Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?

This game is toxic enough with its "you must play this way or not play at all" bullshit, let's not allow people to parse on top of that.

@Dri4974 Agreed damage parser will just lead to a pointless competition between players that will lead to people refusing to group with you if your not min-maxing everything and playing how others want you to play. Sure this mind set will happen either way damage parser or not but a damage parser will just make it worse.

Even the point system in the mining base defs are stupid in my opinion. I see people bragging about being top score like it even matters. An it especially stupid with how poorly designed the scoring system works were you only get points for landing the last hit and bosses are worth the same amount of points as the weakest mob as well as how easy it is to just be top tier in points from just picking up crystals. We don't need more reasons for this stupid behavior in this game we sadly have to many already.

I'll be content as long as there isn't a parser, probably one of the blessing I learnt from FF14 was the fact they noped those things, hated them in WoW. Just encourages elitism. I like to put a lot of effort in getting my playstyle right, but i'd rather do that on my own front rather than seeing how everyone else performs as well. Pleanty of information for me to read out there when it comes to that.

@Nerzarn said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

I'll be content as long as there isn't a parser, probably one of the blessing I learnt from FF14 was the fact they noped those things, hated them in WoW. Just encourages elitism. I like to put a lot of effort in getting my playstyle right, but i'd rather do that on my own front rather than seeing how everyone else performs as well. Pleanty of information for me to read out there when it comes to that.

FFXIV devs even said they are allowed you just can't talk in game about them

@Zipzo said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

This game has always lacked suitable methods to determine performance and contribution to your multi-parties other than vague guestimations based on content you are able to successfully complete solo or whatever other amibiguous benchmarks you can come up with.

A parser used to be widely used on JP version but eventually was not allowed.

What about for NA? I assume it would be the same but maybe not, who knows. Clarification on this?

I can't imagine needing a parser for this game. From memory no content actually required incredibly tight damage output to succeed. As long as people are geared appropriately it's pretty much a guaranteed win unless they're bad at dodging or whatever.

@Linkage-Ayexe said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Zipzo said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

This game has always lacked suitable methods to determine performance and contribution to your multi-parties other than vague guestimations based on content you are able to successfully complete solo or whatever other amibiguous benchmarks you can come up with.

A parser used to be widely used on JP version but eventually was not allowed.

What about for NA? I assume it would be the same but maybe not, who knows. Clarification on this?

I can't imagine needing a parser for this game. From memory no content actually required incredibly tight damage output to succeed. As long as people are geared appropriately it's pretty much a guaranteed win unless they're bad at dodging or whatever.

You'd be surprised at how many people i run across not geared enough and love to hug the floor in SH+. While i really do not care much about parser's in general, i do care about clearing content and not being held back by potatoes.

@Linkage-Ayexe said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Zipzo said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

This game has always lacked suitable methods to determine performance and contribution to your multi-parties other than vague guestimations based on content you are able to successfully complete solo or whatever other amibiguous benchmarks you can come up with.

A parser used to be widely used on JP version but eventually was not allowed.

What about for NA? I assume it would be the same but maybe not, who knows. Clarification on this?

I can't imagine needing a parser for this game. From memory no content actually required incredibly tight damage output to succeed. As long as people are geared appropriately it's pretty much a guaranteed win unless they're bad at dodging or whatever.

You're saying this, but when Ep4-6 come through, you'll be redacting that comment.

A big resounding no; please don't. 😞

I left World of Warcraft to get away from that toxic crap; community-based parsing and viewable damage meters/gear-scoring always escalates away from it's original intent of managing player-readiness into something much more malicious and is very often used in abusive ways against players.

I've watched this with my own eyes unfold over the years. The concept of community-based damage parsing took life as a addon tool in World of Warcraft's 2nd expansion: Wrath of the Lich King- around the time of the ICC Raid release in 2009, and while there have been a small handful of Korean and Japanese mmorpg's in the past that tracked player performance in battles before World of Warcraft; the damage tracking addons from WoW really fostered a new type of subculture of bullying and player toxicity.

There's a very good reason why MMORPG communities tend to frown on them these days, not because of what they do, but what type of culture it attracts in players that are drawn to heighten-competitive behaviors.

@Lvost1990X said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Macmaxi said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

It falls under Third-Party program, everyone will tell you this, it has always been the same with these. Generally you wont be banned for it unless you get player reports, in a way PSO2 saves a damage log unencrypted in your profile folder already, but ACT writes is own logs for better compatibility with the application.

If a GM wants to ban you for it, let it be through player reports or otherwise, he can probably do that and nobody will stop / revert that, but realistically it's unlikely anything is ever going to happen to you if you never talk in chat about it.

That being said, there is the possibility that certain structures of the application have a sophisticated system for sniffing out parsers, how likely you think SEGA / Microsoft implemented something like that, i leave up to your judgement.

Ok but, what line states that in the ToS? Is it this one? Just for clarifying.

Attempt to access or search the Services or Collective Content or download Collective Content from the Services through the use of any engine, software, tool, agent, device or mechanism (including spiders, robots, crawlers, data mining tools or the like) other than the software and/or search agents provided by SEGA or other generally available third party web browsers;.?

Is this the right one that i would be directed to?

So as it is said in the ToS - "Collective Content" means, collectively, SEGA Content and User Content. "SEGA Content" means Content that SEGA makes available through the Services, including any Content licensed from a third party and Virtual Goods and Virtual Currency (defined below), but excluding User Content. "User Content" means Content that a User posts, uploads, publishes, submits or transmits to be made available through the Services.

As far as i see, since ACT writes its own logs and doesn't change anything or tamper with anything(as far as i know), it's not violating anything, therefore, it shouldn't be "Illegal". I just would like to know the actual truth and reasoning as to why parsers aren't allowed. And i don't want to hear the usual "It's used as harassment".

Also if we are going to use your logic of "It falls under 3rd party program" then people who are using the PSO2 Tweaker would be banned left and right, but they aren't.

Technically, PSO2 Tweaker is in the grey area. Companies aren't allowed to endorse 3rd party unofficial programs. Even though the parser seems harmless, companies have to take a stance against it. They aren't officially supported and if someone had malicious intentions with a particular program, Sega would be held liable if they OK'd it. That's why they don't say anything unless it becomes a clear problem. It really isn't about the parser itself.

Currently the PSO2 Tweaker is in the grey area, but I imagine that stance could possibly change in the future. The creators of the program should know that as well. It is not official and will never be official. Laws regulate it. It's great that the PSO2 tweaker team has good intentions and fixed many issues players were having, but if it were the case that some other team made an unofficial launcher and a ton of people downloaded it only to find out it hijacked your computer to mine bitcoins, that'd be an entirely different scenario. If Sega OK'd 3rd party programs and it just so happens you downloaded a malicious program, they could be held liable and sued. Also typically that companies don't normally allow users to mod their clients for online games. It's just common sense. They really don't have the time to cherry pick and evaluate every 3rd party program like a parser or launcher that users make. It's why the automatic stance is no regardless if the program is harmless or not.

@2B said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Lvost1990X said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Macmaxi said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

It falls under Third-Party program, everyone will tell you this, it has always been the same with these. Generally you wont be banned for it unless you get player reports, in a way PSO2 saves a damage log unencrypted in your profile folder already, but ACT writes is own logs for better compatibility with the application.

If a GM wants to ban you for it, let it be through player reports or otherwise, he can probably do that and nobody will stop / revert that, but realistically it's unlikely anything is ever going to happen to you if you never talk in chat about it.

That being said, there is the possibility that certain structures of the application have a sophisticated system for sniffing out parsers, how likely you think SEGA / Microsoft implemented something like that, i leave up to your judgement.

Ok but, what line states that in the ToS? Is it this one? Just for clarifying.

Attempt to access or search the Services or Collective Content or download Collective Content from the Services through the use of any engine, software, tool, agent, device or mechanism (including spiders, robots, crawlers, data mining tools or the like) other than the software and/or search agents provided by SEGA or other generally available third party web browsers;.?

Is this the right one that i would be directed to?

So as it is said in the ToS - "Collective Content" means, collectively, SEGA Content and User Content. "SEGA Content" means Content that SEGA makes available through the Services, including any Content licensed from a third party and Virtual Goods and Virtual Currency (defined below), but excluding User Content. "User Content" means Content that a User posts, uploads, publishes, submits or transmits to be made available through the Services.

As far as i see, since ACT writes its own logs and doesn't change anything or tamper with anything(as far as i know), it's not violating anything, therefore, it shouldn't be "Illegal". I just would like to know the actual truth and reasoning as to why parsers aren't allowed. And i don't want to hear the usual "It's used as harassment".

Also if we are going to use your logic of "It falls under 3rd party program" then people who are using the PSO2 Tweaker would be banned left and right, but they aren't.

It's why the automatic stance is no regardless if the program is harmless or not.

Apparently it isn't compared to what a certain GM posted in another thread. I have to find it. He/She was asked if the PSO2 Tweaker was allowed and the GM replied to something along the lines of "I can't give an answer on that".

*Update - That GM removed their own post. Funny.

@Lvost1990X said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@2B said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Lvost1990X said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Macmaxi said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

It falls under Third-Party program, everyone will tell you this, it has always been the same with these. Generally you wont be banned for it unless you get player reports, in a way PSO2 saves a damage log unencrypted in your profile folder already, but ACT writes is own logs for better compatibility with the application.

If a GM wants to ban you for it, let it be through player reports or otherwise, he can probably do that and nobody will stop / revert that, but realistically it's unlikely anything is ever going to happen to you if you never talk in chat about it.

That being said, there is the possibility that certain structures of the application have a sophisticated system for sniffing out parsers, how likely you think SEGA / Microsoft implemented something like that, i leave up to your judgement.

Ok but, what line states that in the ToS? Is it this one? Just for clarifying.

Attempt to access or search the Services or Collective Content or download Collective Content from the Services through the use of any engine, software, tool, agent, device or mechanism (including spiders, robots, crawlers, data mining tools or the like) other than the software and/or search agents provided by SEGA or other generally available third party web browsers;.?

Is this the right one that i would be directed to?

So as it is said in the ToS - "Collective Content" means, collectively, SEGA Content and User Content. "SEGA Content" means Content that SEGA makes available through the Services, including any Content licensed from a third party and Virtual Goods and Virtual Currency (defined below), but excluding User Content. "User Content" means Content that a User posts, uploads, publishes, submits or transmits to be made available through the Services.

As far as i see, since ACT writes its own logs and doesn't change anything or tamper with anything(as far as i know), it's not violating anything, therefore, it shouldn't be "Illegal". I just would like to know the actual truth and reasoning as to why parsers aren't allowed. And i don't want to hear the usual "It's used as harassment".

Also if we are going to use your logic of "It falls under 3rd party program" then people who are using the PSO2 Tweaker would be banned left and right, but they aren't.

It's why the automatic stance is no regardless if the program is harmless or not.

Apparently it isn't compared to what a certain GM posted in another thread. I have to find it. He/She was asked if the PSO2 Tweaker was allowed and the GM replied to something along the lines of "I can't give an answer on that".

*Update - That GM removed their own post. Funny.

I'm not even surprised, and I feel bad for the GMs. They probably were told to delete it since Tweaker is saving their asses right now. Most people have been able to play due to the ARKS Layer team correcting the mistakes Microsoft and SEGA have slowly been fixing in regards to the MS Store downloads s and other issues.

There's still some people that can't play, but it seems to have quiet down compared to launch.

@Neoyoshi Maybe because WoW as a whole IS TOXIC? I have bene playing FFXIV since 2014 and I have NEVER seen bullying with item level. NEVER.

@Morgothryuzaki said in Can we get confirmation on whether damage parsers would be OK or not?:

@Neoyoshi Maybe because WoW as a whole IS TOXIC? I have bene playing FFXIV since 2014 and I have NEVER seen bullying with item level. NEVER.

Same. Long time FFXIV player. While i have never seen any bullying there is some very strict Party Finder's that are sometimes listed in terms of iLvl and DPS. Atleast on my server, Diabolos.

@Lvost1990X The ONLY toxicity you're going to see in XIV,comes form Balmung. And I believe gilgamesh.

Sure, have it your way. I left ffxiv because of the toxicity created by fflogs shitters, i suppose i envy you in the regard that you never had to deal with these people. If this now becomes a thing in PSO2, which let's be honest it's where this is heading, then i guess i'm just not supposed to play on NA.

Only other way i could express my opinions would end up in me getting rude and i prefer to just accept my loss here.