Seldom seen a more un-user friendly experience.

Some people will whine about anything.

Waaaahhhh I can't figure out these menus waaahhhhh make the game easier for me waaahhhhhh

@Bippzy You're asking far too much out of the general audiences I think.

it becomes second nature really quickly he'll learn it sooner or later

I mean FFXIV 2.0 came out in 2013 and it's menus and UI is way more neater and cleaner than this game. It's pretty bad but just takes time to get use to.

@ Bippzy and Quid (and Pairamedic, hopefully you aren't one of the "essential workers here, but if you are, thank you thank you thank you"): Thanks for constructive feedback. Truly, I appreciate it.

Everyone else, once again dismissing this as me being an MMO newbie: Nope, not at all. I'm saying old MMOs did this a hundred times better in the same, or earlier, timeframe.

I'm also not a he, but again, quibbles. The "But he is right" comments can be turned right around on the ones defending a bad system, so ... again, not constructive. Other games from the same or earlier era have gotten this right.

Yeah the game could be better in that aspect.

However. Compared to the original.. lol

Really enjoying the gameplay but the menu system is downright atrocious for a PC game. There are so many clicks required to do relatively simple tasks due to their over-reliance on menus within menus within menus. It really shouldn't take 7 clicks to feed your mag one time. You shouldn't need to bring up a 5 page explanation on every single sub-menu the first time it is opened. That's a mark of it being over-designed and unintuitive.

It would be so much simpler if they combined a lot of the sub-menus into a single one and displayed more information on a single menu. I guess it could be a cultural aspect where the Japanese audience prefers extremely precise menus within menus at the expense of extra clicks so long as you have as little on the screen as possible. Although it's more likely due to it being designed to work on the Vita as well where screen space is more scarce.

Regardless, they really should have streamlined the menu system for the PC port in order to make it more appealing to the western audience especially since the cost would have been absolutely trivial compared to the cost of fully translating and re-voicing it in English. Kind of baffled in general that they clearly spent quite a bit localizing it yet are doing things like waiting 2 weeks after release to address game-breaking issues preventing large amounts of players from even downloading the game, or providing an official fix for the insane lobby lag that afflicts anyone who doesn't manually modify the exe files to bypass the launcher (which the vast majority of the playerbase won't know about.)

@Kantose said in Seldom seen a more un-user friendly experience.:

Really enjoying the gameplay but the menu system is downright atrocious for a PC game. There are so many clicks required to do relatively simple tasks due to their over-reliance on menus within menus within menus. It really shouldn't take 7 clicks to feed your mag one time. You shouldn't need to bring up a 5 page explanation on every single sub-menu the first time it is opened. That's a mark of it being over-designed and unintuitive.

It would be so much simpler if they combined a lot of the sub-menus into a single one and displayed more information on a single menu. I guess it could be a cultural aspect where the Japanese audience prefers extremely precise menus within menus at the expense of extra clicks so long as you have as little on the screen as possible. Although it's more likely due to it being designed to work on the Vita as well where screen space is more scarce.

Regardless, they really should have streamlined the menu system for the PC port in order to make it more appealing to the western audience especially since the cost would have been absolutely trivial compared to the cost of fully translating and re-voicing it in English. Kind of baffled in general that they clearly spent quite a bit localizing it yet are doing things like waiting 2 weeks after release to address game-breaking issues preventing large amounts of players from even downloading the game, or providing an official fix for the insane lobby lag that afflicts anyone who doesn't manually modify the exe files to bypass the launcher (which the vast majority of the playerbase won't know about.)

Different teams. Hell I would bet the localization was done by a third party company.

As for the gui. Yes it could be hell of a lot better. How it came to be is from stacking new feature on new feature. Look at any mmo and you will find things like.. a dozen new npcs, a dozen new buildings, consoles, ect that you have to go to because that new feature got split off into it's own new thing.

And I think redoing the gui would require much, much more work than you think. This is built likely on some in house engine, probably way older than the game itself, well before modern game engines like Unity made things simple for devs.

@Rusey21 You do realize that I didn't 'dismiss you' entirely,I even went out of my way to detail each and every single points of yours. I provided explanations on why it was a you thing and not a pure fact. You however dismissed it all and of course only accept the answers that goes towards your own point of view lmfao.

@DistortedAura1 I have been saying that for idk how long in this damn post. It takes far more than just 3 seconds of work to redo those menus,because it would affect the Japanese players as well. They would have to shut down the game until its redone.

@Morgothryuzaki It wouldn't require the game to be shutdown, and it wouldn't have to effect the japanese players but it would be expensive and complicated to have two versions of the game that work differently exist. All the coding for menus would have to be redone though and that would be far, far more complicated than most would think.

@DistortedAura1 Oh of course they are different teams involved, and I agree it is highly likely a third party they hired to due the localization. I was simply speaking of the cost to them they incurred by deciding to do the localization. If you look at the credits you can see they hired quite a lot of prolific voice actors to do a lot of voice work which would not have been cheap in addition to the enormous quantity of written dialogue so this is not an insignificant investment by any means.

You're right that they use an in-house engine and we of course do not know how hard it would be to work in, but if they are able to constantly add onto it so easily as you point out when they add more and more features, the opposite would surely be possible to prune it. Now it's likely not an insignificant amount of work and it does mean they would have two versions to support (which is why many games try to have a single one across platforms). I just wish they'd have used this opportunity to clean up the very very outdated UI for the PC version as I'm sure it drives away a lot of users before they get a chance to fall in love with the gameplay.

@Morgothryuzaki said in Seldom seen a more un-user friendly experience.:

They would have to shut down the game until its redone.

That's... not how game development works lol

@DistortedAura1 Fair enough,but really it isn't worth it or even necessary imo

@Kantose said in Seldom seen a more un-user friendly experience.:

@DistortedAura1 Oh of course they are different teams involved, and I agree it is highly likely a third party they hired to due the localization. I was simply speaking of the cost to them they incurred by deciding to do the localization. If you look at the credits you can see they hired quite a lot of prolific voice actors to do a lot of voice work which would not have been cheap in addition to the enormous quantity of written dialogue so this is not an insignificant investment by any means.

You're right that they use an in-house engine and we of course do not know how hard it would be to work in, but if they are able to constantly add onto it so easily as you point out when they add more and more features, the opposite would surely be possible to prune it. Now it's likely not an insignificant amount of work and it does mean they would have two versions to support (which is why many games try to have a single one across platforms). I just wish they'd have used this opportunity to clean up the very very outdated UI for the PC version as I'm sure it drives away a lot of users before they get a chance to fall in love with the gameplay.

Here is a thought.

Build a lego tower. Add some pieces to the top of it. Now Rebuild the tower with less pieces without taking the tower apart. It's not a perfect example but I think it gets the point across. Redoing the graphics for the menus is EASY. Digging into a ton of old code written by someone else that may or may not be commented and redirecting functions is going to be a complex and long job. That no one in administration will consider cost effective.

@DistortedAura1 said in Seldom seen a more un-user friendly experience.:

Build a lego tower. Add some pieces to the top of it. Now Rebuild the tower with less pieces without taking the tower apart. It's not a perfect example but I think it gets the point across.

That's unfortunately not a good analogy for coding. Unless they are completely inexperienced idiots (they aren't) they would have designed the UI system using basic data structures that they could modify the number of elements within it. Since neither of us is privy to the details of their specific engine we can't say how hard changing the location of function calls would be. Given that SEGA would not have been totally inexperienced when they wrote their inhouse engine I find it pretty unlikely they would have designed it to be completely infeasible to modify.