Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?

The anticheat already np errors you if you have something like ACT open, a mistake I always make logging off from raiding, but that alone should tell you their stance on dps parsers.

@Zizel said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Zipzo Well, a GM has already confirmed that using them is against the TOS and would likely result in a ban. I understand why you want to use it to improve yourself so in the end the risk is yours to take.

I actually did not know they were banned in JP until reading this thread truthfully.

I might be blind. But i'm reading the ToS over and over right now and i don't see anything regarding a parser being "Against the ToS". So i call BS until someone can post the exact ToS line that states otherwise. I see some certain lines on the ToS that revolve around 3rd party programs but they list specifically what it can't do. Parsers don't fall into it.

Like i said i might be blind but reading this ToS, i can't find an exact line that would render a simple parser "Against the ToS".

It falls under Third-Party program, everyone will tell you this, it has always been the same with these. Generally you wont be banned for it unless you get player reports, in a way PSO2 saves a damage log unencrypted in your profile folder already, but ACT writes is own logs for better compatibility with the application.

If a GM wants to ban you for it, let it be through player reports or otherwise, he can probably do that and nobody will stop / revert that, but realistically it's unlikely anything is ever going to happen to you if you never talk in chat about it.

That being said, there is the possibility that certain structures of the application have a sophisticated system for sniffing out parsers, how likely you think SEGA / Microsoft implemented something like that, i leave up to your judgement.

@Macmaxi said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

It falls under Third-Party program, everyone will tell you this, it has always been the same with these. Generally you wont be banned for it unless you get player reports, in a way PSO2 saves a damage log unencrypted in your profile folder already, but ACT writes is own logs for better compatibility with the application.

If a GM wants to ban you for it, let it be through player reports or otherwise, he can probably do that and nobody will stop / revert that, but realistically it's unlikely anything is ever going to happen to you if you never talk in chat about it.

That being said, there is the possibility that certain structures of the application have a sophisticated system for sniffing out parsers, how likely you think SEGA / Microsoft implemented something like that, i leave up to your judgement.

Ok but, what line states that in the ToS? Is it this one? Just for clarifying.

Attempt to access or search the Services or Collective Content or download Collective Content from the Services through the use of any engine, software, tool, agent, device or mechanism (including spiders, robots, crawlers, data mining tools or the like) other than the software and/or search agents provided by SEGA or other generally available third party web browsers;.?

Is this the right one that i would be directed to?

So as it is said in the ToS - "Collective Content" means, collectively, SEGA Content and User Content. "SEGA Content" means Content that SEGA makes available through the Services, including any Content licensed from a third party and Virtual Goods and Virtual Currency (defined below), but excluding User Content. "User Content" means Content that a User posts, uploads, publishes, submits or transmits to be made available through the Services.

As far as i see, since ACT writes its own logs and doesn't change anything or tamper with anything(as far as i know), it's not violating anything, therefore, it shouldn't be "Illegal". I just would like to know the actual truth and reasoning as to why parsers aren't allowed. And i don't want to hear the usual "It's used as harassment".

Also if we are going to use your logic of "It falls under 3rd party program" then people who are using the PSO2 Tweaker would be banned left and right, but they aren't.

You don't understand what a ToS is practically used for. It's to cover company's asses against any kind of stuff, no company has the time and money to enforce their ToS by the book 24/7, nor would it do them any good.

https://i.imgur.com/tj8iura.png

This is what most people are referring to, and while yes it doesn't explicity say parsing, because it doesn't generate any currency or interact with gameplay, but that last point is formulated very vague on purpose to make sure they can ban you for any kind of reason.

Speaking of any kind of reason, every service you register to at the end says, they can ban your account for any reason or even without any reason either, so to put it plainly they don't have to explain shit. If a GM bans you because he thinks you might be trouble, then you are getting banned and unless the backlash is big enough that will be the end of it.

Nobody here says you will get banned 100% or never get banned at all using a parser, we can only give vague hints, just like the ToS is vague on this. And believe me any official source would rather not go through the trouble of allowing this and just say "don't use one".

@Lvost1990X

You agree not to do any of the following:

  • to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software used to provide the Services or Collective Content;

Parser can be put under this point rather easily. I don't know if it reads any profile things, or intercepts some data sent to you that's used to display other players' numbers, but generally most of ways to get that damage fall under this point.

  • Attempt to access or search the Services or Collective Content or download Collective Content from the Services through the use of any engine, software, tool, agent, device or mechanism (including spiders, robots, crawlers, data mining tools or the like) other than the software and/or search agents provided by SEGA or other generally available third party web browsers;

Is another fun point under which parser could fall. I wonder about the spiders thing though.

@Hooonter said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Lvost1990X

You agree not to do any of the following:

  • to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software used to provide the Services or Collective Content;

Parser can be put under this point rather easily. I don't know if it reads any profile things, or intercepts some data sent to you that's used to display other players' numbers, but generally most of ways to get that damage fall under this point.

  • Attempt to access or search the Services or Collective Content or download Collective Content from the Services through the use of any engine, software, tool, agent, device or mechanism (including spiders, robots, crawlers, data mining tools or the like) other than the software and/or search agents provided by SEGA or other generally available third party web browsers;

Is another fun point under which parser could fall. I wonder about the spiders thing though.

ACT is not deciphering, decompiling, disassembling or...reverse engineering any "Software".

@Lvost1990X

These damage numbers aren't meant to be available for the player. I don't know if it's Act doing the damage gathering or whether Act was only the part that displayed that, but the act of getting those numbers into readable format can be considered deciphering at the very least.

@Hooonter said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Lvost1990X

These damage numbers aren't meant to be available for the player. I don't know if it's Act doing the damage gathering or whether Act was only the part that displayed that, but the act of getting those numbers into readable format can be considered deciphering at the very least.

Considering ACT writes it's own logs. Also, did you know PSO2 Tweaker has a plug-in so that ACT can't be blocked? Either way. No reason for a parser to be blocked or illegal at all. It doesn't harm the game or do anything other than read damage logs. My main point of all this is just to figure out exactly why it's not allowed. While the ToS is vague in every way, there is loop holes.

@Lvost1990X said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Hooonter said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Lvost1990X

These damage numbers aren't meant to be available for the player. I don't know if it's Act doing the damage gathering or whether Act was only the part that displayed that, but the act of getting those numbers into readable format can be considered deciphering at the very least.

Considering ACT writes it's own logs. Also, did you know PSO2 Tweaker has a plug-in so that ACT can't be blocked? Either way. No reason for a parser to be blocked or illegal at all. It doesn't harm the game or do anything other than read damage logs. My main point of all this is just to figure out exactly why it's not allowed. While the ToS is vague in every way, there is loop holes.

The problem is it creates toxic environments which is why in FF square said don't talk about it and you're ok cause they didn't want people throwing shade at each other. There is no real need for it in a game like this. This is basically a 3rd person diablo style.

@Lvost1990X

Yeah ACT totally writes its own logs that are randomly correlated to some inside numbers in your client. At some point someone grabs Sega's data that they didn't mean to be seen. That's deciphering part. Or it could just be pinned under accessing Sega's services with third party tool they don't like.

@Remi said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Lvost1990X said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Hooonter said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Lvost1990X

These damage numbers aren't meant to be available for the player. I don't know if it's Act doing the damage gathering or whether Act was only the part that displayed that, but the act of getting those numbers into readable format can be considered deciphering at the very least.

Considering ACT writes it's own logs. Also, did you know PSO2 Tweaker has a plug-in so that ACT can't be blocked? Either way. No reason for a parser to be blocked or illegal at all. It doesn't harm the game or do anything other than read damage logs. My main point of all this is just to figure out exactly why it's not allowed. While the ToS is vague in every way, there is loop holes.

The problem is it creates toxic environments which is why in FF square said don't talk about it and you're ok cause they didn't want people throwing shade at each other. There is no real need for it in a game like this. This is basically a 3rd person diablo style.

I know there's no need. Not saying it needs one. I just don't see the reasoning behind them not being allowed and you can be banned over it but yet you have PSO2 Tweaker w/plugins as a 3rd party program which is considered alright? It's like double standards everywhere.

@Lvost1990X said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Remi said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Lvost1990X said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Hooonter said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Lvost1990X

These damage numbers aren't meant to be available for the player. I don't know if it's Act doing the damage gathering or whether Act was only the part that displayed that, but the act of getting those numbers into readable format can be considered deciphering at the very least.

Considering ACT writes it's own logs. Also, did you know PSO2 Tweaker has a plug-in so that ACT can't be blocked? Either way. No reason for a parser to be blocked or illegal at all. It doesn't harm the game or do anything other than read damage logs. My main point of all this is just to figure out exactly why it's not allowed. While the ToS is vague in every way, there is loop holes.

The problem is it creates toxic environments which is why in FF square said don't talk about it and you're ok cause they didn't want people throwing shade at each other. There is no real need for it in a game like this. This is basically a 3rd person diablo style.

I know there's no need. Not saying it needs one. I just don't see the reasoning behind them not being allowed and you can be banned over it but yet you have PSO2 Tweaker w/plugins as a 3rd party program which is considered alright? It's like double standards everywhere.

most people use tweaker for reshaders and stuff, and i mean final fantasy and most mmos are the same way. They are against but like wow was the only one to start implementing alot of those features to replace some mods.

There was never an official statement regarding tweaker if i recall correctly, i'm sure they know about it but they could probably also ban you for the usage of tweaker.

Has nothing to do with double standards, we aren't given any official answers for these things so you can just assume based on severity and how likely the tools you are using to hit a nerve with them.

As of right now Tweaker has been used for years in JP and for NA it only is used to launch and patch the game. I'm really sure they know about it and just don't care unless it was botting or adding other things