pc players who had to wait for their version should not be able to engage in the same content that you are able to because they dont have equal experience or gear as good as yours. Unless you are worried that the newer pc players will eventually surpass your skills or gear?... if you aren't then i do not see the problem. When episode 4 drops everyone will finally be on more equal playing field (more or less).

I don't agree that crossplay is the issue here. It comes down to the bugged HP values in SH. Until they get that fixed there will always be a struggle with certain groups. If you get lucky you can still clear SHUQ's with some low 50's on falz luther, but all the people who would help dish out the most damage at 70+ are now in Extreme so SH is "SHtuck with the SHort end of the ScHtick"

Until they fix the SH HP values... stick to VH or Extreme for boss content if you want to avoid the chance of failing. I myself will stick through and happily accept defeat if that is what will happen... however over 110+ hours of playtime I've only encountered a failed SH Luther once.

@Xurai said in Super Hard content,get in it when you have the damn gear.:

I don't agree that crossplay is the issue here. It comes down to the bugged HP values in SH. Until they get that fixed there will always be a struggle with certain groups. If you get lucky you can still clear SHUQ's with some low 50's on falz luther, but all the people who would help dish out the most damage at 70+ are now in Extreme so SH is "SHtuck with the SHort end of the ScHtick"

Until they fix the SH HP values... stick to VH or Extreme for boss content if you want to avoid the chance of failing. I myself will stick through and happily accept defeat if that is what will happen... however over 110+ hours of playtime I've only encountered a failed SH Luther once.

I don't think SH values are bugged for most part. It was a choice by Sega to increase SH level to 75, I assume specifically so Xbox release has content with proper HP, as otherwise SH HP is too close to VH. It seems that in some parts having SH Luther get more HP than XH was an oversight with their method of scaling instead of handpicking the values, which is also why for minor enemies it works just fine, it's just that level 80 Luther had handpicked HP instead of autoscaled one. In other words I want to say that simply the "correct" SH values from JP version would be greatly improper for Xbox release as they were tailored for EP2 player strength, while in most part we're at EP6 player strength and with Nemesis arrival also end of EP4 gear strength. Some cases like Luther could use a simple 20% reduction to HP, but what's more important than XH in NA has just too little HP as values were taken straight from Japanese XH tailored for EP3 times.

The unfairly hard SH mode people are facing is overblown. Nox weapons at +10 really are enough and the main barrier is simple learning process and having to deal with absolutely wrong skill tree and subclass. XH Magatsu in NA for example with much less skilled playerbase (because let's not kid ourselves we had people playing for years then and nowadays the most experienced players are JP transplants and people from Xbox beta)I have yet to see pass the first gate, but in JP the first weeks you could actually see the quest fail and him be stopped around the last gate. That's about how much more tools and pure damage players have and I am more dreading just how the rest of content we will get while catching up to JP will be balanced. Players only really get better at the game with the passing of time so I think many people will understand that the HP is undertuned only after some time. On the other hand SH being kinda beefier is a problem that you will forget when you run it with an alt and notice that with some proper skill trees and some cursory knowledge of which PAs do damage the HP is actually fine.

@Hooonter I don't care how they managed to screw up the HP, what I do care about is at least making Extremely Hard more difficult than Super Hard... as it should be. Whether that is buffing the Extreme difficulty mobs or nerfing the SH mobs, just get it done and there will be more consistency across the board.

I have just done the SHLuther quest for the first time and beat it. Deaths weren't bad imo. Me and some others did some top tier heals and everything so that was fine but we had 3 mins to spare. It was fun but fucking crazy how long it took 27 minutes to down him.

IMO, it's not even hard once you get his patterns down packed, ducking and diving it's the fact you see the same shit 50 times because he's just an HP sponge so you're just going through the motions time and time again so it got less fun past 15 mins lol. Not really worth doing imo and rather stick with VH just because I could be done in 5 minutes and go on about my day as the drops weren't nothing to write home about to the time taken to finish it.

@Jr Yes, but this is why I think they need to "fix" SH hp issues. VH is killed in 5 mins... EH is killed in 5 mins... yet SH takes 20+ mins?

Here's the thing...

A week or two ago, ALL of my missions required me to do everything on Super Hard.
Including a do 10 urgent quests tier mission.

So what am I to expect when I'm in the low 50's and the game is telling me to do that difficulty...
And up until Luthor, every expedition I had gone on had been rather cakewalk easy.

Plus, according to some community testing, the Super Hard versions of the urgent quest bosses have HP totals vastly inflated compared to where they should be.
https://forum.pso2.com/topic/4526/extremely-hard-boss-hp-lower-than-super-hard/9

@Xurai When i first hit level 45 or w/e you get the mission for AQ i was like oh ok great more easier exp ill do that. I soon realized there was a massive ramp up from VH to AQ since it was the first mission i ever had failed at lv45. I decided then i would wait till at least till level 55 to even try it again (since it does say recommended for lv56 and up) and I am not even thinking of SH or EX. My point being I do not think the game prepared me for the advancement from Normal>Hard>Very Hard to the massive jump from VH to AQ. So I could understand the same shock for new players, who think they were able to do UQ at the easier levels so SHUQ should not be much different. And while I may advocate for new players trying everything they can, I myself (while i meet the level requirement) have never tried SHUQ. I just feel that I would be cheating myself before first doing the complete rotations of all the missions/explorations/story quests etc from N>H>VH. By that time i would at least be on the upper end of the level requirement for AQ/SQ because after all (like a lot of people) I am still very new to the game (3wks?) and I want to experience it first before rushing to endgame content.

No, the game really doesn't do the best job of easing you into certain content, however.. even in super hard you can cruise through most mobs fine until you get hit by one baddie that happens to one shot you. There's not a lot of in between from "cakewalk to difficult", you just learn as you go, mastering mechanics and dodging is your best friend here.

Gear is still important don't get me wrong, but the HP values getting fixed should be of utmost importance.

Hell, I remember reading complaints about gear on a forum or reddit somewhere in regards to SH luthor back then...

Checked for new Katanas on player shops, and the ones higher rarity than the one I already owned I didn't meet the stat requirements for yet.
So I figured the Katana I had grinded up should have been sufficient.

@Morgothryuzaki said in Super Hard content,get in it when you have the damn gear.:

@Pulptenks Actually,there is.

Final Fantasy XIV has a thing called Item Level. Its basically the general level of the gear. It wouldn't cost SEGA anything to implement such a system. It would it so people who have the minimum required gear to get in and anyone who doesn't,can't. Wouldn't guarantee a success,but iot would at the very least guarantee that no one who isn't up to the task sneak in.

I'm sorry for hopping into this very late, but it would actually cost quite a bit to implement. You need to set a team that establishes values for every piece of gear and every augment adding a variable to it. But then you also need to add in the benefits towards the class you are in. If you have a 8 slot 180+ tech unit, it's going to give 0 benefit towards a ranger. Also it would need to compute in set bonuses and enhancement levels on top of it. So now you have the issue of players just slapping on random gear because it has a high score vs someone that is augmented properly with a "lower gear score". To undertake such a system with such variety in gear setup alone would be a tremendous nightmare.

@Morgothryuzaki said in Super Hard content,get in it when you have the damn gear.:

@Macmaxi Its about basic respect actually. Especially when its an instance that only happens once in a while and that you cannot even queue again for. You enjoy failing? good for you. I enjoy not wasting almost an entire hour of my time when i could have been doing something that actually led to something.

I already know what you're going to say. BUT WHAT ABOUT THEIR FUN. You mean the same exact fun they can have by going to a difficulty tailored to what they can handle?

I hope you realize that if the game developers set the entry requirements as level 50, then it was designed to be completed at level 50. Now why they didn't put some gear requirement in (like other MMO's have done) so that people can't just join for a carry.

This is the forever PUG (Pick up Group) problem. How do you get people who are skillful, not just "I wanna be carried". The game provides exactly two controls for this. A minimum level requirement in creating the instance, and a password for creating a party. There's a reason why these UQ's have a 10 minute lead time.

That said, don't expect people to be good at the game for something that's only been out for two weeks, and nearly every PC player has had to reinstall the game two or three times.

To be honest, I've yet seen anyone bitch about anybodies gear except for this Luther quest. I don't think gear is really the issue, it's the HP vaules are wrong. This 30 min run would be better if it was for EH or something where the drops warrant the time spent. Nothing in this game so far seems to pose any problems besides that. Right now, you're pushing it being 50 to do this content. I was level 65 SU doing it though. They probably flipped the HP's wrong.

On the other hand, some folks did want the game "harder". Direct them to overtuned sponge man lmao.

@ondje I really don't see why you're assuming I am on Xbox,but okay lmao.